Warning: this is not a 'Christmas Movie'

Hmmm ... I haven't seen "The Apostle" so don't know about that. I'm guessing it may be kind of like "Elmer Gantry"?

As far as the movie not striking a mixed group as anti-Catholic ... from what you said elsewhere, though, I'm not sure that your group was very mixed, really, was it? Sounds like all in your group were perhaps Protestant? Not saying that they weren't good folks ... I'm sure you and all at the movie were wonderful persons. But I don't believe from what you said that any Catholics were there, were there?

You'll notice from Catholics on this board ... and at other sites if you check them out ... that Catholics react to this movie almost 100% as an anti-Catholic movie. And please believe me ... I don't "look for" anti-Catholicism anywhere, and was shocked to find it in this movie. I think that's true for far and away most folks. But when we walk into a movie and have things that we Catholics consider very precious and very important, smeared relentlessly throughout a movie, I don't think it's at all unusual for us to respond with something less than enthusiasm.

You can check other threads on this board and elsewhere for more details, if interested, but just to take a few examples of things that we Catholics might look at a bit differently from Protestants: Hiram mentioned a few things ... here are a few more:

* Betrayal of confidentiality in the Confessional. Catholics look at Confession as being a Sacrament, and what Catholics call the Seal of the Confessional is considered inviolate. It's very hard, I'm sure, for a Protestant to see how deeply a Catholic might feel about a priest committing a desecration of such horror ... and then have the movie treat the whole thing as a perfectly natural way for a Catholic priest to pursue a romantic interest ... which by the way Catholics don't consider exactly a positive thing in a celibate priest anyway. That whole thing has been enormously painful for Cathollics; Protestants generally dismiss it.

* Priests desecrating Mass ... such as the violent argument between priests in the middle of Mass that Hiram mentioned, and even worse, spilling the Blood of Christ over the Altar. Protestants naturally don't consider a chalice spilling over an altar to be a "big deal." Catholics, believe me, do consider this a "big deal." A very big deal. Compare (say) for a Protestant perhaps a scene of someone defecating on a King James Bible. That's an image that (honestly) disgusts and horrifies me. Maybe a desecration of what Protestants consider the Word of God would be considered a strong negative for Protestants as well?

* Every single reference to Catholicism ... of which there are many ... is negative. Every one. No exception. Hey I and others talked about this quite a bit ... a whole movie coudln't find anthing good to say about anything at all Catholic. If Catholicism was just incidental, if the real focus of the movie was "other things," then how did they manage to paint every single reference to anything remotely Catholic as 100% negative?

* All "progress" in the movie just happens to involve Catholics becoming less Catholic and more ... ahem ... Protestant. There's no suggestion that a Protestant just might have problems as well as Catholics; and no suggestion, in fact, that people in general just might have problems. No: only Catholics, and only to the extent that they are Catholic. Really, really strange way of looking at anything, I would think, but there it is in Noelle.

Now looking at the above, I think I could see how a Protestant audience ... even a well-meaning, not consciously anti-Catholic audience ... might not find anything strongly objectionable. For that matter I'm guessing that say in Nazi Germany a play in which Jews were depicted as greedy and hateful might seem fairly mild as comments on Jews go. Such depictions migh "go over the head" of the audience ... if they're really sort of used to seeing Jews in that way.

But now suppose I as a Catholic went to a movie and everything negative depicted just happened to be Protestant; things important to a Protestant were desecrated (say a scene of someone defecating on a King James Bible?); everyone seems to "get better" after trashing a Baptist Church and becoming Nice Catholics. How would I react to such a movie?

I wish honestly I could say that I'd react with the same horror I react to Noelle with. But I'm Catholic ... and seeing an anti-Protestant movie might not rouse the same feelings, I have to admit, as it might in a Protestant. Honestly I'm ashamed to say that but it's true.

But even so ... I'm aware I'd feel very uncomfortable. And after prayerfully reflecting I hope I would remember that bigotry is bigotry is bigotry.

And I hope that, after prayerfully reflecting, I'd refuse any praise for a work of anti-Protestant bigotry; or a work of anti-Semitic bigotry; or anti-anything bigotry.

We can certainly have honest disagreements as Catholics and Protestants. But something like Noelle ... that descends into what it descends into ... goes way over the line from reasoned and respectful disagreement into sheer trashing of a whole class of people. That's sheer prejudice.

Doesn't (thank God) happen much these days in film. I don't know when I've seen it at all, in fact, in any film of the past half century anyway. But ... it happened in this case. Horrible. But it happened. And deserves (frankly) our condemnation, in my opinion.

Having said all this, Frosty, I want to say as strongly as I can that I don't view you yourself as being anti-Catholic. I believe you and have no doubt that no one in your audience actually intended to view and approve of an anti-Catholic film. There were other good things in the movie; even I enjoyed some aspects of it. Your own good will, and that of the others who watched this movie with you, is not in question at all, as far as I can see.

Still, I would like to very respectfully ask that you don't take my word for it but check out other sites and other conversations with Catholics who were deeply hurt by the prejudice in this movie. Not only Catholics deserve better ... we all, Catholics, Protestants, Jews, Blacks, Whites, all of us, deserve better than a movie that trashes a whole class of people simply because of their religious beliefs or race or color.

But now you listed on another post a whole wonderful, wonderful list of Christmas movies. Most I've seen but a few I've just heard of ... and I really appreciate you bringing them up, I think I'll try to find them and enjoy them with family and friends. There really are a lot of good, positive movies that deal with the real difficulties we all face and which bring a message of hope and good will. What did the Angel say at Christmas? "Peace on earth and good will toward all." There are some truly wonderful, wonderful movies around that celebrate peace and good will indeed.

All good wishes ... and I hope you and yours have a wonderful Christmas season.

Charles Delacroix