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Looking for a good Christmas movie? Sorry this isn't one.

posted 15 years ago by cdelacroix1
10 replies | jump to latest

Hi, Folks,

Historically I've done a lot of posting on IMDb discussion boards and elsewhere. And honestly I almost never bother to post on a board for a movie I don't like. Life's too short to bother with movies you don't like, IMHO.

I make an exception in this case just because it's approaching Christmas Season and last Christmas I made the honest mistake of going to see Noelle and thinking it was about Noel, that is, Christmas.

Well I was wrong. I happen to be Catholic, and found a movie that routinely stooped to genuinely trashy anti-Catholic bigotry repeatedly. I'm not kidding. If that sounds like a shock, believe me, I was shocked, and a lot of folks were ... as you can see from this Discussion Board and on many many other movie watchers' sites. I'm not going into details now: you can check them out in other threads on this board and many other movie sites.

However, I'm guessing that what with the season coming up, someone might well do a search on IMDb and end up here, honestly thinking, as I did, that this might be a decent Christmas movie. Please believe me: it's not. And check out others if you wonder about that.

And now I'm going to make some alternative suggestions in case you'd like to check them out. I'll be posting this elsewhere, except without the diatribe against this particular nasty movie. But for anyone interested in real Christmas movies ... maybe this might be useful. And maybe someone else would like to chime in. I'm always up for a good Christmas movie.

First, though, I'm guessing that for most of us looking for Christmas movies, we're looking for something that is family-friendly, full of seasonal cheer and seasonal values, perhaps indeed in the face of adversity, but usually non-denominational, spreading "Good tidings to all".

To me the classics in that line would include of course movies like "It's a Wonderful Life", "Miracle on 34th Street", "White Christmas", and more.

More recent movies include things like "Elf", "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas" and "Family Man."

And now ... drum roll ... here are some upcoming movies slated for release over the next month or so that might be of interest. I have not seen any of these, just seen trailers and comments, and they all look appealing. To be sure I might be wrong, but doubt it: it's really very, very unusual to have a movie with a title like "Noelle" that's (well) anti-Noel, just as it's hard to imagine a movie titled "Hannukah" that's going to be anti-semitic. So based on "buzz" alone I'd guess these would be worth checking out. And no, I don't have any financial or other interest in any of these except I just like all kinds of movies and think these look cool:

"Un conte de Noël" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0993789
Sounds like an outstanding film. It's French, subtitled for us English-speakers, with Catherine Deneuve and the excellent Mathieu Amalric, who will be known to most from Quantum of Solace, in theatres now. The buzz about "Un conte de Noël" is very positive. Looks like a very quirky family story of reconciliation and hope at Christmas.

"Nothing Like the Holidays" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1151915/
Outstanding cast … John Leguizamo, Debra Lessing, Alfred Molina, Luis Guzman … in an urban Puerto Rican neighborhood in Chicago.

"Four Christmases" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0369436/
Vince Vaughn and Reese Witherspoon, what’s not to like? Comedy with heart, a very popular Christmas formula, and it's popular because it works.

There are a few "sorta kinda Chrismas/family movies" also slated for release:

"Seven Pounds" http://www.imdb.com/nowplaying/2008/12/
Will Smith is always outstanding, and brings a tale of hope and possibility to the screen

"Yes Man" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1068680/
I like Jim Carrey in everything and this looks like another good family flick.

"Bedtime Stories" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0960731/
This looks strange but good to me.

"Marley & Me" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0822832/
I am a sucker for any movie with a dog and lots of laughs.

OK that's my 2 bits on some really good seasonal flicks. Anything else you're looking forward to?

All good wishes to all for this upcoming season,

Charles Delacroix

[–] MarilynBr 15 years ago

I had to wait a year before I could see this movie, because it did not play in my area in 2007. But with the DVD out, I purchased it right away and have not been disappointed.

I found Noelle to be a movie full of redemption, hope, and faith.

I am not Catholic but I have a degree from a Catholic seminary, so I am very familiar with the beliefs and practices.

One of the issues for Charles seems to be the very real problems evidenced in the lives of both priests. I don't regard that as anti-catholic bigotry. Similar things have happened even in the seminary where I was a student. Dealing with real life problems does not make this movie anti-Catholic.

Even the scene where the blood of Christ is spilled on the altar is powerful in its imagery of redemption. It is only with the shedding of Christ's blood that we are forgiven. I see in the spilling of the blood on the altar the cleansing sacrifice of Christ.

Notice that the vision of his aborted child proclaiming that "all is forgiven" does not happen until after the blood of Christ is spilled. It is because of Christ's sacrifice that we are forgiven.

Because the Father had gone into the ministry because of guilt over his child that he had led to be aborted, in this case I even find it redemptive that he was set free to leave the priesthood and become a father to his wife's illegitimate child, a child that was not his own, but joyfully loved as his own. Instead of killing churches as an ecclesiastical "hitman," he was transformed and became an active and joyful participant in a parish that became healthy again, but this time he served as the father of a family rather than a father of a parish.

Hurrah! God did a wonderful work of forgiveness and healing for that man and also for that parish.

This movie is a message of hope that people need to see.

[–] cdelacroix1 15 years ago

Hi, Marilyn,

Thanks so much for your comments. However, it's not at all the problems in the lives of the priests that is an "issue" for me.

I think in some of the other posts we've talked about this ... and to me this is actually one of the good things in this movie.

The things that render the movie profoundly bigoted for me and for so many others has to do with many, many other things, that have been detailed in various places on this board and on many others. I'm tempted to restate all those things, but probably it's easiest just to recommend checking back through the other posts on this topic.

About the specific things you mentioned:

"Even the scene where the blood of Christ is spilled on the altar is powerful in its imagery of redemption. It is only with the shedding of Christ's blood that we are forgiven. I see in the spilling of the blood on the altar the cleansing sacrifice of Christ."

This is a specifically Protestant view. And my guess is that your view is shared by the movie's author, producer, etc, all of whom are anti-Catholic Protestants.

Catholics view the altar as a place in which the Blood of Christ is poured forth in what Catholics call Eucharist. Pouring the Blood of Christ out onto the altar or onto the ground is considered by Catholics a desecration of the Sacrament. It's rather as if (say) the Protestant author had written a scene in which a Jewish Torah is torn in two and a Jewish Menorah smashed, and then said, "this symbolizes the Freedom of Christ in the Cross smashing that Old Jewish Religion ..." etc. Protestants of a certain kind may find this inviting; Jews, and, I would hope, Catholics and most Protestants of another kind would find this to be an outrageous expression of anti-Semitic bigotry.

"[the priest] was transformed and became an active and joyful participant in a parish that became healthy again, but this time he served as the father of a family rather than a father of a parish."

Again, this is a specifically Protestant view. Catholic priests take vows of Celibacy. And Catholics view priests as Called to Orders in a Sacramental sense: that is, a priest is Called by Christ to become not the father of a parish but the minister of God's Fatherhood in a parish; and is Called to a matrimonial relationship with the Church of Christ. By forsaking his parish, and his Church; by denying his own Vows; he is in effect betraying the men and women of his parish, and Christ Himself.

Of course Protestants and Catholics are going to disagree about Catholicism. Both of your examples involve a specifically Protestant and anti-Catholic view of what is to Catholics something very human and very divine at the same time: Sacraments of the Church, whether of the Eucharist or of the Priesthood.

But the brutality of depiction of these things was to me and to others truly well over the line to say the least. As I and others have said elsewhere, one of the most challenging things about movies and books and the like that are anti-Semitic, anti-Catholic, bigoted against Blacks, etc, is that there are indeed good things even in the most prejudiced of works. The very human side of the priests in this movie, of the mother, and her child, and of others, is of course a wonderful gift. That the movie chooses to set all these against Catholicism and the Catholic Church is an important part of what makes this such a bigoted movie. Compare, for example, Hitler's Mein Kampf and Nazi propaganda against Jews: a key part of propaganda was that "the Jews" are "against humanity." That Catholics, and the Catholic Church, is consistently painted in exactly this way, in this film, is what singles it out as a truly bigoted work.

I don't say this lightly at all. I don't think I've ever said anything remotely like this about anything in contemporary culture known to me. Again, you can find these things canvassed in far more detail on this board and on other sites.

As for this particular thread, I was mostly focusing on the really dishonest marketing of this movie as a "Christmas movie". It's just plain old not that ... for the reasons already indicated in my original post.

A good "Christmas" movie would ordinarily indeed include messages of redemption and hope and forgiveness ... without "trashing" this or that religion or race. My humble vote would be to look elsewhere for warm depictions of redemption that don't include such a dark side as Noelle. There are some really good Christmas movies out in theatres and on DVD. How about enjoying those instead?

All good wishes,

Charles Delacroix

[–] FrostyHornyPie 15 years ago

I showed this movie at a movie night for those in my apartment complex and it was very well received. Now, I don't know the religious backgrounds of the eight of us who watched it...my own is Protestant, but I don't think I can be called Anti-Catholic. I am pretty sure that a couple of the viewers were Catholic, but am not positive. However, all of us seemed to consider it a very warm, human, and enjoyable movie.

Have yourselves a Merry Little Christmas

[–] cdelacroix1 15 years ago

Hi, Frosty,

Well ... I have very mixed feelings to say the least, but have to say on the whole I'm sorry you and your companions found a movie like this enjoyable.

Still, like I say, I have mixed feelings myself. I saw it a year ago and on the one hand very much agree that there was much about it that was, as you say, warm, human and enjoyable. Yet as a Catholic myself, I was deeply offended by the relentless anti-Catholicism of the movie.

I remember wondering what it would be like to be (say) a Jew in Hitler's Germany who saw a movie that was on the one hand full of good, positive, humane things, and yet which was at the very same time full of anti-Semitism. Would it be alright to enjoy the good while deploring the bad? Would it be OK to (say) enjoy a Leni Riefenstahl pro-Nazi movie ... and enjoy her undoubted dramatic skiills ... and overlook the Nazism in the movie?

For those forced to live in Nazi Germany I just don't know the answer. They had to survive and had to do what they had to do to survive after all.

For myself, though, I have to say that, knowing what we know today, I can't imagine seeing such a movie ... even if it's otherwise "warm, human and enjoyable" ... and yet trying to overlook the anti-Semitic bigotry in it.

Since you say you are a Protestant who is not anti-Catholic, I would sincerely ask you to consider not trying to spread such a movie around. There are so many good Christmas movies that don't get into anti-Catholic bigotry or bigotry of any kind for that matter.

Honestly bigotry is simply not too strong a word either ... I won't go into the grisly details, they are detailed elsewhere on this board by myself and other Catholics; and other places. But out of simple courtesy and respect for others, I would ask that you reconsider encouraging others to see such a film. As I say, there are so many others that are so very very good, aren't there?

I do wish you and your friends a merry Christmas and all good wishes.

Charles Delacroix

[–] FrostyHornyPie 15 years ago

Well, although this movie did go over well at my apartment complex, I doubt I'll be showing it again.

As far as anti-Catholic bigory, I just didn't feel it in this movie. It might have been there, but there was nothing in it that would turn me against the Catholic church.

However, it's not a movie I would likely show outsie of the Christmas season and the group here does have a preference for the classic Christmas films. If I'm still picking movies for the group next Christmas season, I'll show FOUR CHRISTMASES, MAYbe HOW ABOUT YOU, and possibly NOTHING LIKE THE HOLICAYS just to be including recent Christma releases along with the chestnuts (IT'S A WONDERFUL LIFE, MIRACLE ON 34TH STREET, A CHRISTMAS STORY, Bing's two Christmas movies, etc. I showed CHRISTMAS VACATION which didn't go over well and CHRISTMAS IN CONNECTICUT (with Barbara Stanwyck) which went over big last night. I have SCROOGED scheduled, but am wondering if it will flop as CHRISTMAS VACATION did, for this year along with (by request) THE NATIVITY STORY..probably for Christmas Eve. If I can, I'm going to sneak in the John Wayne western, 3 GODFATHERS, which has a Christmas theme although hardly any snowy type scenes for the season.

When Easter comes around, I hope to avoid THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST which I consider way too graphic but will show it if enough do want to see it again. I would much prefer showing films like the silent KING OF KINGS and BEN HUR along with THE ROBE and THE OTHER WISE MAN along with of course the secular EASTER PARADE for Fred Astaire fans. Actually, I'll probably end up showing about three of the more religious Easter movies during that week...not ssure of which three at this time.

Have yourselves a Merry Little Christmas! Ho! Ho! Ho!

[–] cdelacroix1 15 years ago

I replied some more about this movie in another post ... but just wanted to say thanks for the list of Christmas movies. Most I've seen but hey I love seeing movies like these again and again. "It's a Wonderful Life" is actually being brought to the big screen at a prominent multiplex here and I'm planning on seeing it for sure ... honestly I don't know if I've ever seen it except on video or on TV, so seeing it one a big screen will be a big treat, I'm sure.

You're right about the Easter movies. I do like Passion of the Christ very much though. Ben Hur absolutely rocks, so does The Robe and The Other Wise Man always has me in tears by the end. And hey Easter Parade is hard to beat ever IMHO.

All good wishes,

Charles Delacroix

[–] FrostyHornyPie 15 years ago

I do appreciate your understanding of why I will prefer not showing THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST Easter week although I will if it's specifically requested. I just don't feel it's one of the best Easter movies for senior citizens. You might have noticed that I didn't mention JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR or THE LAST TEMPTATION OF CHRIST in my list of Easter movies I favor. My failing to mention them wasn't accidental.

On the Christmas movies, I will mention 3 GODFTHERS again. It doesn't really have a Christmas feel, but it is appropriate. It deals with three bank robbers being chased by a posse just before Christmas who encounter a dying woman and her newborn infant. An offbeat and neglected film for John Wayne. There is a very loose three wise men analogy there. There was an earlier version of the movie before the John Wayne one, but unfortunately, as far as I know, isn't available on DVD.

Have yourselves a Merry Little Christmas! Ho! Ho! Ho!

[–] cdelacroix1 15 years ago

Yes indeed, I can understand why The Passion of the Christ might not be appropriate for all viewers, especially I would think for senior citizens. Same with Jesus Christ Superstar, although Andrew Lloyd Webber is hard to beat, IMHO. I like it and like the music especially but a "rock opera" would again probably not be very appealing to an older audience. Although tastes vary enormously among all generations to be sure. As for Last Temptation of Christ, I've never seen it. I started to read the book by Nikos Kazantzakis, didn't like it at all, and quit reading before I got very far. So I've never felt a desire to see the movie version. But now 3 Godfathers I think I've seen but it's been a long time ... I think I'll try to look that up. I like just about any John Wayne movie and you know I think there's really something special about Christmas Westerns. I'm going to try to find this one for sure.

Charles Delacroix

[–] FrostyHornyPie 15 years ago

BTW, 3 GODFATHERS also stars Pedro Armenderiz (a Mexican movie star who made a few Hollywood movies... there's an irony concerning this movie and his real life which I can't reveal without spoiling the movie) and Harry Carey, Jr., the son of one of the first great western actors).

Have yourselves a Merry Little Christmas! Ho! Ho! Ho!

[–] wendy-peterson 15 years ago

Marilyn, beautifully expressed opinion which I agree with. At the time of watching the movie, I was shocked to see the communion wine pour out (knowing that it signifies one of the most sacred things I know of - the Blood of Christ shed for love and forgiveness), but the way you explained it, makes the circumstances understandable and truly fitting for the story.

I think the movie makes more of a statement of human frailities overcome and God's love for them then any anti-Catholic statement. This is a harsh place we live in and people do suffer, so to see love triumphing in people who had been bruised but not beaten by life was wonderful.