WINNER: Most Hypocrital Casting EVER - Noah (2012) Discussion

[–] nammage 16 years ago

Judging someone based on their beliefs ... sounds so familiar.

'...the ultimate ending is: war itself.'

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[–] mstock25 16 years ago

No, actually, what I see is not his beliefs but the practices of it. Have you read anything on these people? Seriously? I am not FOR any "religion" that kills people, or harms its members or robs them of their hard earned money. This isnt a religion, it is a money making CULT so yes I feel its a bit different than an actual religion. These people HARM and in some cases their actions have lead to the DEATH of a member or a members child.

I refuse to accept anything as a religion when it is based off some wankers sci-fi book. Seriously, read on it my friend and then come back and tell me I am the one in the wrong.

Please, take the time to read the following. I know it is long, but it makes a very poignant point.

________________________________________

forum.exscn.net — A former member of the Cult of Scientology describes some of the insanity she endured beginning at the age of six.

Summarized Experiences From Within the Cult Scientology

1. Not allowed to see my mom but once a day when I was six. Was only permitted to see her at dinner for one hour.
2. My mom was made to work 12 hour days and was only paid $50.00 a week and given room and board.
3. I was made to live in a dorm at the age of six, separate from my mom or dad, with three other girls my age.
4. I was made to believe from a very early age that Scientologist were the better than other people, and if you were not in it, you were not good enough.
5. I was told to only tell my grandparents good things about myself when I visited, to not let on if I was behind in school, but just make them think I am a great student.
6. Scientologists constantly refers to people outside of their 'religion" as "Wogs". A derogatory term used commonly by members in it.
7. I was made to join staff when I was 14. I had to sign a billion year contract because of their beliefs in reincarnation.
8. I had to stop attending school when I was 14, to join staff. I could only attend school one day a week on Sunday for about 10 hours.
9. I was made to live in a two room apartment with seven other women when I was 14. Overcrowding is commonplace. I live like that for most of my seven years on staff.
10. I had 30 minute lunches, breakfasts and dinners. If I was late back to work I would get in trouble.
11. I was working 10 hour days, six days a week, from the age of 16. I was not getting paid overtime. I was only making $50.00 a week.
12. The only time I would have off, was every other week, if my production was good enough. Sometimes I would go a month without even one day off.
13. When I joined, I would not see my mom for days at a time. She lived in a different dorm than I did, and had a different eating schedule than me.
14. At the age of 15 I was made to stay up until 12 pm every Thursday and Friday to attend Scientology meetings and clean their facilities with all the other staff.
15. After Scientology events we were all assigned a number of books or tapes we were suppose to sell to the public. We had to make our quotas before we were allowed to go home. I started selling books when I was 15. Sometimes we had to call from lists we were given to make our quotas. Most of these lists were to Scientologist who were out of the state or out of the country.
16. The staff was not aloud to eat the nice food put out for public after events. It was only for the public, we would get in trouble if we were caught eating it.
17. The staff was not allowed to socialize with the public after events, only to sell books, we could not join them on the dance floor, or in the auditorium.
18. The Hacienda (apartment complex where the staff live) is set up so that staff can not just get up and leave when they want to. The Premises is surrounded by a large gate and bushes so that people cannot see in easily. There are several cameras around the complex to keep an eye on the staff. There is a security guard at the front gate at all times to let people in and out. Staff may not leave without first explaining where they are going and what they are doing to the security guard.
19. Sea Org staff are not allowed to own televisions, mine was confiscated when I was 14 or 15. Staff are not aloud to watch TV ever. Movies are only allowed on the weekend if you get approval to have time off. Movies are not allowed on weekdays.
20. Most staff do not have cars or cell phones because it costs to much money to own them. If you have a car, you have to check with the security guard if you want to leave, if he is suspicious he will not let you leave.
21. The only days staff are allowed to celebrate and dance together is the Christmas party and Beer and Cheese party. Twice a year. Don't ask, neither of these celebrations make much sense.
22. I was forced to cut all ties with my dad when I was 15. He was declared a Suppressive Person by Scientology, and that meant I could no longer talk or associate myself with him at all.
23. My mom died of cancer when I was 16. She was still on staff at the time, and she wrote in her will she wanted my brother and I assigned the guardians of Rusty and Linda Hilton, both on staff at Flag.
24. Once I joined staff I could no longer visit my relatives or grandparents for even a weekend without prior approval. At times my once a year request was denied for whatever reason, or no one had the time to look at it.
25. I was not allowed to socialize with anyone outside of the staff. If I did I was reported on and pulled in for questioning.
26. I was put on the e-meter once a week, along with all the other staff, to see if I had a clean or dirty needle. Clean meant I was OK, dirty meant I was hiding something. If it was dirty I was pulled in for questioning, and made to write up stuff I thought I was hiding
27. After each live success story we were suppose to stand up, clap, and say hip hip hooray three times to LRHs picture. This was daily. After each course completion in Scientology we had to tell everyone in our class our successes, once we were done we had to clap and say hip hooray to LRHs picture. His pictures are everywhere in their buildings. It was not optional you had to do it.
28. I had to get a divorce while I was in Scientology because my husband wanted out, and I did not. I was actually not told he was leaving until the day he left. He didn't even tell me, I was told by someone who knew him. It is against their rules to speak or mention to anyone in Scientology you are leaving staff. If you do, you can get kicked out and never be able to talk to your friends in it again.
29. When I finally decided I wanted to leave because I missed my ex husband too much, I was not allowed to just go. They made me work in the galley scrubbing pots and pans. They said I could not mention to anyone I wanted to leave, but everyone pretty much knew what I was doing. It took me three months of being separated from the group, all my friends, being put on the e-meter (lie detector) for two weeks straight and asked if I intend to contact my dad when I leave. I finally was aloud to leave, but was told I was moving to New Mexico to work for a Scientology school. I was told I could not return to Clearwater at all.
30. They made me sign a 10,000.00 waiver, promising that I would never talk out about my experiences with Scientology. I had to sign it before they would let me leave.
31. I was assigned handlers when I wanted to leave. I could not leave any of the buildings or walk outside without one of them. There are security guards assigned to each building, video cameras at each building entrance and exit, so if I wanted to leave without my handler, they would know.
32. I returned to Clearwater about a year after they sent me away. I was approached by one of their security guards and asked what I was doing here. I was on a public street on my lunch break. I just ignored him and walked away. They still thought they could control me, even though I was no longer on staff.
33. When my brother found out I was talking to my dad again, he refused to talk to me anymore. Now that I have associate myself with my dad, I am also declared, which means my brother can't talk to me.
34. Once I left, my "legal guardians' have never contacted me or spoke to me, even before I was declared.
35. I do not have one single friend I knew before I left Scientology (2002). They have all chosen to write me off because I no longer am a Sceintologist. Once I was declared, I was deleted from about 15 peoples myspace page. I did not delete them , they deleted me.
36. I am not allowed to talk to my Scientology school or teachers. They will also no longer talk to me. Once I left staff, they no longer thought it necessary to associate themselves with me.
37. I did not have a High School diploma when I left in 2002. I was 20 years old. Once I was married, they said I was now considered an adult and I no longer needed to attend school. I was only 17 when I married.
38. I never learned to drive, I now have a car, but driving was something they did not think was necessary.

This is just some of it. Parents have allowed their children to DIE from common things like the flu and why? because L Ron Hubbard says medicine is bad.

Now, judge me. Please.

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[–] nammage 16 years ago

Christianity, whether Protestant, or Catholicism, is a "money-making" machine. Even Islam, and Judaism has a way of getting a good deal of money from their followers.

I've never heard of a Scientologist who killed another based upon being a Scientologist. I've heard of a Christian killing someone based upon their religious belief. I've heard of Muslims doing the same, and even Jews but have not heard of a Scientologist killing someone based on their beliefs. They tend to sue rather than kill.

All religions are cults, in my opinion.

I've read all about Scientology, the ends, the outs, the hidden. I don't need to read your long list to form a different opinion than I already have.

If people are willing to believe that what's in the Bible, the Torah (OT), and the Quran is true, then people will believe what's written in a "Sci-Fi" book.

People have a tendency of believing a lot of things that seem far fetched to many others.

-Nam

'...the ultimate ending is: war itself.'

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[–] marc-339 16 years ago

"Christianity, whether Protestant, or Catholicism, is a "money-making" machine. "

i'm a Christian and i still haven't made in money off my beliefs. am i doing something wrong oh wise internet person?

"I've never heard of a Scientologist who killed another based upon being a Scientologist. I've heard of a Christian killing someone based upon their religious belief. I've heard of Muslims doing the same, and even Jews but have not heard of a Scientologist killing someone based on their beliefs. They tend to sue rather than kill.

All religions are cults, in my opinion."

should we assume from that that therefore only religious people kill? or don't agnostics and atheists kill?

"If people are willing to believe that what's in the Bible, the Torah (OT), and the Quran is true, then people will believe what's written in a "Sci-Fi" book. "

yes, hence when the "origin of the species" finally arrived, people were willing to believe it...

"People have a tendency of believing a lot of things that seem far fetched to many others. "

actually, people have a tendency to believe anything that doesn't ask them to take responsibility for their choices and actions towards other people.

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[–] Lanky_gentleman 16 years ago

i'm a Christian and i still haven't made in money off my beliefs. am i doing something wrong oh wise internet person?

---

you mis-interpreted what he said,
YOU arent making money, you're giving money to a structured organisation.
hence, they are money making machines.

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[–] marc-339 16 years ago

"you mis-interpreted what he said,
YOU arent making money, you're giving money to a structured organisation.
hence, they are money making machines."

and you are generalizing based on a minority. for example, my church uses the funds it's members pay to pay off the bond, to pay the salaries of the staff, to get/update equipment, to feed any members that are unemployed and to push into the impoverished parts of the community. i know the leaders of the church personally. i know that they earn a minimal wage.

so tell me, if you were to take the time to research, by actually going to these churches and seeing for yourself as opposed to reading sensationalist news, would you post your opinion if it goes against the sensationalism? or is it always easier to rather ignorantly generalize?

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[–] Lanky_gentleman 16 years ago

and YOU are jumping to the conclusion that I belive a statement I was just trying to explain to somebody who missed it.

so dont wave words like 'ignorance' around.

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[–] nammage 16 years ago

You know, I got an e-mail from the long post below (or above, wherever this comment is going to end up) but not from the rest of those to me. Yes, I meant that the "Church" is the money-making machine, not individual people; how someone could minsconstrue that; I don't know. And for one of them to then turn around and say that, I misinterpreted what was said is laughable, simply based upon everything that I said on the subject.

-Nam

I'm on the road less traveled...

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[–] butturff 13 years ago

Here is a question for you. Do you belong to a major denomination? If so your church pays into either a regional or a national body. If you live in the United States a religious entity is a non profit and tax exempt. That means everything your preacher makes for his preaching job he does not have to pay taxes on. Also most denominations supply housing as well as food and transportation for the preacher and his/her family. That takes money.

You mentioned that your church feeds the hungry. Can I ask you does the church buy the food or is it donated by the members and the community? Do the people who prepare and dish out this food get paid or are they volunteer? Most churches run some sort of food pantry or soup kitchen. These things are staffed by volunteers not paid employees. Also most churches are staffed in their offices by volunteers not paid staff.

Make no mistake churches are in it to make money, if they weren't they would never shut down, and they wouldn't have to pass around the plate for people to give money. They need your money, and if they don't get enough of your money they will do a fund raiser of some sort to get more of your money. During the holiday season a church I attended made popcorn balls, everything was supplied by the church members, the money went to the church.

I work in retail management, most of our donations to the community go to churches for their fund raising drives. We donate money so they can make more money from the community. I don't view this as greedy so much as this is what the organization has to do in order to survive. To pretend anything else is nothing but denial.

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[–] jarilynm 11 years ago

Get your facts straight: ministers pay taxes like every other individual citizen. It's the church organization that has tax-free status, not the individuals on its staff. Most ministers earn a fairly low salary.

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[–] jarilynm 11 years ago

However, you & others on this thread who complain about churches being money-making machines have somewhat of point, but you cannot apply it to all churches. There are many churches that are honestly trying to do good work, but there are also many which just rake in money, and generally if you see a church that is making a lot of money, that's the one you should distrust.
You also need to avoid assuming that the churches which are hypocritical money- making machines got that way as a result of a master plan. More often, it's simply that a church that preaches reasonable ideas, goodness & kindness does not attract as many members, because the members would have to actually work at being a good person. Most would rather go to a church which tells them the way to heaven is just to subscribe to a set of wacky beliefs, and anyone else who does not believe their wacky teachings is going to hell - that way they get to look down on their fellow men rather than be kind to them, and yet they still get to feel they are being virtuous while being hypocritical haters. Once they buy into the idea that their church is the ONLY way to get to heaven, they will attend regularly and donate lots of money - again it's easier to buy your way to heaven than to actually have to work at being a good person. So teh wacky churches thrive & rake in money.
In other words, churches that are money-making machines got that way through a process which is uncannily like natural selection and evolution of species, which is ironic considering how many religous folks are such strident opponents of the scientific theory of evolution.

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[–] nammage 16 years ago

You can assume anything you wish but realize when you do, you'll come off looking sort of stupid for doing so 'cause it's not what I implied. Non-believers have killed people for their beliefs; I think Communism is a good example of that, since almost all (I don't count Cuba) Communist countries have been atheistic; and the governments of those countries have killed people for believing opposite to what the government ruled by. That doesn't mean that makes atheists worse than religious countries, because religious countries have done the same thing. And, really if one thinks about it it's really not the "religion" or "non-religion" that's killing people, it's those in that religion or non-religion that is who feel they are doing it in the name of said belief. Quite sad, really.

-Nam

I'm on the road less traveled...

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[–] hoboboxerjoe 13 years ago

And name ONE atheist that has killed in THE NAME OF ATHEISM. There is a HUGE difference between "atheist-communism in china, etc" and real atheism. For one, the way they treat the leaders of these countries is nearly god like and up to being outright called a demigod.

The reason that non-religious countaries, like Greenland, Norway, The Nethlerlands, Iceland, Canada to a certain extent, etc. Do so well, is because there isn't ridiculous religious dogma and "moral high-ground" *beep* been spouted about. Atheism itself is a rejection of dogmatic beliefs in something that isn't substantiated, it is rooted entirely in logic. So if what you're tyring to say is that the ideologies of Atheism and it's roots in logic are somehow comparable to religious dogma simply because human beings are in both camps, well then you are missed the point, completely.

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[–] Strawberry_Typhoon 16 years ago

"i'm a Christian and i still haven't made in money off my beliefs. am i doing something wrong oh wise internet person?"

Yeah, you're not in the money maker paygrade, you're the money giver.

I'm sure your pastor drives a lexus, what do you drive?

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[–] marc-339 16 years ago

"Yeah, you're not in the money maker paygrade, you're the money giver.

I'm sure your pastor drives a lexus, what do you drive? "

does he really? how do you know this? either you're an ignorant person who bases their skewed world view on fallacious assumptions, or you're highly intelligent and you're going to qualify your statements with evidence...

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[–] dmfaust 16 years ago

I've always loved when people compare standard organized religion to Scientology, it gives me a good laugh. There are individual con artists who use religion to make money certainly, but they *abuse* faith not represent it. Most religious organizations are extremely poor, or getting by while pumping money back into the community(essentially acting as a hub for people to bring their efforts together). Collection plates and all that? Well, that is pocket change given by choice. Unless you care to call Unicef or the Red Cross cults simply because they take donations.

A cult by definition seeks to control the minds and actions of their followers - for either monetary gain or shear megalomanaical or messiah complex type insanity. Religions virtually always emphasize free will and personal growth by contrast. Religion and cults are often tied closely together, as of course many cults are sub sects of organized religions and what not - but to say that they are the same is not just a lack of understanding of faith, it is a lack of understanding of *VOCABULARY*.

Now I am not the biggest fan of highly organized religion(Islamic states or the Vatican system), but that is because they are political organizations more than anything else. (I am a personal faith oriented protestant.) Even the most insane fundamentalist still does not become equivalent to a cult member. A member of a cult has been stripped of their free will and reasoning faculties by outside forces, where fundamentalists simply have *chosen* to believe in their faith of choice far, far too much. Yes, of course there are Christian/Islamic/etc. cultists, but they are NOT the standard. Now a zealot or fanatic type would be more equivalent to a cultist, but there are still important differences(mainly in how they got to that point), as obviously it is hard to reconcile an oppressed Afghani village child tricked into becoming a suicide bomber with Tom Cruise.

Anyway, there are legitimate critiques of religion, or rather specific aspects of it(the big target always being the Catholic heirarchy I find), but calling them all cults is simply not one of them and to make such a claim simply makes your opinion seem foolish and uninformed to those who know what they are talking about on both sides of the debate.

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[–] nammage 16 years ago

This is the definition of Cult:

A group or doctrine with religious, philosophical or cultural identity sometimes viewed as a sect, often existent on the margins of society and/or exploitative towards its members.

wiktionary.com

Notice the italic. Sometimes they are viewed as a sect of another religion (i.e. Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc.) Now, when I said I view all religions as cults the only difference from my view, to the definition is that the definition considers them small to the bigger religion. But if one just edits it a bit:

A group or doctrine with religious, philosophical or cultural identity existent in society and exploitative towards its members.

How is Christianity not like this? How is Islam not like this? How is Judaism not like this?

All three use fear to control their members. If you don't do this, you'll go to hell. or If you don't do this you won't be loved by God, and be welcomed in his Kingdom. How's that not a fear tactic? The Bible teaches to give away all that you have, and to live a simple (and poor) life. And, so the Church (Catholic and Protestant) twisted that meaning to suit their needs.

Collection plates and all that? Well, that is pocket change given by choice.

Pocket change? I belonged to this one Church where the pocket change was a check the person made out (most of the people in that Church made out) to the Church for hundreds of dollars. And, most average people put between $5 and $100 in that plate. And, children are usually the ones who put in "change" as a learning tool of the parent to the child on putting money into the collection plate. When I was a Christian, if I ever put less than $20 (as an Adult) in the collection plate people would have given me the cold eye.

In "family" type Churches, I realize that money is to go towards paying for the Church itself (not the broader Church but their little Church) in expenses of electricity, and taxes, and the preacher. That I'm actually fine with; even with bigger Churches if that's what they actually do; but most pay huge amounts of their money to whatever sect of that religion they are a part of (i.e. Southern Baptist Convention, Catholic Church (vatican) etc.) I just read a news article a couple of weeks ago where the Vatican seemed to complain that they only got 9 million dollars in donations this year. (that number may be incorrect but you get my gist, hopefully)

The Catholic Church is a business; and they will do and say anything to get money from their followers.

Most Protestant Churches are a business; and they will do and say anything to get money from their followers.

Now, this doesn't mean all Catholic churches are like this, all Catholics are like this, or all Protestant churches are like this, or all Protestants are like this but I feel more are than are not; and Christians (any kind) will defend their Church to their dying breath without even questioning it -- how is that free will?

"If you don't believe in God you'll go to hell, so it's best to just believe in God, and that way you won't go to hell." How is placing fear in one not taking away their free will?

To a Christian the Bible is the word of God, and if they go against anything written in it, then they are going against God, and they will go to hell.

This is what they're taught, this is what I was taught for 20 years. There's no such thing as "free will" when it concerns religion.

-Nam

I'm on the road less traveled...

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[–] dmfaust 16 years ago

You had to reword a definition to fit your meaning. That... pretty much proves my point for me.

But to go on and demolish every other word you said...

First, none of the religions in question forces a vow of poverty on people. If they did, the actual vows taken by certain individuals would be redundant and meaningless.

Pocket change? I belonged to this one Church where the pocket change was a check the person made out (most of the people in that Church made out) to the Church for hundreds of dollars. And, most average people put between $5 and $100 in that plate. When I was a Christian, if I ever put less than $20 (as an Adult) in the collection plate people would have given me the cold eye.

What the hell churches were you going to? If you are sitting on millions while going to Church and donate a buck, yeah someone should look at you a little funny. But the behavior you speak of is simply something I've never even remotely seen.

The Catholic Church is a business; and they will do and say anything to get money from their followers. Most Protestant Churches are a business; and they will do and say anything to get money from their followers.

Um. I am not a huge fan of the Papacy, but a business? That is just stupid. The Catholic church, outside of religion, exists as a political entity not a corporate entity. (Which... well, honestly I think is a little worse. :|)

What churches are these exactly? What are they saying, what are they doing? There are individual con artists certainly(televangelists), but the very concept that most churches are rich(which any organization that would do anything for money would be) is just stupid. Find me a priest driving around in a Porsche and we'll talk.

Now, this doesn't mean all Catholic churches are like this, all Catholics are like this, or all Protestant churches are like this, or all Protestants are like this but I feel more are than are not; and Christians (any kind) will defend their Church to their dying breath without even questioning it -- how is that free will?

Er. No? Defending one's faith and belief is something far from unique to just religion. As for not questioning it, that is patently ridiculous. Everyone, EVERYONE, questions their views on virtually everything at some point, it is how we grow as human beings and develop more complex world views. If they don't, well... then quite frankly they are most likely people of a severely diminished mental capacity. And don't tell me you know someone who hasn't, because you don't know what goes on in people's heads.

"If you don't believe in God you'll go to hell, so it's best to just believe in God, and that way you won't go to hell." How is placing fear in one not taking away their free will? To a Christian the Bible is the word of God, and if they go against anything written in it, then they are going against God, and they will go to hell.

You speak of a very classical and often misinformed take on the Bible that is NOT common to all Christians. For many, the belief essentially boils down to that if you are a decent person and do not actively embrace evil then you'll have your chance. This all plays into the more general opinion that the Bible sets forth morals and ideals that people should follow, and that those who do not hold to certain beliefs are less likely to abide by these morals. Not to say that atheists are inherently immoral or that theists are inherently moral, far from it. Simply that it is a view held by many people of faith that when an individual is posed with a moral dilemma, they might be more inclined to act a certain way if they believe nothing lasting will come of it.

This is what they're taught, this is what I was taught for 20 years. There's no such thing as "free will" when it concerns religion.

Well, you were taught fairly poorly. As for free will, free will does not mean the ability to act without consequence. Being brain washed into a top secret government assassin = no free will. Killing your neighbor for fun and going to hell = you made your choice, now suffer the consequence. What's so hard to understand about that?

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[–] nammage 16 years ago

I do not think I stated that "individual churches are rich", I believe what I implied was that the associations in which these churches belong to (The Vatican for Catholicism, Southern Baptist Convention for most, if not all Baptist Churches in the South, and elsewhere in the U.S. and abroad etc.,) are the ones who are getting rich. I am sure there are individual churches that do get rich, I went to one in Orlando, Florida that could seat over 20,000 people, had a huge TV screen, etc., etc., etc., and I'm pretty sure most of their money came from the people of the Church, and was put into the Church more so than anywhere else (or the pocket of the Pastor).

And don't tell me you know someone who hasn't, because you don't know what goes on in people's heads.

I could point you to a few atheist websites where theists join, and say they have never strayed from the path of God, or Jesus. Most of them come off sounding like lunatics to tell you the truth.

I think that we come from two different worlds (Earth is the world, two different societies), and you trying to understand my point-of-view, and what I've actually gone through in my life, what my friends and family have gone through with the Church (some still in those Churches because they can't muster the strength to go somewhere else because their Church says if they do, they will go to hell) etc., makes it seem as if I'm a liar, and don't know what I'm talking about, and makes you the logical one, and you knowing what you're talking about in contrast to what I'm saying.

I'm sure others here have experienced similar things as I have, perhapst hey can speak up because there's no way I could convince you otherwise.

-Nam

I'm on the road less traveled...

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[–] purban 16 years ago

Like some other posters here, I thought my church took my money to pay minimally-payed workers or upkeep the building. Then I visited the Vatican, and I changed my mind.

Since then I've also realized that much of the money that goes into a church helps those who want to believe only what the church believes. There's exceptions, for sure. However, that's why I now choose my own charities rather than give to my church. I still go to church and give minimally there (particularly when I can specify where the money will go), but I think the better way to give is to give more directly to those who need it. I'm not sure many church structures are set up for that, be they Christian or Scientology or otherwise.

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[–] activeinnergee 16 years ago

The clergy does not live a lower class life style which is absurd, life should be hard and almost destitute for them because they should be the embodiment of Christian beliefs, which is living with the bare minimum and giving away what is left. Hell the idea of a church is pretty much absurd, a pastor can preach outside, why isn't the money that is being used for some arbitrary building being used to feed and shelter the homeless?

I like that you endorse the walking the path is more important then knowing the path ideology that I think the figure Jesus woudl truly preach, but that is not what is put forward by most Christians, it is usually a belief in Jesus is the only way to heaven ideology.

People obviously question Scientology alot, thus why they have rules and systems put in place to marginalize and cut those people off from their little version of society. A cult is about teaching you to feel ashamed or wrong when you think thoughts you are being told you are not supposed to think, which Scientology, Christianity, and a good many of the Western religions do. Christians in large are not taught to question their beliefs but that they can find their way back to God when they do.

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[–] nammage 13 years ago

I recently read "The Book of Mormon", and I must say: out of mostly all Christian-based faiths; that's the most racist one. I mean, it implies, or just flat-out states that only "white people" will go to heaven, and god punishes humans by turning them black (or whatever non-white race you are); and black people will never get into heaven based on the fact that they are "dirty" (in reference to the Book of Mormon); their skin, and apparently their souls, as well.

Now, anytime someone tells me they are a Mormon, I automatically think they are racist. Also, if they are non-white and a Mormon I think that they are either really stupid (thus never actually read the Book of Mormon) or think so little of themselves.

-Nam

I'm on the road less traveled...

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[–] hoov-4 16 years ago

Great great post mstock25. Don't worry you're right about the crazy moonbats, the scientologists. Talk about a scam. John Travolta freaks me out with that crazy short hair do of his and Tom Cruise, well has he come out yet as a homosexual, just wondering. I think JT is gay too.

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[–] hoboboxerjoe 13 years ago

"I am not FOR any "religion" that kills people, or harms its members or robs them of their hard earned money"

That covers EVERY, SINGLE, RELIGION, EVER, MADE!!!

Have YOU actually ever done your research on even contemporary religions today? Lets take the Dhali Llama, Buddihism, etc. Do you have any idea what the hell they put their people through in Tibet? Torture was regular there. Are the Chinese much better? No, but the enemy of my enemy is NOT my friend.

Christianity? Do I even need to touch this one? Seriously?

Muslims?...

Jews? No dice. They've suffered a holocaust and oppression, but their religion often gets a free pass when it comes to being critical of it in an intellectual fashion. And not a "jews control all the media, Zionists schemes, etc. etc."
Israel is far, far from innocent in atrocities.

Point is; Religion is created by humans, and humans have a nasty way of showing the ugliest side of humanity for a select few, at the cost of the money. It is the very opposite of Spock's great Vulcan Logic! :P

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] mark-maples 10 years ago

I saw a video years ago, black and white, perhaps an 8mm, was L.Ron on his ship, he lived on it to avoid paying taxes, he joked in it about making his own religion, said he could, obviously before he came up with Scientology.
Jesus told his disciples to take nothing in regards to money, they were to spread gods word for food, and a bed, those not interested in hearing it, knock the dust from your feet and move on!

Wasn't me

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[–] AceRoccola 10 years ago

"I am not FOR any "religion" that kills people, or harms its members or robs them of their hard earned money."

Says the Christian. Oh, the hypocrisy.

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[–] marc-339 16 years ago

"Judging someone based on their beliefs ... sounds so familiar. "

yeah, when will the atheists stop that...

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[–] kosk11348 16 years ago

Judging someone based on their beliefs ... sounds so familiar.

What are we supposed to use to judge a person's character, their hair color?

Orgies are not too much fun if no one wants to do it with you.

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[–] mstock25 16 years ago

I have issues with the rest of religions as well, and I said that had you bothered to read what was there. I'm sorry if its too long to keep your attention span.

But I will say this, if your sister was one and her daughter was ill, and could possibly die from whatever she had, but it was treatable, she COULD be saved, but your sister refuses to because of L Ron Hubbard, would allow you niece to die? Because they would.

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[–] Undivine_Trinity 16 years ago

So most people are willing to believe man came from monkeys through genetic mutation, even though mutations are loss of info. not a gain of info, and you think religion is false

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[–] mstock25 16 years ago

Nope, I dont think religion is false or that we came from monkeys.. Personally, I have NO idea where we came from or where we are going. The difference is I dont pretend to.

All I can do is love my family and live my life the best way possible. In the end, we all will see if we are right or wrong. I consider myself a good person, I dont steal, I dont kill people, I dont lie, I love my children I pay my taxes and I sit on the crapper like everyone else.

I just have no delusion ideas about men in the sky or aliens or monkeys. What does it matter? Something set it in motion and we will find out when its our time. Who knows, perhaps we are all random and when the lights go out, they go out.

Hopefully none of us find out any sooner than we are ready to. Love your families, take care of yourself, and help someone in need whenever you can. If im going to hell because I dont trust in some intangible figure even though I have lived a good life, then oh well. I find it amusing that the religions that preach the most about love, condemn the most.

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[–] toninobeman 16 years ago

Sorry, but this sounds like a spoof or something funny. Rob Schneider? Elliott Gould as God? Man, if this is not a comedy, nothing will be.

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[–] mjbevis 16 years ago

It's not a spoof. Check out the current release (although limited release) that also stars Ben Kingsley as the Narrator and Elliot Gould as the voice of God, and you'll see that it's an animated version of "The Ten Commandments".

This movie is obviously being made by the same people (who perhaps intend to branch out into an ongoing series of Bible stories), and it's being made in *computer animation*.

Click on Kingsley or Gould's name in IMDb to see the film I'm talking about.

It's not an overly religious film, and it's not a parody. It's a kid's cartoon movie of a Biblical story, that's all. And it's the second of what may turn out to be HUNDREDS!!

Hope that helps clarify the situation. It's really not worth people getting into heated religious arguments over it. It's aimed at four-year-olds!

:)

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] activeinnergee 16 years ago

True that sir, true that.

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[–] ignignot78 12 years ago

HAHAHAHAHA and you say Jason LEE is "bat *beep* crazy"?...../sigh. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

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[–] Anionic_Surfactant 16 years ago

“So most people are willing to believe man came from monkeys through genetic mutation, even though mutations are loss of info. not a gain of info, and you think religion is false”

What is information? What are mutations? I’ll bet my every possession that you haven’t even begun to understand those things. Nor do you want to. But that sure doesn’t stop you from pretending to.

Do you think this is just an oversight? Something that every single scientist ever to live for the last one hundred and fifty years has overlooked but then the non-biased, highly educated, informed, absolutely honest in everything they do creationists happen to stumble upon this obvious proof that evolution is false? The fact that every single honest scientist in the world still considers evolution true obviously means they’re stupid/conspiring to destroy religion, right?

I don’t know why I’m trying to explain things to you that you don’t want to understand. I guess I’m doing it for other people that might read this because you are so sadly misinformed and intentionally ignorant about the world because it’s the only way to accommodate your religion to it. And you’ll die thinking you’re just going to wake up in heaven. That’s a sad thing to think about for the people who realize the odds of that actually happening.

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[–] nammage 16 years ago

Man have a common ancestor to the Ape; it's not that we come from monkeys you moron.

-Nam

I'm on the road less traveled...

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] mstock25 16 years ago

Most guys are in touch with their inner monkey at least once a day!

HAHAHAHAHHA ROLMFAO

i just couldnt help myself

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[–] purban 16 years ago

I'm not sure a person who is not sure where we came from has any right calling such casting hypocritical. I'd call the posting hypocritical. For the actors, it's a job. For the poster, it's....????

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[–] krazed_nutz 16 years ago

These films are getting made purely for money..Look at how bad 'The Ten Comandments' is, it lacked effort. It's as if the film-makers know that people will buy into it because it's a 'Christian' film. So what if Jason Lee is involved in this film? It's a job for him! He is getting paid, remember? If it was a free gig, he wouldn't be doing it.......Also, don't shove him into the same category as Tom Cruise for being a Scientologist because he's not preaching it like Cruise does. He seems to keep his beliefs to himself.

Cheers

"It's better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it"

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[–] ironsamurai666 16 years ago

this is definitely a spoof, look at the cast

on the subject of varying religions, all they really seem to do is cause problems and conflict with each other. better to just be apathetic and live your life like a decent person not bothering anyone and helping whomever you can while you've got the time. it's really not difficult, and anyone trying to argue belief systems is a *beep* idiot because, no matter what, belief is belief, totally subjective and totally personal. You can't change faith through argument; that's not how faith works. For example, i may not care about religion/belief, but it's not like I'm going to tell anyone not to believe. I'd like to think I have more respect for people than that, and I wish everyone did, instead of coming on boards like this ranting about *beep* topics like this, when all they're accomplishing is pissing people off and promoting the inherent insanity of it all.

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[–] spikevegas 16 years ago

i agree with the OP.

mainly because i was PISSED when i found out that NONE OF THE CAST IN THE LORD OF THE RINGS WERE ACTUALLY HOBBITS! (except maybe sean astin, but the rest were just lyin bastids.)

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[–] nir_schneider 16 years ago

its not a christian film.. how does noah and all the other names christian?? its a jewish bible story.. stop saying its christian becuase its not..
noah was jewish.. "noach"

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[–] krazed_nutz 16 years ago

And Judaism isn't a tier of Christianity then?....

Well done.

"It's better to have a gun and not need it, than to need a gun and not have it"

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[–] mjbevis 16 years ago

No, it's not.

If anything, it's the other way around.

Judaism came first (like, for hundreds and hundreds of years), and then Jesus was born and about a hundred years later his followers 'formed' Christianity. So you could in fact argue that *Christianity* is a tier of *Judaism*, although I wouldn't say that myself because of the flaming such a comment would likely receive ...

:)

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[–] thecanadianicon 16 years ago

Who gives a *beep* about what the guy does if he can act and make the show not suck it doesn't matter. Tom Cruise can act no matter how bat *beep* crazy of a Scientologist he is. As long as he doesn't start shoving that cult down people's throats who cares?

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[–] I-Am-Quantum 16 years ago

The power of the prophet L. Ron Hubbard...did you guys see battlefield earth>? this guy wrote the book...terrible. At least the Bible is well written.

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[–] track100 16 years ago

Noah's Ark has nothing to do with Christianity. Jesus never mentioned it once. It's a story that was around before the bible and has been told in ever region of the world in some form.

-What are you gonna see?
-Whatever looks good and starts soon.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] pulciferwi 14 years ago

I agree with you, and I'll tell you why. The movie production companies approve casts like these for religious type movies so the American "christian hating" press will leave them alone. Its their instant out. The press don't like any religion, Christians are just an easy target. They feel sorry for the Jewish holocost of WW2, Muslims order hits on them. Christians don't say a word.

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[–] TheCornProject 14 years ago

I once went to a church (Potter's House) that demanded money & preached that if you didn't you'd go to hell. There were many more cultish things about that church that I won't go deeper into. Fortunately my family left that church & moved into a apastolic one. Everyday I have my doubts about God, none of us christians have the whole world figured out. I refuse to give my money to the church because I don't feel that you need to give money to believe in a God. The principle of money giving, is sow & you shall reap. If ever that church begins demanding control over my thought-power & actions I will simply leave. In no way as a christian do I feel obligated by what a church says I can & cannot do. So when you guys think us christians are a brainwashed bunch of people, I will say your uneducated because you really are. We aren't a bunch of perfect little people either; I enjoy watching violent movies, swearing & not talking about God 24/7. I even wonder sometimes if all the "god's" are just one God. Only humans have construed their own methods of worshipping that "god". I do however believe cult's exist; whether the intention behind that organisation is total mind control or purely financial gain. I believe I can tell when a christian church begins to take the form of a cult ie. potters house.

The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive.

Pvt. Joker

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