MovieChat Forums > Human Weapon (2007) Discussion > For someone that is trained in MMA...

For someone that is trained in MMA...


Chambers' sure is pansy. In the Karate episode, when he fails to break the board with a spear hand and then punches through it, he still complains about the pain. Not only that, he seems a bit overconfident. Though he has a martial arts background, he acts like he knows everything to the masters that are trying to teach him. I think it's funny when he fails a task.

Duff has an open mind and modesty. I'm willing to bet that he had a traditional teacher that instilled respect for the art.

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i thik cage fighting put an end to respect for traditional teachers and their arts
desevedly so

Cease to resist, giving my goodbye, I drive my car into the ocean......

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Jason Chambers is only a journeyman MMA fighter.

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he has an ok record, a good balnce of KO's and submissions, hes like 16-5-1 overall
http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?FighterID=4430

Cease to resist, giving my goodbye, I drive my car into the ocean......

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[deleted]

TheKindMan makes a huge point, guys.

Every student has respect for their masters. I have been practicing martial arts for almost forever and I know everyone in that Dojo respects the master. BUT no matter what type of fighting style to learn from the master, you must respect them.

The spear-hand technique is not retarded in their practice. For Chambers and Duff to learn it maybe, but this tradition has been long existed and is obviously useful for them or they would not use it. They train their hands every day for this use, so for them it works. Any regular joe on the street, or someone's hands who aren't conditioned, then they will definitely break their fingers.

MUSTANG CARLY

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Duff has an open mind and modesty. I'm willing to bet that he had a traditional teacher that instilled respect for the art.


I don't think Duff has a martial arts background at all so he's going in as almost a blank slate. I believe, though I'm not completely sure, he was a football player/Greco-Roman wrestler.


The ugly and the stupid have the best of it in this world ~ Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray

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[deleted]

Duff has trained in some version of karate but I am not sure how much training he had at the time of this series.

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A person well trained in that technique will kill you if he hits you with it. You have to train about five years to be able to do it at that level though.

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I assume desevedly means deservedly, in which case the jury is back and their verdict is that you are a moron. Your sentence is to go to a traditional school, get your a s s kicked then come back and apologize for being ill informed and wrong.

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He is one letter off and you have to make assumptions as to what he means? Are you a grammar police academy dropout?

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THAT is the most unnecesarry post I ever saw in IMDB.


____
DARREN EWING SLEPT ON MY COUCH! - OW MY GAAAAWD!!!!
www.myspace.com/anzycpethian

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[deleted]

"i thik cage fighting put an end to respect for traditional teachers and their arts
desevedly so"

Cagefighting and self defense aren't the same thing. One you want to fight, the other you don't.

Lot's of self defense techniques work, but are not applicable or realistic in the ring. And in vice versca for ring fighting in self defense.

Cage fighters (pro one's) will kick just about anybody's ass. But that doesnt' mean someone who knows "self defense" won't fare well in defending themself.

Krav Maga is an excellent example of something that is self defense but not cage fighting. Judo too. Say some big guy jumps you, you can throw him, knock him down, or hit him really fast (krav maga style) and escape to safety.

My point is martial arts aren't useless because they aren't cagefighting.

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In the Marine Corps martial arts episode the SOLDIER that was training them said that if any of them got in the octagon with Randy Colture that Randy would probably destroy them, but if Randy was out there with them that he would most likely end up dead. I think that illustrates this point perfectly. Not taht what the Marine Corps does is comparable to traditional martial arts either.

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That is because the marine corps fights with weapons, like guns and bayonets. If it was strictly hand-to-hand Randy Coutore would dominate.

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I don't think thats what he meant. He meant the Marine Corps SOLDIERS hand to hand comabt is designed to neutralize, and usually kill, as quickly as possible, where as MMA is designed to be effective within the rules of the particular organization, most of which have banned murder as a means of winning a fight.

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In hand to hand fights where you are not trying to kill the person, I think a trained MMA fighter or an MMA background is obviously the best route, whereas being in a kill situation, you might obviously need more.

But lets face it, most situations you encounter, are not kill situations and MMA is the best defense in these cases. Traditional martial artists get whooped on video over and over by well rounded MMA fighters, whereas we never see a marine kill a person.

Put it this way, if there was a better fighting style to submit someone or beat the pulp out of them, the thousands of fighters from Russia to Brasil would be incorporating these techniques.

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That is because the marine corps fights with weapons, like guns and bayonets. If it was strictly hand-to-hand Randy Coutore would dominate.


Major difference here is that Randy Couture trains to fight every day. It's what he does. Marines don't train in their martial arts every day. I think that would give a world class fighter like Randy Couture an edge in a fight.

I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.
www.werepissedoff.net

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"Major difference here is that Randy Couture trains to fight every day. It's what he does. Marines don't train in their martial arts every day. I think that would give a world class fighter like Randy Couture an edge in a fight."

That was the point I was trying to establish way back. Guys who fight for a living are always going to beat someone who simply dabbles in martial arts. Always.

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i call shenanigans here for a couple reasons...MMA guys are severely hampered due to the rules and conditions of engagement in a real fight. randy couture might beat me w/ a rear naked choke in a ring w/ gloves and a ref...if he tries that shxt in a bar, my friends are going to be cracking pool cues over his overpaid dome while i'm laughing my way out of the choke. same goes for a street fight vs an mma fight...lots of guys survive slams in UFC and elsewhere all the time. if i scoop you and drop you against the curb of a sidewalk, you're not going to talk right again. ever. by that same token, most traditioanl martial arts no longer train you to kill a man, they train for sport. they aren't suppossed to be combat arts anymore, or least, are barely so. but most certainly put a lot more emphasis on physical fitness then the average MMA mcdojo.

as for traditional martial arts vs mma...again, depends on the environment. spear hand is useful in a fight, if you get a chance to throw it. a dive into a double leg is effective too, but i bet most folks won't try that more than twice on the street if the takedown gets stuffed. in the end, a missed spear hand leaves a trained master fine, he's conditioned his hand to that kind of strike. condition your knees for road rash and we'll talk. but that'd be different if we were fighting on grass...or a feild of mostly jagged rocks or right next to a body of fast moving water or in a ring or, etc... lots of pro athletes, footballers, wrestlers, boxers, MMA guys have thought themselves pretty damned good at fighting...and found out later that when some pissed off cowboy busts a couple beer bottles over their head or cheap shot kicks them in the nuts or punches them w/ his keys, that all that training means squat outside the environment they trained for. mike tyson was pretty good at boxing and very strong...but he lost his cherry in prison, so i guess he wasn't that tough.

There are worse things than death, and I can do all of them.

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[deleted]

Wait.... MMA fighters fight for a livig. This is a fact. But Marines don't? That's just being stupid.

www.myspace.com/supersanity

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actualy the marines that practice there martial arts are requered to practice daily

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u dont know what u are talking about military martial arts programs teach the best and most effective technques to destroy somone randy coutour would not be able to deal with an miltary combatitive instructor

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I assume you do Judo. I don't want to insult you in any way but Judo is not really worth much for selfdefence.

Judo is the sport-version of the traditional Sumurai fighting style, Jujutsu. In order to make it into a sport they removed a lot of techniques that led to injuries too fast (neck cranks and air chokes for example). Some schools don't even teach small joint manipulation. And Judo completly lacks any form of punch or kick defence. Not to mention the lack of offensive striking techniques. Judo is only designed to work against Judo.

So if some big guy comes at you and grabs you or gives you a bearhug, Judo will work damn good. But if he opens with punches and kicks Judo will fail.

I think humanity should be wiped out and then we can give evolution a second chance.

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Yeah.. thats why no one learns traditional MA anymore.. oh wait, they do.

The only thing mma proved is that some styles are more suited to it(BJJ,MT) than others.. like styles that employ empty hands techniques that wouldnt work as well in the ring and/or with rules which effectively cripple their style(wing chun) for instance, which teaches to strike at the most vulnerable spots(ie back of head, throat, eyes, neck, groin, solar plexus, and pretty much every other spot that would kill or seriously injure someone. Traditional MA are for real fighting, and for the street, not for the ring. I'm sorry to tell you, but cage fighting didnt change anything apart from highlight the fact that TMA's werent giving enough importance to cardio(since they werent allowed to go for vital spots, thus ending fights within seconds). They were now forced to deal with lay n pray strategies(no hitting back of head etc) which they've never even contemplated facing, and to a certain extent, groundfighting(you aint gonna take people down on the streets and armbar them, especially with multiple attackers)

There will always be respect for TMA's and the people who teach them(if they deserve it). TMA's have been around for thousands of years, and i'm sure they will be around long after MMA(the sport) has died.

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I agree with a lot of the points and disagree also with a few. And I beleive that TMA is in no way obsolete and that MMA will turn to TMA in the near future in order to proceed to the next level.
What I do have a problem with is the argument that if a guy takes another guy down in a street or bar fight, that he immediately becomes a target for the guys buddy's and that he is now gonna be dealt with by a swarm. Why is this wrestler/ grappler/ take down guy always in these scenarios by himself? Where are his friends, grappling team mates, brothers, cousins, aunts, uncles, girlfriend, anybody when he goes to the bar and gets into a fight. Hes always portrayed as this shifty eyed loner with no friends that tackles guys in a fight then gets stomped on by the mob of buddy's that came with the guy he was fighting with.
"Take downs arent practical in a street fight cause if someone took me down my buddy's would crack him upside the head with pool sticks and shove a bottle up his ass heh heh heh".
What if the guy went drinking with the rest of the guys from the US Olympic Greco Roman team? One for every guy you had and they all took everyone of your guys to the ground and proceeded to hammer fist your faces into unrecognizable hamburger meat? Now that would be a sight.

"Sorry guys this is an emergency! Im Chuck Norris!"

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The last place anyone should take any fight is to the ground. Especially the average Joe on the street cause ground fighting takes way too much energy. That, I guess, is why MMA fights don't go many rounds at all, whereas boxers fro example still go up to about 12 rounds.

As far as the Marine Corps go, they developed their own hand-to-hand combat system based on many martial art techniques going on much the same principle as Krav Maga: kill, or be killed which is fine on the battlefield, but on the street, they can still do damage, just not to that extent. There was an ex-SAS guy who totally kicked in four guys outside a pub cause they were making fun of his poodle.

Also, the Marine Corps have a greulling training regime, which I'd imagine they do regularly.

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I agree with the original poster, "Chambers is a pansy" and has obviously never experienced traditional training.
That particular episode on Karate exemplified how poor those two dumb Americans were, their basic skills were very poor and they both had terrible conditioning.
The Karate practitioners in that episode would have dispatched them both in less than a minute, furthermore practical systems like Isshinryu and Okinawan were not even featured in that episode.



'Discretion is the better part of valor'.
Also known as Laoshi77

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well said tito...and it proves my point, you can't prepare for everything. but i wear a cup everywhere i go and am a nasty biter, so i like to think i'm pretty well prepared. ;)

and for the record if randy couture came up to me in a bar, friends or no, i'd most likely buy him a round before i tried to beat his ass... that way he's tipsy and there's plenty of bottles around! always thinkin' ahead is the great dayraven!

There are worse things than death, and I can do all of them.

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Lets just take it as one style vs another style for the moment (not 1 vs a group - any group is going to win with greater numbers)

MMA play by rules of the game and thats what they train for (a game) otherwise they would all be dead, TMA while also playing by the rules and at higher levels we learn how to kill - simply, it's not a game!
I have no doubt that MCMAC or Krav Maga would wipe the floor with MMA, seriously it's a way of life for those guys and to even thinks for one minute that a MMA would be able to stop them would be dilusional.
All styles have their strong and week points, just because MMA took some of the stronger stuff doesnt mean they are the best, just remeber that one good connecting strike can kill no matter how good you are, thats why all styles teach defence as well.

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He does not need to be alone but the idea is "what if?"

If there are two ways you can fight and one will work in a two and one situation and the other wont, why should you learn the one that wont? Murphy's law in action. Always prepare for the worst possible situation.

I think humanity should be wiped out and then we can give evolution a second chance.

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Okay, I'm not going to pretend to be a master fighter of any style, so this is just point-of-view stuff.

I would be interested in seeing how many of today's MMA champions would fare in a fight using the original rules the UFC ran under - no eye gouges, no biting. Also, no rounds, so you keep going until one person is out cold or surrenders.

Also:

I don't think Duff has a martial arts background at all so he's going in as almost a blank slate. I believe, though I'm not completely sure, he was a football player/Greco-Roman wrestler.

I always find it amusing when people say someone is a wrestler, but not a martial artist. Greco-Roman wrestling is a martial art. Most people don't think it is just because it isn't Asian.

Like I said, just my point-of-view. YMMV.

"The moment a person finds his voice is the moment his life takes on grace."
Story

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I'm not an expert in Martial Arts too but isn't Wrestling usually just for the show and has nothing to do with real fighting? I mean, Wrestling, in my eyes is more comparable to gymnastics or dancing then to fighting.
Maybe there is more "real" Wrestling too, where not every move is planned.

____
DARREN EWING SLEPT ON MY COUCH! - OW MY GAAAAWD!!!!
www.myspace.com/anzycpethian

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you're confusing pro wrestling w/ greco roman wrestling. hulk hogan is a skilless ass who can't hurt you unless he's driving... kurt angle could twist your shoulders out of the socket like you might twist the stem off an apple. and the above guy is right, the idea that martial arts, the "arts of mars" is something strictly asian is completely stupid. boxing is a martial art, greco roman wrestling is a martial art, pankration is a martial art.. sorry asian people, you didn't even invent the term "martial; art."

There are worse things than death, and I can do all of them.

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Lol MMA doesn't make you have superhuman strength. Most MMA fighters can't do a lot of the stuff that Martial Artist can do, they can only imitate. That's why MMA is sport fighting. I've been doing Martial Arts my whole life and I've trained in more than 16 styles of fighting and I have trained in most of the styles on this show, anyways us Martial Artists when we adapt to MMA sports fighting we do murder all these MMA trash talkers on here. Don't believe me? Go ask the UFC belt holders Anderson, Penn, Machida, GSP, cause they are all Black Belts in some form of Martial Arts. Anyways, the traditional arts do work for the streets and work when modified for MMA sports fighting.

I tell you many people come into our school talking how they had all these pro fights and training experience then when we spar and grapple them it's just pathetic. But then again our school has been doing MMA before the UFC even started. Those days were when MMA was more deadly because we kept those dangerous techniques in.

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