MovieChat Forums > Ne te retourne pas (2009) Discussion > My interpretation of the ending

My interpretation of the ending


Be careful, there are some major spoilers ahead. I tagged them as spoilers, but still...


Rosa-Maria was given for adoption when she was a teenager, became close friends with her step-sister and, after the accident, she started living her sister's life (thus the change of names).


Something's uncertain, still: why did Jeanne's "fake" life (in which she's played by Sophie Marceau) contain Rosa-Maria's brother as her husband? And why did her children change too?

Also, I'm not sure I understand which action triggered the personality-clash between her two "sides" and start the "transformation".

Please post your oppinion.

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You´re right, that didn´t make a lot of sense. I don´t think Rosa Maria was given for adoption. It´s more likely that the italian family just didn´t care very much for her because she wasn´t really the daughter of gianni´s father, as gianni´s mother says.

I think the whole movie was too slow and the grim atmosphere the director wanted to create didn´t work. Sophie Marceu´s perfomance was much better than Monica Bellucci`s: the italian lady, though stunning as usual, seemed stiff. Kind of a disappointment.

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This movie had me guessing a long time what was going on with Sophie. Did she have Alzheimer decease, or a brain tumor? Was she going crazy because she thought her husband was having an affaire with Monica. Was it some sort of witchcraft or invasion of the body snatchers?

In the end, when Sophie and Monica are together on screen, working on the laptop together, my conclusion then was that Sophie is the ghost of the girl that died in the car crash. She's been around all the years believing she's still alive, married, having kids herself, but it isn't real because it is Monica's live.

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Ghosts? If you´re right, the movie is just plain dumb.

I think the ending was meant to be open, like in fight club, of course that couldn´t happen but... who cares?




















I do. I don´t enjoy these kinds of endings.

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The movie creates a lot of mystery with the changing furniture, people changing and even Jeanne getting a new appearance. But it in the end the movie fails to give a decent explanation of what was happening. Either Jeanne had some severe brain damage or there was something supernatural going on.

I found it disappointing, obviously the makers of the movie had no clue either how to give this movie a satisfying ending that reveals the mystery.

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You obviously didn't get it.... Maria was given for adoption, yes as she was illegitimate. And if you look at the car crash scene a bit better, you might understand. These 2 girls had a strong bond and Maria, who had lost her parents , did a transfer of personality during the crash. She even asked Jeanne's parents to call her Jeanne. That way, it is as if Maria (no parents) & Jeanne's parents (lost child) didn't lose anyone. For years Maria lived as Jeanne. But her true personality finally started to come back slowly. That is it. The furniture: didn't you realize the flat she grew up in IS the flat Jeanne is in at the beginning? She mixes everything up cos she is 2 persons at once.

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What part of the ending of Fight Club do you think is left 'open'?


________________________________________

I don't come from hell. I came from the forest.

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"She's been around all the years believing she's still alive, married, having kids herself, but it isn't real because it is Monica's live."

TRUE, ITS THE CORRECT INTERPRETATION, having in mind scene in which Sophie Marceau character tells story about dead girl who finds herself to be actually dead.

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TRUE, ITS THE CORRECT INTERPRETATION, having in mind scene in which Sophie Marceau character tells story about dead girl who finds herself to be actually dead.


I would be curious to know if they did any test screenings, and what the test screening showed them. I would also love to know if they had an alternative ending in place. While this scene does go quite far in explaining the movie, I still feel as if the ending should have been better. Not in the sense that this answer needed to be explained at all, just that in of itself the ending seemed anti-climatic. As for providing the "answer", I do not care as much that this need be supplied in the ending. However, I would have like a few more clues sprinkled further into the story. The reason I say this is this story (the one Sophie tells) itself may not have caught on easily, or people may just not have connected it. The reason most obvious is that many may have simply ignored this as unimportant simply waiting for the conclusion to provide answers.

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I don't think so, Rocco96. With all that trauma, I took it as if the Director chose to let us know that the series of Sophie's character's hallucinations dimimished the most, but are *still* there. This is somewhat similar to Russell Crowe's portraying of the schizofreniec Nobel prize winner, John Nash. At first, we think Ed Harris and the other guys do exist. Later, we are completely puzzled because we already don't know for sure. And finally, we get the brilliant idea of leting us (audience) see the hallucinations as real as Mr. Nash perceived them, as is the case with most schizofrenic. Rosa Maria was alienated since childhood, after the accident, living and feeling her life as if it were the deceased little blond girl!. Once she starts finding out the truth, the whole thread unravels and she understands...however, she still has the shadow hallucination next to her.
If we were to object something (probably due to the "European" culture) we could say that the "sort-of-diranged" character was never deeply analyzed either by a physician nor a psychiatrist to actually know what was happending.
Notwithstanding the above, I liked the film very much.

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Good post, casch :)

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I don't think there's anything in the movie to support the "ghost" interpretation. It seems much more to be a psychological thriller than a supernatural one.

Jeanne was killed in the accident, and Rosa-Maria started to live her life. Since her own mother had abandoned her, she needed a mother to love her. She continues to see her "adoptive" mother as her real mother because that's who she really wants/needs to have love her.

Jeanne's mother, in her grief, allowed it to happen because she in turn needed a real daughter to love (though she never fully and truly loved her, as revealed in the scene where she tells Jeanne to "pretend to love" the children).

Rosa-Maria became so immersed in this new life that she forgot who she really was, even seeing herself as Jeanne. But Rosa-Maria was still buried inside her, and when she started to write about her childhood, it began to come back to her, and she started to see the reality beneath the delusional fantasy she had built.

The ending simply showed that the two parts of her personality were now peacefully co-existing.

I thought it was brilliantly done and am distressed that so many people seem not to have gotten it.

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I don't think there's anything in the movie to support the "ghost" interpretation. It seems much more to be a psychological thriller than a supernatural one.

Jeanne was killed in the accident, and Rosa-Maria started to live her life. Since her own mother had abandoned her, she needed a mother to love her. She continues to see her "adoptive" mother as her real mother because that's who she really wants/needs to have love her.

Jeanne's mother, in her grief, allowed it to happen because she in turn needed a real daughter to love (though she never fully and truly loved her, as revealed in the scene where she tells Jeanne to "pretend to love" the children).

Rosa-Maria became so immersed in this new life that she forgot who she really was, even seeing herself as Jeanne. But Rosa-Maria was still buried inside her, and when she started to write about her childhood, it began to come back to her, and she started to see the reality beneath the delusional fantasy she had built.

The ending simply showed that the two parts of her personality were now peacefully co-existing.

I thought it was brilliantly done and am distressed that so many people seem not to have gotten it.

This is exactly it. I find it quite funny that people seem to think this was a ghost story, when there were no ghosts at all in the film. All in all, I think it was a striking film, and had me guessing up until the very end. I fully enjoyed that the ending wasn't all doom and gloom, but rather now that Jeanne/Rosa-Maria had come to terms with her fantasy, she was able to adapt back into her old life rather successfully.

"You left your kids in the car?!"
"Hello, I cracked the windows."

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Just finished watching this, and BenMused took every word out of my mouth!! I 100% agree!! I also think that the reason she saw her husband, Teo looking like her bio brother was just her mind! Her conscious couldn't completely let go of some things that were comforting to her from her past. Even her son she saw in the beginning looked like a mini version on her brother and her daughter in the beginning looked like Rose Marie. The mind can play tricks on us, especially when we are not able to completely forget! There are always parts we WANT to forget and then others we can't let go of.

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I don't think there's anything in the movie to support the "ghost" interpretation. It seems much more to be a psychological thriller than a supernatural one.

Jeanne was killed in the accident, and Rosa-Maria started to live her life. Since her own mother had abandoned her, she needed a mother to love her. She continues to see her "adoptive" mother as her real mother because that's who she really wants/needs to have love her.

Jeanne's mother, in her grief, allowed it to happen because she in turn needed a real daughter to love (though she never fully and truly loved her, as revealed in the scene where she tells Jeanne to "pretend to love" the children).

Rosa-Maria became so immersed in this new life that she forgot who she really was, even seeing herself as Jeanne. But Rosa-Maria was still buried inside her, and when she started to write about her childhood, it began to come back to her, and she started to see the reality beneath the delusional fantasy she had built.

The ending simply showed that the two parts of her personality were now peacefully co-existing.

I thought it was brilliantly done and am distressed that so many people seem not to have gotten it


BINGO!

You've summed it all up very nicely, wolfgirl6 :) I was quite satisfied with the film ~ so many times, with films that have that kind of "what the h is going on here? is this a dream or something?" vibe/structure, I'm usually disappointed ~ in that the explanation has some kind of 'supernatural' basis (which doesn't usually interest me), but this film did a good job of 'justifying' all of its weirdness, imo :) It makes complete sense, psychologically, and nothing really felt like a 'cheat' for me. I enjoyed it quite a bit.

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rocco, i agree, i think monica was living the dead jeanne's life and started remembering. at the end we see that monica now knows who she really is, but isn't forgetting the real jeanne and the real one is with her "in spirit" since they were best friends. where as after the accident monica took jeanne's role unaware of who she really was.

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I got an idea of what might have happened, but i got the same unanswered questions as you do.

So.. the 2 girls at the age of 8 were childhood friends and one day, on a road trip with the french family, the french girl (the blonde one, Jeanne) was killed in an accident. Ever since, the italian girl (Rosa Maria) lost her memory and comfused her life with the life of Jeanne (possibly from a post traumatic shock). She begged the french mom to raise her since she thought she was Jeanne, and so the french mom did (another person with a post traumatic shock who couldnt come to terms with the loss of their own child). That's why her memory as Sophie Marceau is non existent before her 8th year of age and she can't remember anything. I guess the italian family never got aware of that and thought their daughter was the one that got killed, that's the reason they said Rosa Maria as Belucci couldn't be alive because she was dead. However, as the years passed by, and while she was trying to find out about her childhood (that was the action that triggered the whole revelation), Rosa Maria started having flashes from reality, waking her from her long-term illusion state, and slowly discovered she was not Jeanne, but Rosa Maria instead. My interpretation of the ending was that she finally came to terms with the loss of her childhood friend, and pretended she was near her, feeling her still close, giving her the inspiration she needed.

My unanswered questions were, how in the world could she "visualize" her own brother's face so perfectly, without having seen him in his present age.. ok, i get it about her true mom, but her brother.. that doesnt make sense. Also, the kids.. why were they different?

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She doesn't visualize her brother's face though. She visualizes her husband as her brother as an adult. I was a lil confused by this at first too.

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Sophie was adopted by the French woman because her mother chooses her husband over a bastard daughter. We cannot know why the French woman, although already being the mother of one girl, decided to take the Italian girl to home, but this isn’t the point of the film. At some point in her early life, she survives a car clash that takes the life of her adoptive sister. The French woman leads her to believe she could replace her legitimate daughter. And she spent the last years of her childhood and adolescence like this, growing up believing she was truly her daughter. When she starts to write her memories, she felts some things didn’t join together and her crisis starts. To me the ending was a symbol of a woman knowing her past, forgiving her mother and trying to build an identity to herself from all that she lived upon that moment.

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You are right... this is how the director meant it. I just read an interview with the director (in french)and as far as I understood her point of view (without having seen the movie). You can read the interview at:http://fr.movies.yahoo.com/06122009/30/entretien-avec-marina-de-van-0.html

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When a director or a writer try to clarify something thats mean he/she already know something has been missed.

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jpsosa, you have a firm grasp on this film. Please help me understand! Is the story of Jeanne-Monica's acceptance of her true identity as Rosa Maria and extrication of the fictive construct of Jeanne? Or is it the story the girl Jeanne who must untangle her identity from that of her replacement, Rosa Maria. That is to say, is this film a ghost story or simple identity crisis? thanks!!!

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[deleted]

"Something's uncertain, still: why did Jeanne's "fake" life (in which she's played by Sophie Marceau) contain Rosa-Maria's brother as her husband? And why did her children change too?"

I think her mind is reaching for anything familar to anchor the new perception of reality too. Her mind used what it thought her brother would look like as an adult for this template. It just so happens her mind was correct in how her brother would look like. Not at all out of the realm of possiblity. Her mother may have many times that her baby brother looked like thier dad and Rosa's mind uses that to construct the adult brother.

Why did the children change...My guess is she was imposing how Jeanne looked as a child on her children. As such when the change happened they started to look like her instead of how she remembered Jeanne.

"I'm not sure I understand which action triggered the personality-clash between her two "sides" and start the "transformation"."

The whole event is triggered when she becomes so wrapped up in the details of her childhood. Her mind is trying to unravel the memories of Rosa from the memories of Jeanne.

I have seen others ask why the strange arm movements in the reflections. My guess is this one of the girlhood games she and Jeanne would play...kind of like how children play the repeat game or the hand clapping games. The reflections were merely the first attempt her mind was using to try and unravel rosa from Jeanne.

I have also seen the questions of why the blisters on the arm and why the distortion of rosa's body after looking in the mirror in the italian house.
My guess is she knew she was going crazy. She knew there were 2 of her. To rationalize this her mind made it seem that her body was splitting into two.



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The hand gestures puzzled me. That could be an explanation. But that still doesn't make a lot of sense. It's another confusing detail, like the brother/husband.

In the end I don't think this film worked. The first half or so was brilliant, but the conclusion seemed too pat, and didn't seem to explain a lot of what was in the film very well.

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Spoilers ahead:

Rosa Maria (the Italian girl) was given over to Jeanine's (the French girl) family. Perhaps mama had an affair and because she was rejected by her mother's husband because she was not his, the mother decided to give her up. This is Italy after all.

While driving with the new family to their home and a new life, they have an accident. Jeanine dies and apparently, her new mom's husband dies. She has no memory of her previous life and for whatever reason begs her new mom to call her Jeannine. The new mom missing her own daughter begins calling Rosa Marie by her dead daughter's name. The new Jeannine over the years has asked her mom a lot of questions about her early life. The answers apparently never satisfy her.

As an adult, something begins to trigger her memory. It may be a car accident that she witnesses or sees the aftermath of at the beginning of the movie. Maybe it was her editor telling her, her attempt at writing an autobiography was boring and awful. She sees changes in herself, husband, her family, her mother, her surrounds, and at times sees a little dark-haired girl (her real self).

In the end she realizes she had been living the imagined life of the real Jeanine if she had lived. In reality she began to see her real life husband and children and self. At the end she accepts the "ghost" of her past and the imagined life of the dead girl had she lived. With the ending showing her real self and the long-dead girl (now an adult in her mind) typing a story side by side, the assumption would be she can now be able to write an autobiography with her recovered memories of who she really is.

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To paulek: Thank you..............You are the only one to give a clue to her husband and children. I was so confused on this, know I can't wait to see it. Know one including reviewers has spoke on this what would seem very important info.

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Everything is in the perception of Jeanne.
She thinks she knows nothing before she was eight.
The fact is she subconsciously knows a lot.
She has worked upon a book which is not a biography (she is good at biography) and it is fiction. But in attempting to create fiction she finds it cold and her writing is bad. Because she is trying to create her mind is now attempting to go back into a past she has forgotten.
Everything at first is just her perception of what she is. It is a mixture of what she really is and what she imagines herself to be.
She thinks she is going mad but what is happening is her real childhood starts interfering with her real life and that is what you see as everything and everyone distorts.
The Italian sequence is where we learn what really happened and why it has a traumatic effect when it start resurging. Her mother has an affair. Her mother's husband hates the bastard. Some French tourists/ friends agree to take the kid and she makes friends with the new parent's daughter, Jeanne.
They are very close but are ripped apart by the crash. The trauma makes Rosa- Marie, so entranced by Jeanne, assume her persona in her mind and she keeps this up into her marriage, until the time the film starts and it is all falling apart.
Note how Rosa-Marie becomes the little girl again in her own perception as she grapples with the understanding of what happened.
The reunion in the appartment is a bit of a trick by the director which really will put people off and confuse them.
It is Rosa-Marie who comes back to the appartment but the Director inserts the real Jeanne for an effect. Also you see Rosa-Marie acknowledge the figment Jeanne as she goes into the bedroom to see her children.
The last shot, that of them typing, is Rosa-Marie now at one with Jeanne, writing the fiction and story of,possibly their tale,but more likely a fictionalised account with far more depth, warmth and clarity than the first attempt.
If you understand that everything in this film is Rosa-Marie's perception of herself as the film progresses it might become easier to comprehend.
Anyway, that's my take.

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The only question that remains is which one of the two women she looks like on the outside (in the real world).

Her mother told her to take the highlights out of her hair, which I'm guessing means she looks like the adult Jeanne (Marceau). Yet if she really was Rosa-Marie grown up, she would look Italian (Bellucci). Prehaps we simply don't see the real woman in this movie, just the perceptions she has of herself.

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Intriguing.
Since everything is a perception and that is all we see, she could look like anyone. Probably same age as that is less a perception.

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We know she has highlights, and we know she is Italian. So... most likely she's just Rosa-Marie with highlights. Unless she took those out along the way?

This is the way I see it. All of the changes were showing the correct faces, so it makes sense that she would be the latter of the two women.

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Great take on it,morrowmmm! Exactly what I saw and heard. I thought this was a wonderful depiction, of a broken mind and heart coming to terms with it's past and present. I though this was a GREAT drama/thriller/suspense, and even a bit science fiction for a while there!! I was thinking she was going to be an alien that had forgotten she was an alien from another planet! I really was clueless to where this story was going, until the end! And that is rare. Very happy to find such a gem!

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After the accident, Rosa-Maria identified with and kept living as Jeanne. However, her subconscious still retained the information about who she really was, and when this information began to surface, Jeanne began to loose grip on reality and to doubt her mental sanity. When - in the end - she understood everything, she managed to assimilate both personas, a little bit like how a person with multiple identity disorder manages to integrate all personalities. However, Jeanne could not create a new persona or choose between the already existing two, but they kept living side by side in her (my interpretation of the ending with Jeanne and Rosa-Maria writing together). I don't think that is really possible, so I took it as an artistic license.

Artistic license is also my answer to your first two questions (Maria Rosa's brother as Jeanne's husband and the changing kids).

The transformation was caused by Jeanne's foray into childhood memories for her book.

An interesting aspect is that I believe that such a major trauma after the accident (loosing one's sense of identity) must have had a physical representation in the brain, which would have become apparent through detailed medical investigation (brain scan).

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What confused me was her kids changing... She saw them as more dark haired and dark featured than they really were, but if she really thought of herself as Jeanne, wouldn't it have been the opposite (as in, shouldn't they have changed to more Italian looking when she figured out her past)?

Life's a bitch, but god forbid the bitch divorce me

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That was confusing to me, too. But then again her imagined husband (the one that looked liker her adult brother) was Italian.

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Was her husband and the kids father Italian, if not then that would be the reason they are not dark haired. Maybe they were more of the dad's genes. And even if his hair was dark the kids could have taken the features from some lighter haired relative.

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I took it as Jeanne was a character in a book being written & constantly changed/edited and because she was in the reality of the book/story all changes ( her surroundings, people's faces, her own face ) seemed real & horrifyingly unexplainable from her view point? Sort of a Charlie Kaufman type of plot.

The ghost theories are making me rethink that though. So confused.

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