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Oregon Laws

posted 14 years ago by moviehawg59
7 replies | jump to latest

I just watched this on HBO, and I am ABSOLUTELY, TOTALLY bumfuzzled as to the fact that Oregon and it's lawmakers are still living in a pehistoric era! They had, what, 10-12 pictures of old and new bruises on Wendy, at the time of the crime (shown in the documentary), and THAT, in itself, didn't constitute self-defense? What, 10 holes in walls (half of them Wendy's head size), and THAT'S not self-defense? Half of her teeth gone forever, and THAT'S not self-defense?
Good Lord, people of Oregon ... please get something done about your lawmakers and laws!
Having grown up in a very abusive household, watching my Mom and my little brother, as well as myself, beaten regularly (most times, just because of a perceived "look" on our faces, or something as simple as forgetting to take out the trash, or, in my Mom's case ... looking at another man, when she was never even ALLOWED to leave the house), I KNOW how this family suffered! I saw the incredible love Randy had for his siblings (as I had for my brother), when he "bawled his eyes out" as his little brother read the letter, at the sentencing, and how much he never wanted them to suffer as he and his Mom had! The love he had for them, even when he was still a child ... always hugging them, and kissing them (in the home movies). I know how he hoped they would NEVER suffer his (and his Mom's) pain, because I felt the same.
Here's to hoping these two, SOMEHOW, get their sentences reduced, and that those younger brothers get help, also, because you can't experience this every day (no matter how young you are), and not have it effect you (sometimes, in a good way, but mostly, in terribly bad ways).
And, to the brother (of this abusive, deranged abuser) ... I know you lost someone you loved BUT, there is NO WAY you didn't know what was happening! It's OBVIOUS you two probably grew up in the same kind of situation! And, if you KNEW, and didn't help or intervene, YOU are just as guilty as your worthless brother! Read the words of the GOD you so liberally used in court, and take them to heart! "Do unto others ... (paraphrased, Matt. 7:12)" and "Love your wives, even as Christ loved the church" (Eph. 5:25)!

"I'm gonna hunt for U, I WILL find U, and I will KILL U"! L.Neeson - TAKEN

[–] chriscaulder 14 years ago

I agree with that you say here... it was awful. But legally, you can't use "self-defense" if you took several minutes to decide on murdering someone. That's "pre-mediated."

She said she was going to do it. They prayed in the kitchen, and cried. They walked into the room while he was sleeping. "Are you sure?!" She started the hitting, then Randy followed. Then Randy hit him several more times just to make sure he was dead.

Yes, I do agree that they did the only thing they could to stop the torture. And even though it was wrong, I believe that they had to do what they did.

But again, self-defense can't be used.... for the sole reason that, when you murder someone in self-defense, it's because the act of violence is taking place in that very MOMENT, and you are defending your life.

If she had waited until the next act of violence toward her, but somehow prepared herself for it (having a knife ready, or something), and she stabbed him while he was about to hit her in the face, and as a result, he bled to death from the stab wound, then that could be considered self-defense. Only if you kill someone in the heat of a violent act, to protect yourself, does self-defense count. But it has to be during a violent act.

This was pre-meditated. As the judge said, they both murdered Aaron in cold blood. Yes, it was to save their family. But, they took several minutes to decide to do it, and as Aaron was asleep, he was defenseless.

All in all, though... they did what they had to. I think Aaron was an evil bastard, too... and yeah, he got what was coming to him, that's for sure. But again, the law is the law. Ten years is better than 50. Seven years for Randy is better than life without parole. Really think about it... I think the charges fit the crime. And in a few years, they will be reunited and able to start a beautiful life together, the one the family always deserved and needed.

Great documentary.

[–] moviehawg59 14 years ago

I understand what you are saying, B.C., and you are correct about the "definition" of self-defense, in most states. But, there have been successful "self-defense" cases that were won, even when the abuser was asleep, or passed-out drunk. If the person being abused STILL has the fear of substantial physical harm or even death, resulting after said abuser wakes up, then they COULD, possibly, be justified as self-defense.
Having lived in a very abusive home, I can honestly say that we were ALWAYS in fear of even MORE severe beatings when he woke up (that was always THE worst time)! Yes, there were even times when I thought he might KILL my Mom, when he woke up (because he always said it ... and we were never sure if he would follow thru). If I had been a tad older, I might have considered the same actions.
EVERY beat-down, every emotional battering ... we never knew when one beating could be the last. But, I always felt he would kill Mom before us ... I don't know why.
Those abused know that ANY beat-down could be the last. So, where do we "split the hairs"? While I ALMOST totally agree with your response ... I have to say that I believe that killing the abuser while he is asleep (or passed-out drunk), in SOME situations, COULD, POSSIBLY, be justified as self-defense. Just two different (tho, not by much) opinions, by two different responders, to a sad and horrible question/situation.

"I'm gonna hunt for U, I WILL find U, and I will KILL U"! L.Neeson - TAKEN

[–] GIRobotII 8 years ago

I'm afraid Chris Caulder is correct. Yes, that God-forsaken-worthless-excuse-of-a-man needed to die. He was not even s**t.

However, I'm afraid self-defense is not a valid defense if one takes a few minutes to decide on murdering a human being. That's premeditation

She said she was going to do it. They prayed in the kitchen, and cried. They walked into the room while he was sleeping. "Are you sure?!" She started the hitting, then Randy followed. Then Randy hit him several more times just to make sure he was dead. That's right. Obviously, since he was sleeping, he was thus not able to be a threat right then. Yes, he was a horrible, abusive "person." But to justifiably use deadly force upon anyone, even him, the person has to demonstrate an IMMINENT intention to harm you. They have to do it RIGHT THEN, in the heat of that moment. Then, and only then, can you legally/justifiably use deadly force against them. If she had waited until he did that first, then she could have avoided any legal consequences at all. Aaron got what was coming to his worthless ass. That's a given. Even the judge agreed. But his (judge's) hands were tied by the unalterable fetters of the law, and he had no choice but to give them a sentence, the minimum required by law. The law is the law, domestic abuse or not. The judge couldn't avoid punishing them, but at least he could give them the lightest sentence allowable. At least this way, they can be a family again, once they're all together again.

[–] RamonRazor 14 years ago

The abuser's brother can swallow that bible. That piece of garbage that he is knew his brother should've been terminated. He got what he deserved and now is sleeping with the worms. I wouldn't be surprised if the abuser's brother beats the crap out of his family to think that Aaron's death wasn't justified. EVERYONE knew what was going on but felt powerless to stop it. It was pretty hard to walk this documentary due to the fact of the harsh reality that they (the family) had to survive through. Ms. Wendy is a tough woman for sure! Randy was just as brave for doing what they did to protect the family.

Oregon is definitely in need for an update in laws or just *beep* judges.

[–] Panther74017 13 years ago

While they did take the time to think it out (the premeditation part of it) there are more and more cases of women (and men and children but let's face facts women are more likely to be abused and lash back out at their abuser) taking the law in to their own hands and doing what Wendy and Randy did, and being released because the emotional abuse that comes along with the physical can do enough mental damage that while you do something illegal and premeditated, you are not considered to be in your right mind.

As for saying everyone was powerless to stop it... I don't believe anyone is powerless to stop someone else from being abused. The only person who can't stop it is the one being abused. In the US (as well as many other countries) there are systems that have been set up to get people out of abusive environments. I'm sure everyone will say I am blaming Wendy for not leaving, and I am not, the cycle of abuse is a sad and lonely cycle, most people who are abused don't feel like they can tell anyone fearing more abuse, most abusers isolate the people they abuse, and the psychological damage done, even to the strongest of people, can last years even after a victim is out of the relationship.

The whole situation was sad. It's sad that it got to a point where someone ended up dead, even he was an *beep* because realistically, nothing should ever get to that point.

Guys who wear capes are on Angel Dust Be a hero w/o wearing your underwear outside of your clothes

[–] sam_dean1972 12 years ago

This is the world we're living in. The poor will be prosecuted no matter if they are innocent or how small their crime was. The rich, with their accessibilities to the high profile lawyers, they will walk free

Think Lindsay Lohan, OJ Simpson etc...

Wendy was without all the above. So in the eyes of the court, she is nobody.

'We only against the things we're guilty of'

[–] bucketfreek 11 years ago

While I also agree with your sentiment, you are absolutely wrong about your interpretations of the law. The battered wife syndrome made famous by the Bobbit case, does not apply in this case. As the previous poster pointed out, premeditated murder (by definition, not moral obligation) is never excused by the law. There has not ever been a case of record in the United States in which this was true. I know case law, and there is no legal decision on the books which excuses the premeditated act.

She's out next year by the way, and her son has already been released. You can look up the Grants Pass articles on the subject. I am surprised this did not make more news up here in Portland, by the way.

"I promise to start growin' dope again and get my life back on track."