MovieChat Forums > Ink (2020) Discussion > For those who didn't get it...

For those who didn't get it...

posted 13 years ago by FaIIoutGirl
30 replies | jump to latest

Remember the Terminator? The paradox? The terminator is sent back to the past to kill John Connor in utero, but his coming into the past is the very thing that brings John Connor into existence?

This movie is a little like that.

A man loses his wife in a car accident, his daughter is taken away from him by the courts, so he drowns himself in his work, alcohol, and drugs to cope. When Emma has a seizure and ends up in a comma, he is torn between going to the important meeting or going to the hospital. He chooses the meeting. Emma dies. Wrecked with guilt, John commits suicide. He becomes Ink, roams the dreamworld, forgets who he is, and eventually comes to believe that becoming an Incubus is the answer. He travels TO THE PAST, BEFORE Emma's or his own death, and snatches Emma into the dreamworld, sending her body into a comma. Now, I'm not sure why it had to be Emma he brought before the Assembly, but my guess is, it's a bit of the reversed Biblical Abraham thing: the Incubi want proof of his intention to become evil, and what a better test than to have him sacrifice his own child?

However, the Pathfinder changes the past by causing a chain reaction of little accidents that lead to John being in a car crash. Thus John never goes to the meeting, his daughter never dies, and he never kills himself as a result. Instead, he's brought to the hospital, finds Emma, and realizes she's more important than anything. Simultaneously, in the dreamworld Ink realizes who he is and what he's about to do, and fights the Incubi to save Emma.

Emma never dies, John never commits suicide. Happy end.

The only two things I'm not sure about is, what happens to Ink after the end (does he just disappear because the past has been altered?), and who Liev really was.

Other than that, it was a neat little movie. I wouldn't call it that mindblowing or original or amazing, though. 3,5 out of 5 stars for me.

[–] ElohimLore 13 years ago

Ink as may have realised was John after he committed suicide. Since he saved Emma in the dreamworld, he ceased to exist when John visited Emma at her bedside in the hospital.

Liev is actually Shelly, John's wife and Emma's mother. It's not mentioned but it is implied. Liev knows about Emma and how special she really is. She knows who Ink really is and why he did what he did and what he needs to do.

So in a way, Liev gave up her life for her daughter and in the effort to make Ink (John) realise how much she loved him and that he mustn't give up on Emma. It's at this moment that Ink (John) must save Emma.

Another moment I realised that Liev was Shelley was in the memory John had when he first her.

Look back to when he tried to help Shelly fix her car. He pulls a leaf out of her engine.

Leaf - Liev. Get it? I didn't remember this on my first viewing but I picked it up on the second time round.

Hope that helps. :)

[–] FaIIoutGirl 13 years ago

Yes, I've heard that explanation before. I also heard that Liev could be the grown up Emma from the timeline in which she doesn't die. I'm kind of torn between these two explanations.

[–] chouette69 12 years ago

Liev looks exactly like the mother of John-as-child, who bought their groceries with food stamps during a flashback scene.

[–] aqweius-754-858986 9 years ago

I too thought Liev was Shelly, because when Emma asked: When I die will I be a Storyteller like you? Liev tells her: No, you'll be far greater than that. You'll be much more beautiful. Emma asks: Will I get to see my Mom again?
Liev: Yes you will Sweetie.

I always assumed all Storytellers are former human beings, those who lived in the real world but are now Storytellers "Guardian angels" per say and that Liev was in fact her mother. I did not catch the leaf implication but it is a subtle hint but I also think they may have intended her to be the embodiment of good (a mother figure for the Storytellers). Then again (lol) perhaps that is why the other Storytellers sought her out, whomever guides them may have selected Liev (Shelly) to rescue her and John's (Ink) daughter.

[–] verycoolnin 13 years ago

Thanks for clearing that up, I was just stumped at the ending.

[–] charliebad 13 years ago

Both good explanations about Liev, cheers.

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For every shadow, no matter how deep, is threatened by morning light.

[–] thenicotinefairy 13 years ago

Yeah, I got all of that. What I don't get is:

1) Who is Liev? I suspect she might have been his storyteller, since everybody appears to have one. I don't think she is Emma or John's wife, unless someone noticed a clue to suggest that.
2) Why is he named Ink? I guess it has something to do with storytelling, since ink is what storytellers use to write down stories, but I can't get any further than that.
3) Why is Ink/John so special that both the Storytellers and the Incubi have small armies running around trying to get him on their side? Is it just that he's powerful? If so, why is he so powerful when he's just another tormented soul like so many others? Nobody seemed to care about the man obsessed with wealth or the woman obsessed with fame, even though those two were clearly both in their own mental hell.
4) What is the "much greater thing" that Emma will become, according to Liev?
5) Where is John's wife? We got a tour of the afterlife, and she was dead, so how come she didn't show up?

[–] FaIIoutGirl 13 years ago

Why does everything have to be spelled out? It's open to your interpretation.

1. As I mentioned, I'm not sure about this one. I'm leaning towards the interpretation that she IS his wife. Kind of like in "What Dreams May Come", the Asian woman turns out to be Williams' dead daughter, yet she looks different because she chose how to look.

2. Why is Shadow named Shadow in the Neil Gaiman novel "American Gods"? It's just a name. I don't read too much into it.

3. How do we know there aren't armies of Storytellers and Incubi running around trying to get someone else on their side in some other place and time? We don't know that. Just because the force is strong with Luke Skywalker doesn't mean it isn't strong with some other kid in some other star system. The movie isn't about that other kid, though, so who cares?

4. Again, open to interpretation. Maybe she'll grow up to invent a cure for cancer. Or discover time travel. Does it matter?

5. As I said, I believe Liev is the wife.

[–] feather_jammed_gears 13 years ago

Liev also seems to imply that coming into their world and not your typical afterlife is rare, and making it in wholely intact is rarer still as exemplified by the two Ink has to get codes from and his own flaws/amnesia. That would make anyone highly functioning would be desirable to recruit for your faction in their ongoing conflict. Also Emma's importance is that she's the key to the path he'll take, or rather she is the path itself.

[–] leeandsarahj 11 years ago

Well said.

[–] iamtheher4u 13 years ago

I assumed "Ink" was short for Incubus, which were the nightmare givers. Just my take on it.

[–] Aisyrk 12 years ago

I take it no-one else has spotted that Liev is Russian for lion. What was Emma supposedly in the process of becoming...?

[–] insane_D 10 years ago

Leiv is the wife ...

An anagram for "live" by the way ....

[–] sErpEnt_v 9 years ago

Oh yeah..
..also for VILE and VEIL and EVIL!!

ermagerrrrrd, mind blown!!!

_____
I don't know, Butchie, instead.

[–] vergeofchaos-60-49100 8 years ago

1) I think Liev is definitely John's storyteller. As others have pointed out, everyone seems to have one. Given that "Liev" means Heart of the Lion, and she tells Emma that she is a lioness, I would think that Liev is Emma.

2) So, Incubi are the male demonic counterparts of succubi, and had the ability to induce nightmares. If you consider that dreams and nightmares are both 'stories', then "Ink" is appropriate, the tool of the storytellers.

3) The "Prince" (leader of the Incubi) basically says why- He refers to Ink as "the real prize" and tells Ink that he will be their greatest asset. Probably because of the amount of arse he can kick. the storytellers in the hospital hold off waves of incubi, but Ink himself beat a ton of storytellers. No one cared about the drifters because they didn't make the transition well, and were no longer of sound mind.

4) Perhaps Emma will just become the thing that saves Ink? Liev was also a bad ass storyteller, she probably could've beaten Ink. Given the idea that Emma is Liev, she wouldn't become just any storyteller, she'll become THE storyteller.

5) along the same lines of 'everyone gets a storyteller', she was probably watching over someone else.

My question is what is the assembly? What were they going to do with Emma? Is that the process for creating Incubi? I get that the reason they took her was to make John kill himself and become Ink, but what would they actually do with her?

[–] tonyskipper 8 years ago

I thought that he was named such because he had committed suicide and was therefore 'stained' as many religious texts would describe it. Thus giving him the name "Ink".

[–] feather_jammed_gears 13 years ago

I hate it when I get stuck in a comma, makes it so hard to get to the end of the sentence.

[–] waverlymikea 12 years ago

lol

[–] Cropes 12 years ago

I've never been stuck in a comma before but I did get stuck in a colon once. Very painful for both of us.

[–] CornToTheFlakes 12 years ago

I think you're just plain wrong... I went back and re-watched this wretched movie and the neither John Connor, NOR the terminator were anywhere... I mean, come on! If there had been a terminator, then he woulda blasted Ink's A$5!

I think you need to get a grip, hth.

[–] FaIIoutGirl 12 years ago

LOL.

[–] dagaul101 12 years ago

I agree that the movie was pretty good, albeit not unique, but told pretty well all things consideringSource:Movie Review For Inkhttp://moviereviews.noskram.com/2009/11/movie-review-for-ink

[–] wjm1962 12 years ago

Te possible question to what INk represents... If Liev is Shelly and Emma his daughter, could it be that Ink represents Kin?

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] majd_selbi 11 years ago

I also think that is the most suitable scenario, The indicators I got were:
- Liev knows that Emma values her own life and doesnt want to die
- Liev tells Emma that she is no longer the little girl, she is a lioness since she entered the dream plane (I knew I was right). And tells her that she is destined for something great, far greater than just a story teller (the leader of story tellers, the time shifter)
- since John Connor is being our standard here, the same applies to Emma, the incubus want ink to kill this little girl, because she will grow up to become the leader of the story tellers
- Ink is so special because he is, first, the father of the chosen one, just as he has an important role in either rescuing or killing the chosen one, he also is important in the "dream world". And second, the dream world is the the physical space of the thought, the mind, and it is repeatedly established that John has. Very powerful mind, envading the stock market while he's still young, that's why he was so powerful in the dream world

[–] natebouchard 10 years ago

I'm not sure that thought is the main quality of John/Ink. I would argue he has at least as much if not more importance than Emma. Emma becomes leader of the storytellers (this really isn't up for debate when Liev keeps telling her that she'll become a lioness and Liev is Russian for "lion"). However Ink is in the unique position to be in the company of the Assembly with his daughter, whose death is the reason for his suicide, AND the storyteller she becomes. Normally when people come to the Incubus, they are proud people fallen from grace and seeking numbness. They aren't in a situation to be saved.

Ink is, Emma is as well, and setting a powerful being like Ink loose in the Incubus Assembly ends up killing a huge chunk of them and their leader. This is just as much a happy personal story as it is a devastating blow for the forces of good, all precipitated in relatively innocuous "accidents" which have substantial other-worldly forces behind them. That is VERY much the point of this movie. Small things and personal dramas can have monumental consequences.

[–] alienzen (1929) 2 years ago

It amazes me how many people try to make this movie literal. Ink is a shadow of a future that never happens. You are told that time works differently in the dream world. There are no doubt similar wars going on over the souls of every human being, since time works differently. When Ink asks why Emma's life matters, Liev says "it matters to her". That is all. She is important because every human soul is.
Liev is special because she can undo what has already been done This is explicitly stated. Just like the pathfinder is special because he can affect the physical world.

[–] insane_D 10 years ago

This movie is actually quite a religious one ...

The "good guys" are obviously guardian angels. Everyone refers to them as "storytellers" here, but they each had different titles (aka "The Pathfinder") in the actual movie if I remember. There was only one that was referred to as "The Storyteller" if I'm remembering correctly.

Ink is being drawn to the "other side" to "become numb" ... which is a metaphor for turning away from "The Word of God".
The Storyteller sacrifices herself to save John's soul. Her title as "The Storyteller" obviously tells us that she's a christ figure.

And I'm NOT a religious person by the way ....

[–] natebouchard 10 years ago

I didn't think it was the least bit religious and I'm pretty darn well-versed theologically. This was speaking about archetypal human experiences, which all religious try to speak about, but it was more fundamental and common to human experience than any particular faith.