MovieChat Forums > Entre les murs (2009) Discussion > Racist, sexist teacher, euro-centric fil...

Racist, sexist teacher, euro-centric film


I am amazed at the number of posts focused on the behavior of the students in this film, when the real disciplinary action should have been taken against the teacher. Not only did he consistently debase and publicly humiliate his students throughout the film, he (along with the rest of the faculty) seemed to view this treatment as completely justified. Every time a student raised a hand, he took it as an opportunity to reassert his position of power, to tell them they were simply wrong, had bad ideas, or were speaking incorrectly, instead of taking this engagement as a real opportunity to support each of his students as learners.

The teacher treated very real student concerns about Euro-centrism (his use of the name "Bill" instead of a name more representative of other ethnicities in his class) as an unreasonable and unfounded request. In his completely teacher-centered environment, he seemed to view himself as the only intelligent, thinking, human being in the room. Nearly every comment he made seemed to assert his own self-righteous position as the holder of all knowledge, attempting to share this knowledge with his lowly students. Do these students not have the right to have their own bicultural backgrounds, language, knowledge and experiences as immigrants reaffirmed and celebrated in a French classroom and moreover in French society at large? Or are they simply expected to conform to mainstream, white French ideals, dismissing their own experiences as inferior?


Even more egregiously, he instigated and allowed students to insult each other on the basis of both sex and race, creating an extremely hostile classroom environment. The first incident occurred when a student tripped and inappropriately touched a female student, inciting others to make comments about her breasts. The teacher sat back and watched, effectively condoning this kind of behavior. Later, he encouraged another student to appreciate “cleavage”, and went on to call two girls in his class “skanks”. I can understand why the female students in the class felt uncomfortable. In the final incident, the teacher went so far as to encourage students to engage in a racially charged argument over soccer teams, and on a deeper level, insult each others' cultural identity, all under the guise of learning to “debate”. In such an environment, it is no wonder a physical fight broke out in his classroom.

I do not say all this without a deep understanding for the challenge of teaching in the inner city. I have spent the past 3 years teaching in extremely diverse, inner-city classrooms in the US. I had at one point 6 different native languages spoken in my classroom of socio-economically disadvantaged youth. It is not easy to support and encourage learning in this kind of environment, but there are a few things I know for certain. Every student behavior has a motivation, and if you don’t take the time to figure out what that motivation is, you will never win. This teacher didn’t seem to care about his students, had no empathy for the difficulty they had in trying to integrate into the racist environment of his classroom or French society.

If the worst offense this teacher suffered was being “tutoyered”, then he should avoid at all costs teaching in American inner-city schools. I’ve suffered worse insults from a 9 year old. The power struggles he readily instigated in the classroom simply would not fly here. Based on my own experience with a comparable population, the kids in his classroom were respectful and followed directions. I did not see any student yell “*beep* you” or simply walk off and give the finger, as we say, to the teacher in this film. They all stayed in their seats, and listened when he spoke. This guy had it easy as far as this kind of teaching goes, and he has no one to blame but himself for the lack of success of his students.


That being said, so much of what I saw in this film was heart-breaking to me as teacher. I saw real students, who truly wanted an opportunity to learn, but also wanted to be treated with dignity and respect. Students who wanted to have their own identities reaffirmed, all the way down to their dialect, a perfectly valid though different dialect than that of power in French society. I saw students acutely aware of their own academic weaknesses, and therefore making every effort to avoid embarrassment by acting out, while the teacher seemed to be doing just the opposite by forcing them to recite their work in front of the class and criticize each other

The most disturbing part about this film is that the film-maker and principal actor, so lost in his own racism, sexism, and euro-centrism, actually felt justified in sharing his own “martyrdom” with the world. Yes, I feel sorry for him, but more importantly, I feel sorry for his students. If this film is indeed representative of what is going on in French schools, then the French Ministry of Education needs to take a serious look at educating teachers in cultural sensitivity, appropriate discipline, and respect for students as human beings as well as learners.

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Every line of "charitymj"s critique is dead on. I was over whelmed by how stifling the class environment was. There was an enormous amount of power play going on in the class and Euro centrism and sexism were so pervasisve it was debilitating to watch.
This movie is a must see for anyone interested in Teaching in America or in inner city Europe. It single handedly shows what you must not do and how education has systematically been a complete let down for many, many young people.
I applaud "charitymj"s amazing insight. This gives me a little hope that there are hopefully, plenty of alert, sensitive, talented and dedicated teachers out there, in the trenches, moving mountains - in their small way, and making a difference amidst a system that has systematically failed us all.

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This is some great insight, and really reflects many of my feelings about the film.

I loved the film, and think everyone should see it, simply to get people talking - in the classroom example used for this film, the hostile environment was a two-way street - some of the students treated the teacher with little respect, and over the years he has become so exasperated and bewildered that he does indeed "take revenge" on the students by constantly asserting his power. Despite his claims of never taking revenge, only discipline, he indeed resorts to the same juvenile behavior as his students - and refuses to admit it. Not once did he apologize to the two class representatives for calling them bitches, which I felt was the most profound insight in the whole film.

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[deleted]

I'm with Passta here -- I don't think the teacher comes off as a "martyr" in any way, nor that that's the movie's intention. In fact, I think he is realistically portrayed not as an immaculate canon of reason and correction, but as a flawed human being walking a tight rope between the need of asserting his authority in the classroom (or indulging in a "power play" if you prefer) and his very real desire to teach through motivation instead of punishment and disciplinary measures.

How much he succeeds in this is another story, but we know he's not perfect nor completely confident -- we are witness to his inner turmoil, and we do see him struggle to keep his own temper under control on several occasions (a key early scene has him kicking a chair in rage after being laughed in the face by a student). I personally think he does a very good job considering what he has to endure; his colleagues certainly seem to have a harder time at this.

But racist, sexist, Euro-centric? I saw a teacher trying to give his students a fresh outlook on things, removed from ghetto mentality. I know what the OP is aiming at, but really, sometimes "Bill" is just a friggin' name. For all its warts, the teacher's no-nonsense approach jived with me and I came out of this movie believing this guy and his good intentions.

This was a very good film, liable to spark valuable insights on the education process and the scope of the educators' roles. I feel it deserves more than easy labels.

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Very insightful. Your post gives me a new perspective on the film as a "realistic", and simultaneously deeply disturbing view into what really goes on in this type of educational environment. I definitely agree that this film, in comparison with others of the same genre, is much more sincere and thought provoking than the sugar-coated, happy ending Freedom Writers and the like. The over-simplification of these films prevent the general public from truly grappling with the broader societal issues that come to a head in a classroom like this. Entres les Murs, on the contrary, brings this to the forefront, forcing the viewer to acknowledge the complexity of an educational system that no longer meets the needs of a diverse society.
This was an extremely difficult film for me to watch because I have taught in this and often more difficult situations. Contrary to your response, and maybe I was unclear, I meant to convey that teaching in American inner-city schools is much more difficult than what I saw in the film. Unlike the school where I last taught, the custodians cleaned the classrooms in this film. The students' parents showed up for meetings. The students themselves stayed in their seats and listened to the teacher. Overall, the students in this film were respectful compared to the way American teachers in a similar environment are treated. The emotional stress the teacher endured trying to maintain control of the classroom was real, the students constant challenges (although more respectful than American students) was also very realistic. This film hit very close to home, and as you suggest, maybe that was the intention.
All of that aside, the teacher, while exposing his humanity and inner struggle, was, at the core, racist and eurocentric, and this was something I simply could not get past. As you point out, perhaps this too was intentional, and aimed at portraying the teacher as merely human, imperfect as the rest of us. The real issue for me with the film was more that I think most teachers in a similar environment are aware of the innately flawed, racist system in which they work, and are actively working to change it. In contrast, this teacher did not once try to value his students unique perspective or cultural background, or empower them as important contributing members of a society in need of change. He did not value their experiences as immigrants in the inner-city (although in France, the inner-city environment of this film is actually the "banlieu" or suburbs). I agree that solving these problems is a much broader issue, but nonetheless, it was frustrating to me to see the teacher not realize his own complicity in a flawed system, nor his agency in making this change.
In any case, if the aim of the film was to generate discussion, it was indeed a success. By the way, I never would have guessed you are not a native speaker. Your written English is arguably better than mine!

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Interesting posts Chatirymj.

Being French, I do not know how much you know about the French educational system. That knowledge is important to understand the fine issues in this film.

The school depicted there is inner city (poor 20e arrondissement of Paris, I cannot afford to by a flat there, too expensive). Used to be workers but now immigrants. The kids are not all disturbed. Most of them are pretty normal, with normal parents, not so bright perhaps. But one of them says he wants to join Lycée Henri IV, which is one of the best in Paris. He might well make it. Louise is a young jewish girl, and she gets praises for her school work. Her parents are probably quite well off. Esmeralda is a tough cookie, but she is smart. Point being that about five students wreck the whole class, which otherwise would be quite normal.
50 years ago when I was in high school, things were far from ideal, so bad behaviour from 13-15 year olds is nothing new under the sun.
Oh and by the way, not one hint of drugs there ! In the worst French schools, in the suburbian cités, I am told kids deal openly in the playground, and most bring a knife with them in class...

All these kids are forced to stay in class for general studies until they are sixteen (the worst students will study another year and leave school, meaning the others will be able to study a bit more normally.
The French system is supposed to be mainly focused on learning a core set of things, one of them is to speak French normally. Learning how to recognise familiar and formal language, for example, my kids did in primary school, but they were native speakers. More difficult for immigrants, although most of these kids are born in France.
So you got a subnormal class, wrecked by a few troublemakers, and they are way behind on their learning. In that context the teacher (a normal teacher, not a special one for difficult kids), is reasonable entitled to believe he knows it all, this is what he is paid for ! Apart from a couple of rebels, most students seem reasonably happy with that status. The French system tries to bring everybody up to speed, and in the past has succeeded very well. Now to what level of effort should you go to get everybody on board ? Most teachers seem to be happy to leave Suleiman on the roadside, while they are taking Wei along because he and his parents are really motivated. That teacher did his utmost, and he may well be wrong, better wait for the spark to come.

All these people and their parents came to France to enjoy a free life, better economic conditions, etc. So they must fit in. The French model is integration (that is insertion first, followed by acculturation and integration). It is not the role of the school system to take into account cultural backgrounds, but to give young kids clues to survive in their environment. Paris theaters are full of African shows, most French humorists are from Algerian origin, why should the school teach anything else but French knowledge and values (maths are the basis of French teaching, that is not eurocentric !).

I grant you that he is arrogant, making jokes and acerbic comments is not pedagogic, but he became a teacher because of academic excellence, not because of special teaching ability. Yet he seems to succeed reasonably well.
Now racist ??? I don't remember the discussion about soccer in enough detail, but it was not particularly racist. And he was trying to teach these guys how to debate calmly, which drew a very beautiful comment from Karl (the very black guy from the Antilles). Whatever, the issue is more complex than you describe.

Sexist may be. He allows Suleiman to insult Esmeralda without correcting him, but the joke about cleavage is not such a bad one in France. As to name calling (skank), the whole affair revolves about the fact that the young generation assumes "pétasse" to mean a prostitute ("correctly" called a "pouffiasse"), whereas in my generation it was much more subtle than that, a "pétasse" was an arrogant stupid woman who attempted to fart higher than her a***le.

At the end of the day, the main problem about teachers (and this film) is that education should never be considered as a time slice of one year (or three or four). It is a lifetime process, and a child who is difficult at a given age can be sweet at another. You learn very little at school or otherwise that you did not know before, somehow. If you never asked yourself a particular question, you will never learn anything about the answer. And everything one learns at school is learned during one particular year, with one particular teacher with whom some resonance occurred. So I believe the students may well remember that year and that teacher, in spite (or because) of his arrogant attitude, because someday they will understand what he was trying to achieve (lift them out of mediocrity). My prognosis is that Esmeralda and a few others will get somewhere good in life. Even Suleiman might become a photographer or something like this.

So yes, the teacher is flawed, made for a different world, but he is trying hard and I find him very likeable. Yes the sudents act like scumbags, but they probably are not (my kids did worse things). The French educational system is flawed (not precisely a piece of news), but it is a haven of peace and tolerance compared to Mr Sarkozy's quotas for expulsions and the very biased job market. Teachers find it quite normal to help fighintg Wei's parents deportation.
And last but not least, the film is very well made, and shows things we cannot see everyday. Remarkable achievement.






A

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Doodlebuger on Mon Jan 31 2011 18:16:34
....
So yes, the teacher is flawed, made for a different world, but he is trying hard and I find him very likeable. Yes the sudents act like scumbags, but they probably are not (my kids did worse things). The French educational system is flawed (not precisely a piece of news), but it is a haven of peace and tolerance compared to Mr Sarkozy's quotas for expulsions and the very biased job market. Teachers find it quite normal to help fighintg Wei's parents deportation.
And last but not least, the film is very well made, and shows things we cannot see everyday. Remarkable achievement.
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I agree! Something I skipped to comment on in my first post is despite all the flaws of the teacher, he tries very hard and completely good-intended.
I also want to add that I have a tendency to see the story of the movie is much more universal than it is being strictly French. That's why the movie is very good in my personal opinion. The director succeeds to bring some very deep issues 'between four walls' and tries to analyze them in educational ground (any kind of education, from school to family), where it is fed and caused and the issue remains very universal. I guess, in many corner of the world, in general sense, regardless it is a third world country or not, USA or France, or elsewhere, the education level (and system) is not better than it used to be. And I believe the source of some very important issues, like racism (subtle or not), sexism, intolerance, misscommunication and resisting to adopting to different cultures, and disrespect, is the education we receive in the school or education we receive in the family, and / or from friends, society we live with.


Last Seen 10/10 Movies:
Kramer vs Kramer
Earth

Last Seen Movie:
Stoning of Soraya 8

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Late reply, but "fart higher than her ar****le" is the funniest expression I've heard in ages. Thank you!

"Hot lesbian witches!"

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France is a very diverse country, and, as you can see from the film, race conflicts, especially between the French and North African/Arab immigrants is a huge issue. The film, or more specifically the school, is eurocentric in that it does not seem to be making an effort to address issues of diversity or value the contribution immigrants are making to French society. Instead, the students seem to be viewed by the faculty as the source of the problem, instead of part of a larger systemic problem based in an innately racist, eurocentric system.

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[deleted]

I'm french, and I can tell you that France is a diverse country.

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[deleted]

Here's to you, Mr Know-it-all : France is the most diverse country in Western Europe. Remember it has the largest Jewish population and also the largest Muslim population in Europe, to start with.
More information here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_France#Ethnic_groups
and more especially these parts :
French law facilitated the immigration of thousands of colons, ethnic or national French from former colonies of North and West Africa, India and Indochina, to mainland France. 1.6 million European pieds noirs migrated from Algeria, Tunisia and Morocco.[4] In the 1970s, over 30,000 French colons left Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge regime as the Pol Pot government confiscated their farms and land properties. However, after the 1973 energy crisis, laws limiting immigration were passed. In addition, the country's birth rate dropped significantly during this time.
Since the 1980s, France has continued being a country of mass immigration...
[...]As of 2006, the French national institute of statistics INSEE estimated that 4.9 million foreign-born immigrants live in France (8% of the country's population)[16]: The number of French citizens with foreign origins is generally thought to be around 6.7 million[17] according to the 1999 Census conducted by INSEE, which ultimately represents one tenth of the country's population. (Ranked by the largest national groups, above 60,000 persons).


"If you had spent much time in France, you'd know"...

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[deleted]

The proportion of immigrants in France (8%) is on par with other European nations such as the United Kingdom (8%), Germany (9%), the Netherlands (18%), Sweden (13%) and Switzerland (19%) : right ! So France is at the same level than the other European countries enjoying the highest immigration rates. Still, you won't believe that France is a diverse country.
And you forget just one "minor" detail : you also have to add to that figure all the people who hold now a French passport but have nervertheless a foreign origin. And that makes a lot, believe me.

Now, here are more accurate figures :
http://www.immigration.gouv.fr/spip.php?page=dossiers_det_res&numr ubrique=242&numarticle=1458
The little French flag in the upper left corner indicates that this is an official web site -- so these are official figures (oh yes, by the way, I wish I could link to other sites rather than Wikipedia, except that most statistics and studies on the French population are in French -- so sorry if you cannot read all this, I didn't mean to be rude). OK, it says clearly that the number of immigrants living in France is now (or rather was in 2006) 5 millions. And the number of foreigners amounts to 3.5 millions. So it is almost 10 millions people for a total population of 60 millions. Not bad.
The comment says that "Deux étrangers sur cinq sont originaires du Portugal, d’Algérie ou du Maroc ce qui porte la population des ressortissants d’un pays de l’Union européenne à 25 à 1,2 million et celle des ressortissants d’un des trois pays du Maghreb à 1,1 million." (Two foreigners out of five are either from Portugal, Algeria or Morocco. The number of immigrants coming from the European Union (25 countries in total) amounts to 3.5 millions and the number of immigrants coming from Maghreb amounts to 1.1 millions"). Not bad either.

Oh, by the way, how do you explain that France has the largest muslim population of all Europe ? I suppose that all these Muslims are newly converted European born people, uh ?

"Did your attention span shut down after 3 sentences?" I return your question. Why did you cut your quote after the first segment ? I would have liked to see the whole paragraph mentioned properly as follows : Most of the population from immigrant stock is of European descent (mainly from Italy, Spain, and Portugal as well as Poland, Romania, Russia, Ukraine, and the former Yugoslavia) although France has a sizeable population of Arabs, Berbers and Africans from its former colonies, the proportion of immigrants in France is on par with other European nations such as the United Kingdom (8%)[18], Germany (9%)[19], the Netherlands (18%)[20], Sweden (13%)[21] and Switzerland (19%)[22]. Outside of Europe and North Africa, the highest rate of immigration is from Vietnam, Cambodia and Senegal. But I guess it is not diverse enough for you, right ?

Morever, I would like to add that an immigration that comes either from Portugal or Spain or that comes from Poland is not at all the same one. All these people may all look the same to you, but believe me, there are some differences between Latin and Slavic people. Plus they didn't come here for the same reasons. Unless "diversity" means "of a different race" to you ?

And well... What can I say ? It's been more than 40 years that I live in this country. I have studied its history, traveled all around. All this doesn't make me a specialist, but hey -- I have eyes to see and read, and I think I know my country a little better than you do. Unless you consider it is just a matter of opinion.

Finally, I would like to mention the interesting case of Roubaix. I guess you know better than I do where this town is located, since you know everything about France. Well, just an indication : it is not close to Paris nor to Marseilles. To me, it is just the city next door. For your information, in Roubaix, more than 100 nationalities are represented. And I doubt that all the immigrants come from Europe. Algerians, Turks, Italians, Indians, Western Africans, Cambodians, Vietnamese, Moroccans, Poles... you name them.
But Roubaix is just one example. I just know it because I've been there a hundred times. You can check also Saint-Etienne, Lyons, Metz, Strasbourg...

Now I understand that stating that there diversity in France is clearly a problem to you -- so much a problem that you will deny the facts. Why is that so ? There is no point at making such a fuss about it, in my opinion, unless admitting your mistakes is just too painful for you (which is, I believe, pretty much the case). Let me add that I won't argue with you any longer on that subject. I have proved my point, there are statistics on the French official web sites (for those who can read French) and all the people who have traveled a little around France know what I'm talking about. What may confuse you is that France doesn't publish ethnic statistics (strictly speaking). That's the law. Basically, there are only two types of people in France : the French and the foreigners. That is why it is hard to know accurately what percentage of colored people live in France (is this your point ?). It is said (but then again there are no official figures) that about 5 or 6% of the population in this country is Black. If I compare this to the figure you gave for the UK, it is very similar.
.... And yet, France is not a diverse country. Ha.

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I don't think I have to add much to GrandeMarguerite's post, but since daddysarm is so focused on numbers and proof, I will add my two cents.
I have to state I'm not french, although I lived there for a while, but I've dealt with immigration in Europe during my studies and focused mainly on France.
First of all, we have to make clear that diversity does not equal immigration, at least not completely: a country who is experiencing recent waves of immigration will have higher statistics regarding residents of different nationalities; Italy, my native country, comes as an example and was also cited by daddysarm as having the same % of immigrants as France: migrants started coming to Italy in the mid-80's so the phenomenon is quite recent and still growing. As a result, we sure have a high % of foreigners (and although they do not live all in Rome, stats reveal that they mostly work/live in large cities: Brescia, a town of around 500.000 comes to mind as one of the most diverse in Italy but the highest % of foreigners are living in Rome, Milan and Turin), but it doesn't necessarily mean we are more diverse than France: you can check the data on the INED (Institut national d'études démographiques), where it says that 1 french citizen out of 4 has at least one grandparent who wasn't born in France, whilst Italy has probably 1 out of 25 citizen who can claim the same.
Also, we have to remember that France has outlawed any type of census that inquires on race and/or ethnicity, so there is no official and definitive statistic concerning race, like it happens for the US Census, where a person is often required to define his ethnic origin.

One of the things that are most easily forgotten when speaking about France and diversity is that it is one of the few countries in Europe to adopt the "ius soli" when it comes to newborn citizenship: if a baby is born in France he will obtain french citizenship, thus not counting as a foreign/immigrant citizen, opposed to what happens in other EU countries. Italy, once again, serves as an example of a place where a son of immigrants, although born and raised in Italy, will obtain Italian citizenship only after turning 18, keeping the parents' citizenship until then: the so-called "ius sanguinis" that affects statistics: around 15% of foreigners living in Italy are actually born in Italy.

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"1 french citizen out of 4 has at least one grandparent who wasn't born in France, whilst Italy has probably 1 out of 25 citizen who can claim the same."
While it is said quite often than 25% of the French population has recent foreign origins, I didn't know the figure for Italy. Wow! Thank you for the comparison, I think it says things better than I did.

Let me add that massive immigration has started about a century ago in France. Like rc615 says, you have to keep that in mind when you compare today's immigration rates.

Now there is a mistake I would like to correct. "One of the things that are most easily forgotten when speaking about France and diversity is that it is one of the few countries in Europe to adopt the "ius soli" when it comes to newborn citizenship: if a baby is born in France he will obtain french citizenship, thus not counting as a foreign/immigrant citizen, opposed to what happens in other EU countries. Wrong: people born in France of foreign parents obtain the French citizenship when they turn 18 (if they are still in France by that time). So it is pretty much the same system as in Italy.

I chose Roubaix as an example, knowing that is a large and industrial city (but very far from Paris and Marseilles). Now, I come from a small town (20.000 inhabitants) which is not regarded as "ethnically diverse". When I was in senior high school, my classmates were all French, but for one girl who was of Indian origin and was born in England (I remember her accurately because she had better grades than me in English, and I hated this!). Among the French pupils, most of my classmates had Flemish names (only normal, because we were so close to the Belgian border). There was also the usual small bunch of girls and boys of Algerian descent (I think it was already the second generation), then a couple of pupils with an Italian name, another couple of kids with Polish names (the North of France has the largest Polish community of all Europe -- outside Poland of course), one Asian girl (a Korean girl adopted by French parents) and one Black girl (I remember her also because, like the Korean-born girl, she was the only colored girl I knew when I was a kid). Remember: that's what people call in this country "not diverse". It's nothing if you compare it with the population of large cities.

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thanks for your post, grandemarguerite, and in particular for correcting me on the ius soli issue. my mistake there which coincidentally i found out today (sadly, while reading about Sarkozy's idiotic proposal of revoking french citizenship to felons of foreign origins...but it's not the point in this topic), and i logged in to rectify my earlier entry.
Thx again!

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[deleted]

Good points rc615

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[deleted]

[deleted]

OK, facts. You want facts? I want facts too.
While rc615 and I have provided figures and concrete facts, so far you've only been good at insulting people (may I ask you why?) and nothing but.
When people resort to insults and slurs, it is because they lack arguments.

So far, you've made your points with... nothing. Absolutely nothing. Only what you saw.
The problem is that reality is not what you saw and felt, but also statistics, clear examples. Solid ground.
So I'd like to see concrete examples, names of countries and places, etc.

For your information, I have visited so far 12 European countries (in Western, Central and Eastern Europe: Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxemburg, Germany, Spain, Italy, Greece, Ireland, UK, Poland, Hungary, Czech Republic), and 4 non-European countries (that includes a long stay in the US -- I think that almost 3 years is what most people would call "long" -- something I have mentioned before on this Website and which you would have noticed if you didn't simply troll on other threads just because you dislike people who don't agree with you).
And the only French region I've never been to is Lorraine.
So why making assumptions on people you don't know?
Thank God, as we say in France, ridicule never killed anyone.

That at least four people on this thread completely disagree with you is of little importance to you (that's probably a conspiracy), but let me say this: you are a minority here, and unless you can't prove your point, I doubt someone will ever believe you.

I typed in Google "France" and "diversity", and in less than 2 minutes, I found this:
"With an estimated population of 64 million people, France is a diverse country. About 56% of the French population claim to have foreign background, making France one of the most ethnically diverse countries in Europe. The reason for this is immigration: old and more recent immigrants have come to France from the five continents. In 2005, the greatest number of France’s immigrants came from China and the United Kingdom. France has 4,9 million immigrants, of whom 2 million have French citizenship. The country is also the largest asylum destination in Europe. Population growth is by natural growth, and so too is immigration. In 2003, France's natural population growth (excluding immigration) was responsible for almost all natural population growth in the European Union. (Migration Policy Institute, 2006.)"

As rc615 wrote so aptly, the problem is that France has outlawed any type of census that inquires on race and/or ethnicity, so it is basically impossible to know whether France is the most diverse European country or one of the most diverse European countries (still, it would in the top 3). Hence my use of "most"/"the most" (but I think I could teach you some French too, because "most" can be also translated by "la majorité de" or "presque tout"!!!).

Now prove the contrary, with facts.
And if you resort to insults again, I will simply put you on ignore, because that's not what I call "discussing", and it will only prove that you can't find anything better than rc615 and I have stated.

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For the record, the French government does not ask any questions in the census about race, ethnicity or religion, so all "statistics" regarding these are pure guesswork and should not be taken as authoritative. The one thing we do know is what percentage of the population is foreign-born (8%) and where this population came from. Note that this figure does NOT include people born in the French West Indies (as Carl's family was, and probably several other black students), French Guiana, Réunion, or the overseas territories. They are counted as native-born citizens.

Furthermore, the great wave of non-European immigration (principally from North and West Africa) occurred during the 1950s and '60s. This wave has produced a sizeable French-born population, which we can see in the movie (and if you follow soccer, you'll see that over half of the French national team comes from non-native background).

France probably has the largest non-white population of any European country, and virtually any large city has sizeable black and Arab (and sometimes Asian) populations. The exact size of this population is not known, however. Whether or not you consider France "diverse" is up to you, but by European standards it certainly is.


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What a sad little child you are.
Grow up.

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I'm french, and I can tell you that France is a diverse country.


Too diverse, FTFY.

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In Dubai, which is mainly made up of immigrants, they are not allowed to vote, they aren't taught how to read or write the language, they are expected to leave once done with work. No one complains(at least no RIOTS lie in Paris)
In France, they try and teach the the LANGUAGE and CULTURE of the nation the immigrants live in and what do they get for that effort?
Called racists, called Eurocentric, inflexible, and isolationist who don't respect other contribution.
The fact that France even bothers with education is prod that the immigrants are tolerated because of the contribution of their parents.
But, for the effort they get riots, death threats from insane clerics, etc Really makes you rethink the wisdom of helping others. Give the unwashed masses and inch- they want a mile- this is what the native Dubai leaders know. Helping others in this world is a dangerous business which usually blows up in the givers face. Sad....
Methinks it has to do with the sin of pride; simply by helping an Algerian immigrant, the French Hellers are already perceived as this "who think they're better".

I would love to ask any profession viewing this thread whether they would be able to handle a job like this kind of teaching? No, doesn't matter how tough you are. A teacher is someone who wants to make a difference, and failing so much has to wreck havoc on you.
The root of this problem isn't education. It's complex, with reasons such as concentrating economic groups into separate urban islands(again due to a complex of probs), hurt pride on a mass scale, harmful urban cultures influenced by the economic megaforce of illegal drugs created by prohibition, loss of living wages with a rising cost of living which makes it necessary for both parents to work to keep an apartment(which explains why the 1st gen does better, coming from a family that had time to raise children and the 2nd gen were the ones who rioted, growing up in non families), racism both ways,
IMOP the teacher is the only true mediator between these forces, to a disastrous effect. It's enough to ask a teAcher to spend their working hours with the holy terror that is a teen.
Private schools work better because the parents have a whole suite of benefits for their kids, which allows teaching and exploring to be done in the school NOT management of poor teens. Half Hispanics won't graduate US high school- just let them be truant and the other half will suddenly be going to harvard or Yale. The maintenance of illusions of equality cause massive harm to society.
I guess I get more and more libertarian as I get older. The school system needs to reflect the fact that life simply isn't fair, and let trouble students drop out and join the drug gang they will join anyways,so at least we aren't spending tax $s on a worthless education only to spend more onhousing,heating,taking care of, and feeding-not to mention court fees- a convict
Either trash the drug laws and just spend the freed up tax $s helping blunt partial or full unemployment through free adult ed etc or just allow urban students to quit.

I don't have a hard heart- just the opposite-- which is why I advocate opening ones eyes......

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Why shouldn't a European film about a Eurpean country with a French school system be Euro-centric? It's about a school that is trying to teach children of immigrants how to fit into French society and have the linguistic and cultural tools to survive and even thrive in that society. The problem is with the parents, mostly of the most obnoxious troublemakers in the class, who have not taught their children self-discipline or respect for their elders. Instead, a handful of rude, disruptive children come to the school and do not respect the teacher, the school, the classroom or the rights of any of the other children to get an education. The whole experience is a power struggle for them where they try to substitute their own 14-year-old authority for that of the teacher and prevent anyone from learning. Most of the time the teacher bends over backwards to allow the children to voice their own views and ask them to explain them further. Instead of insisting on discipline and respect and just teaching them what he knows, he engages them and asks them what they think. Due to a few bad apples this turns into chaos and the motivated students are not able to get much out of the lessons. The students spend the whole time questioning whether they should even be learning what he is teaching. It will not surprise anyone later when these kids grow up and cannot get jobs and are then outraged that no one will hire them. Who would hire someone who is unwilling to learn, unwilling to participate and respect others?

After living with this classroom chaos for a long time the teacher becomes exasperated and ends up behaving badly himself. It is no wonder that his patience breaks down in this environment, but one wonders whether he should still be teaching if he has reached that point.

The bottom line is there can be no learning without discipline and respect. The motivated students will learn no matter what, so the environment of respect and self-discipline has to be created for the students who don't want to be there and who don't want to learn. Once they have learned enough that they can become more confident in themselves they may be more motivated to learn more. They may also be able to question and debate points with the teacher from an informed, rather than an aggressively ignorant point of view.

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an innately racist, eurocentric system.


...says the racist who believes eurocentrism is innately racist. In white countries, eurocentrism is nothing less than perfectly normal, and certainly by no means racist. The only racists here are the folks who support racial diversity in Europe. I suggest you ask Arabs, Black Africans, Chinese or Janapese if they'd like more racial diversity in their countries - which inherently leads to disaster in the long term - see the US and, more obviously, Latin America, which is a Third World cesspool.

Apparently, for Cultural Marxists, Europe is inherently racist because we reject racial diversity - this is why we'll never get along with racists like you: because nobody wants to be replaced.

I'd say "can you be more ignorant ?" but I'm afraid you'd take that as a challenge.

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It was ridiculous that no interpreter was provided for the non-French-speaking mother, whose children had to interpret for her at the parent-teacher conference and also at the disciplinary hearing.

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The original poster is horrendously politically correct. The kids are living in France, not Africa. They must learn to be French and accept Western culture. Otherwise, back to their home countries they go. It is not up to the French to change, it is up to the immigrant. Same as my immigrant grandparents became Americans. They did not come to this county insisting society and schools honor their home country. Ridiculous.

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For the most part you r right. But if u think of the debt owed to Africa for the slave trade and colonization?

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I don't see why anybody should have to atone or make amends for the sins of their ancestors.

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Exactly. And the students shouldn't have to atone or make amends for the fact that their parents are immigrants.

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And I'm amazed that the OP completely missed that that was the whole point of the movie: to show how the school is completely out of sync with today's reality and is failing the students. But teachers like you are also part of the problem. You all believe that you can still be saviors in what is essentially a failing structure. You delude yourself into believing that you can impact hundreds of students who are confronting complex issues of family, language, culture, economics, politics, their own development into adults and you unrealistically expect to do this on an individual basis. God bless you, but that would take an Herculean effort of transcendental proportions. I'm talking a Mother Theresa magnitude.

THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN!

And this is what Bégaudeau was attempting to show. He wasn't trying to say he was right or that he was a hero. The movie goes through a painstaking process to show his flaws, limitations and weaknesses. It was the raison d’être of the film. Kids and teachers like you today unrealistically feel that they should be on equal ground with adults while still being accorded the privilege of childlike behavior and the understanding from adults they interact with. Adults and children are not equals, if they were there would be no need for schools. That does not necessarily imply total impunity for adults in authority roles. Whether kids like it or not, certain behaviors are necessary for society to function and childhood education developes this behavior.

But you'll get no argument from me that schools are failing students. And teachers like the one in the film are merely products of this system. Don't put the whole blame on them for not always being able to perform superhuman feats. Nowadays, problem students are in the majority and worse they now operate as a group against one teacher.

THE SYSTEM NEEDS TO BE CHANGED!

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The first step in changing the system is taking a realistic look at it. The movie does a great job of doing that and it engages the audience and promotes discussion... and the OP (charitymj) starts with an insightful post.

You (mzladymoon) on the other hand insult and discourage him or her needlessly and resort to ALL-CAPS slogans. Have you suggested something meaningful? Do you also have experience as a teacher?

I'm positive charitymj does much more at fixing the system than you do, so if you can't contribute please at least refrain from insulting those who can and do.

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Right on! But what alternatives can one suggest?

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+1

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Good analysis of the film, you convinced me

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Right on daddysarm! Probably the most sensible post/reply on this thread. All this "touchy-feely" approach is endemic and way out of control, resulting in complete disempowerment of the teacher, and ultimately does no favours to students and teachers alike.
Also, parents (not talking about the film, but in the wider society) seem to point fingers at teachers, while doing nothing themselves to encourage their children to take on responsibilty for their learning, as well as, providing moral grounding.
No wondert there are teacher-shortages in many cities in Europe and I dare say, elsewhere.
The OP might want to look at PISA figures (i.e. where the US sits, particulartly with resepect to literacy and mathemathics) before getting so excitable about what the teacher was doing wrong in Entre les Murs.

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