MovieChat Forums > Entre les murs (2009) Discussion > France is the example for the world for ...

France is the example for the world for what NOT to do

posted 14 years ago by trompos
22 replies | jump to latest

While diversity is great, national identity must be preserved, and France has not done well to preserve its identity. I know the simple minded will simply see this as "racist" or "intolerant" and will espouse the virtues of "diversity" but I will say that diversity is great, when one can preserve the spirit of a nation, whether that nation be France, the US, the UK, or Spain.

All that we as outsiders, and I would imagine French people themselves, see as French can be attributed to the past. Before I visited the country I half expected stripped shirt wearing accordion players wearing berets to be everywhere (I'm exaggerating of course, but you know what I mean) instead, every second person was from somewhere else and they made no real effort to become French. Sure many spoke French but they also spoke English and Spanish, it wasn't about becoming French, it as in their best interest to speak as many languages as possible. These people I'm referring to were usually peddlers and hustlers on the streets.

The movie shows that Wei's mother has been deported. Really? In a country with such porous borders as France? A country with little or know immigration policies?

The classroom depicted in the film is representative of a real Parisian classroom. How many REAL French kids were in that class?

Arizona recently passed a great bill. Simply put, if a person comes in contact with the police after committing a crime, that person, if suspected to be an illegal alien, can be asked to show their papers. Of course our dear president knowingly misrepresented the law, and many politicians and people in the media followed suit, but the law is solid and should do a lot to quell the influx of illegal immigrants to the US. Instead of praising Arizona, states like California have boycotted them, so has Ohio. Why? Because they are defending our language, borders and culture? Three things that France has failed to preserve? Well, the language is well preserved, they even have a language police, but what of their culture? What of their borders? Their sovereignty?

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[–] ManFromSanFernando 14 years ago

A law is no match for an economic trend. You conservatards must learn you can't have it both ways: either admit the free market is all powerful and stop trying to legislate morality or admit that the free market doesn't behave as Adam smith predicted and so we must minimize harm through imperfect institutions and people.
One one hand you praise capitalism but then complain when it puts unfavorable externalities at your feet. Be consistent! Globalization is crucial for growth to continue, all countries must find industries which they have the competitive advantage in. Mexico's advantage is a mobile populace, near the wealthiest nation in the world, unemployment, low standard of lving- all which give it an advantage over other countries in workers willing to fill jobs in the US-- we really should just give all these workers free citizenship, then the the demand for unskilled labor in the US would be filled, immigration rates would slow, and Mexico's economy would grow with employed Mexicans sending money back and allowing for more entrepreneurs to start new enterprises o. Mexican soil.
With slavery, we had to fight a war to stop that economic force; what price would we pay to end unskilled,illegal labor?

[–] trompos 14 years ago

What complete fools like yourself don't get is, that not all conservatives think the same. I for one don't give a crap who you *beep* what you smoke, what you drink or anything else. What I do care about is who you kill, so I will stay firm on my pro-life position which is not legislating "morality" it is simply a sound way of thinking, ie, wae shouldn't kill people.

Now, on to the rest of this garbage you posted about. I assume that in this jumbled mess of a post you're trying to say that my position on illegal immigration isn't compatible with my fiscal conservative mindset. While I do believe in Adam Smith's philosophy (if left alone it would work very well) my issues with illegal immigration go way beyond "work" it's about crime, about our sovreignty, about national security.

Now I just want to show you where you're wrong, not so much argue your points, but just show you your lack of knowledge.

"we really should just give all these workers free citizenship"

They basically do that in Europe now, and it's a mess. Capitalism is one thing, having no order or laws is another. I'm a fiscal libertarian, but in order for capitalism , true capitalism to work, we need CIVIL order, you can't have that with EVERYONME getting free citizenship.

"then the the demand for unskilled labor in the US would be filled"

There is no demand for unskilled labor that can't be filled by Americans. When I was in college I haad limited skills and limited work experiance, I couldn't get a laborer job on a construction site to save my life. Why? Because I'm an American and there were Mexicans there to fill that job. I never had a chance to say I didn't want the job, or the pay was too low, I was not qualified, Americans Need Not Apply. When you have people ILLEGALLY here NOT paying taxes and they take my job, I will protet that, not on some commie grounds that says I'm owed a job, but on the fact that that little bastard shouldn't be here in the first place. I don't blame the employer who wants to save a buck, I blame the lacking system that allows the criminals in.

"immigration rates would slow"

Why would it slow? THey would get free citizenship here.

"and Mexico's economy would grow with employed Mexicans sending money back and allowing for more entrepreneurs to start new enterprises o. Mexican soil."

Wrong again El Capitan. See we've had uncontrolled illegal immigration in this country since about the 90s since NAFTA and the economy in Mexico is as bad as ever. And trust me, the US dollars are rolling in. Mexico's second biggest money maker after petrolium is imported dollars. And while we export money, we are IMPORTING poverty and crime.

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[–] karelva 14 years ago

I thought about writing a response, along the lines of "what does abortion have to do with this movie?" but I decided I had many other important things to do with my time instead.

[–] trompos 14 years ago

when did I or anyone mention abortion at any time?

If you love Jesus Christ and are 100% proud of it, copy this and make it your signature!

[–] karelva 14 years ago

********************************************************

What I do care about is who you kill, so I will stay firm on my pro-life position which is not legislating "morality" it is simply a sound way of thinking, ie, wae shouldn't kill people.

********************************************************

You posted that. That was you. It wasn't me, or anyone else. Do you even know what you're saying?

Going back to your original post: I have no idea what you're talking about as far as French culture and language go. All those kids were born in France, and are therefore French citizens. France operates along the sames lines as the 14th amendment in the US. If you're born on the French territory, you're automatically French. I understand that their blackness and brownness might offend your very uber-shiny white sensitivity, but they're French. So what's not to follow as an example? Providing public education to its citizens?

[–] GrandeMarguerite 14 years ago

To Karelva:

"All those kids were born in France, and are therefore French citizens. France operates along the sames lines as the 14th amendment in the US. If you're born on the French territory, you're automatically French."
No, it doesn't work like this in France. Children born in France of foreign parents remain foreign until obtaining legal majority. Moreover, as in most other countries (but differing from the US), children born in France to tourists or short term visitors do not acquire French citizenship by virtue of birth in France: residency must be proven.

[–] karelva 14 years ago

@Marguerite: Thanks, you're right. It's "droit du sang" which is the norm in France vs "droit du sol" which is how it works in the US. I should know, I was born in the US from a French mother and naturalized at the New York consulate of France. It's actually pretty tricky if you're second generation. You are correct. My mistake.

[–] GrandeMarguerite 14 years ago

No problem.
I know it because my father was born in France from foreign parents. He got the French citizenship when he turned 21 (that was at the very end of the 50s)... only to fight in Algeria.

[–] sillyhat 11 years ago

Children born in France of foreign parents remain foreign until obtaining legal majority. Moreover, as in most other countries (but differing from the US), children born in France to tourists or short term visitors do not acquire French citizenship by virtue of birth in France:

This was true, but I don't think it is anymore. I'm almost certain being born on French soil guarantees French citizenship now.

[–] GrandeMarguerite 10 years ago

You're wrong. The French law hasn't changed a bit. Being born in France is not enough to be French. See here:
http://www.expatica.com/fr/essentials_moving_to/essentials/How-to-beco me-a-French-national_18239.html

"If you were born in France
Children born to foreign citizens on French soil can claim French citizenship on their 16th birthday and be granted full citizenship at 18 as long as France has been their main residence for five years since the age of 11. "

[–] psdhart 12 years ago

karelva is right, all those kids must have been 3rd generation (I think)

[–] sillyhat 11 years ago

No, I think it's apparent that most are the children of immigrants - this is made explicitly clear in the cases of Souleymane and Wei, and is probably true for others.

[–] Simon1970 13 years ago

Only if you believe what you read in the tabloids.

http://tabloid-watch.blogspot.com/2011/02/union-flag-not-banned-from-p olice.html

http://tabloid-watch.blogspot.com/2011/03/pcc-agrees-there-is-no-union -flag-ban.html

http://tabloid-watch.blogspot.com/2010/04/mail-gets-cross-about-flying -flag.html

http://tabloid-watch.blogspot.com/2010/05/about-that-ban-on-england-sh irts.html

http://nosleeptilbrooklands.blogspot.com/2009/07/another-wonderful-day -in-mail.html

As the tiniest amount of digging reveals, these PC-gone-mad stories are complete fabrications by the Mail, the Express, the Sun and the others. They stoke the fear, get their "readers" angry and as a result sell more papers.

You would have hoped, that in a country where children are guaranteed a free education from 5 till 16, this sort of thing would be laughed out of existence. Regrettably, the baying mobs are only to willing to believe the lies that are fed to them.

[–] psdhart 12 years ago

Wasn't there a story about sharia possibly being enforced in east London?

edit:just found it http://www.newhamrecorder.co.uk/news/shariah_law_posters_appear_in_str atford_1_976994

[–] Simon1970 12 years ago

That's not a story about Sharia Law being applicable in London.

That's a story about a few trouble-makers (or even just one) illegally putting up posters. If they even tried for a moment tried to follow up their fly-posting with actions, they'd find themselves and their fundamentalist principles in a jail cell.

Again...more scaremongering by the press.

[–] Simon1970 13 years ago

How many REAL French kids were in that class?

When you count all the REAL American kids in your classroom, do you include all the Caucasian looking ones. You know, the ones who look European and not-at-all like the indigenous people of the Americas?

The whole world is on the move. Always has been. Always will be.
And there's always someone who wants the gates closed AFTER them.

[–] CharlesMartel80 12 years ago

"While diversity is great..."

It is? How so? All of the evidence I've seen points to the contrary.

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[–] Scaar_Alexander 10 years ago

I don't know what you were smoking when you wrote your post four years ago, but just to say, almost everything about it is wrong. ^^; Really. From the so called "restrictive immigration policies" (regural deportations, you say ? Half the time we deport an few immigrants, half a dozen associations raise hell) to the "dramatical tightening" of our immigration policies in the 70s (the EXACT opposite happened with the famous "regroupement familial"), including the hilarious notion that France does not promote multiculturalism (we can observe the ALMOST EXACT opposite on television, in magazines, etc.), or that France still uses republican assimilation, two things that were true once, but haven't been for a few decades (mainly since the seventies).

Anyway. Oh, yes, about the movie, since that's what it's about : that pure piece of social-liberal propaganda is an insult to intelligence, culture, civilization, and humanity.

_______________
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- Die lonely.
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[–] PoppyTransfusion 10 years ago

Wei's mother wasn't deported. She was arrested as an illegal immigrant and faced removal from France back to China.

The Arizona bill was punitive and a cynical move to target hispanics. Migration is perceived as a problem when the colour of the migrants does not appeal to the host nation.

I give my respect to those who have earned it; to everyone else, I'm civil.