At the end of the movie, the young and challenging Esmeralda pretends in front of the class that she read Plato ! Anyone believe she did ?
In fact, in the entire movie, she barely looks interested in anything but intellectual books .
Not to say Plato's Republic is a very though book. I wonder how she could manage it.
And she is only 15 or so ...
Hardly.
Agreed. That was the one point that rang false to me -- in an otherwise terrific movie.
shareShe definitely red Plato's Republic.
shareAt 11, I read Les Miserables, not long after I read War and Peace. I was probably around 15 when I took a book of my sisters university studies about suicide. I just remember being very surprised that suicide could be catalogued. From personal experience, I do not find that difficult to believe that you pick a book in the shelf of your house and read it without realizing that it is too much for you.
shareWell, there is two reasons why I think it is difficult to believe that Esmeralda read Plato's Republic.
1. Her general attitude. Through the movie, she presents herself as a sort of macho girl, not interested in much things related to education or knowledge. For example, she criticizes differences (lack of french of the young chinese boy), she laughs during the very serious professors meeting or she just prefers to fight againts others during the class for whatever reasons. She just looks so far to be interested in serious books. But then, she comes back home and, "hey, whats this book wrote 2,000 years before by an old men without any action ? It looks just great" ! I means it makes no sense. Ok, maybe if it was Weil, the only kid of the class that could show some interest it could have some credibility but Esmeralda ... I doubt it. In my mind, there is a biggest probability that she would burn it, not read it.
2. The difficulty of the book. It is true you can be smart when you are young and I can easily believe you, Rosa, when you are saying you read some of the biggest international litterature when you were young. But Les Miserables and War and Peace, while very big, are fictional stories that are very entertaining. Furthermore, they are very close to us by their culture (Europe, 200 years or so). On the other hand, Plato's Republic is very arid, there is no dramatization and it is all about logic, arguments and philosophy all in an old greek culture.
So, sure it is possible Esmeralda read it but for these two reasons, I highly doubt it.
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That's an excellent observation. I took her reading the book as an example that perhaps he was underestimating his students. I thought back to when he was discussing what books to read and basically thinking they wouldn't get anything too difficult. The students were incredible brats however.
Johnson. Poop Johnson
Through the entire movie the faculty let their preconceived notions affect their judgment of the students. M. Marin doesn't believe they could handle the Enlightenment. The only student whose intelligence is respected is Asian. This is a story about how these judgments can taint the academic process. If a teacher has no faith in the ability of his students, what can we expect from the students? By looking at these children with low expectations, he is showing them no respect, yet he expects respect in return. The moment where Esmerelda reveals her intellectual curiosity is a very important one. Every student has potential, no matter their ethnicity. These teachers were judging them from the point of view of their own culture. At no point are they connecting with them.
Yes, I do believe Esmerelda read Plato's Republic. And if her teacher had not let his own racism impair his job performance, she might have been better prepared to experience it.
Man if you don't find it plausible that Esmeralda read the republic, you probably haven't understood the movie as well as you'd like to think jerome, because you'd be missing one of the more fundamental ideas in the movie. I suggest you watch the movie 4-5 more times and do a little more thinking before making another tedious comment. Jerome, you remind me of souleymane.
shareYour own comment is not very clever. Let me help you.
First, explain your point of view (i.e.: why you think it is sooo plausible that she read the book) instead of just attacking my personal intepretation with no arguments. You have opinion ? Fine, explain if it's so "fundamental".
Second, many people on the forum doubt the girl actually read that book (and they explain why). Not to say even it's professor really doubt that she did in the movie but he has to accept it because, while he questioned her, it is apparent that she can explain very well the book itself. Now, we (the viewers) know it's a movie. We know, that the girl just read the dialogue. We also know the director used Plato's Republic to impress the professor. But that does not change the fact it's not credible in my opinion.
Third, learn to accept people have a different opinion than yours and to respect it, if that word means anything for you.
Fourth, read my comment 4-5 times before replying it.
First, I didn't explain my point of view for a reason. I asked you to go watch it 4-5 more times in the hope that would be the amount of times necessary for you jerome to understand the movie. The 4-5 times is simply a joke but the idea behind it is that one must come to his interpretation through the union between himself and the movie, that is it must be done on a solely individual, personal level. It is not up to others to fill the holes of your reasoning, it is only up to you dear jerome. As a human, you do have potential.
Second, many people on the forum are very similar to you. They enjoy movies but only on a very superficial level; they fail to see the artistry behind cinema, thus reducing its conceptual and intangible nature to pragmatic understanding. Movies aren't so much about understanding as they are about feeling, that's why I feel you have really missed out when you weren't not able to sense that Esmeralda did in fact read the book. The director had intended to prepare you as a viewer for that specific moment, as is true for all other moments in the film.
Third and fourth, I sincerely apologize if I hurt your feelings little jerome, my comment seems to have stirred up your childish impulses. I forget how feeble and meager human existence has become. Constantly living in compromises of all sorts, in your answers, you'll always point out the subjective nature of reality, you hide yourself under its protective cover. "Everyone has a different opinion." True I say, but these opinions aren't all of the same value, some prove to be more meaningful than others. Cultivate the enterprise of your interior development jerome, for humanity's sake. As for respect, I don't believe that I failed in showing you the respect you deserve in my comment, I'm simply dealing with a naive teenager who has just blindly learned notions such as equality and justice and wishes to blindly apply them in convenient situations. I suggest you don't post any more comments until you are able to step outside the frame of institutional thinking, I hope you're not enjoying being a slave under its rule.
Also, I read your comment 3 more times but it was too depressing, so unfortunately I wasn't able to make it to 4. And by the way, I like the 1 blah blah 2 blah blah 3 blah system, tried to make the most of it.
Wow, wokaemporter, you are terrible.
You didn't explain your point of view because you have none. It's not the 4-5 times that is a joke but your posts. I don't know if you are a human, but you clearly have no potential.
So you know the truth and everybody else is wrong ? Ok, if you pretend that, then you should explain it. But the fact is you just don't know what you're talking about. You have no arguments. You think saying to people "you're wrong, I'm right" makes you're right ? Impressive. I'm wondering who is the child between us. Oh, just to let you know I'm 28 and have a film degree and my specialty is to analyze movies. The difference between you and me is I'm not using that fact when I'm arguing on this forum with ordinary people just to pretend I'm superior to them. But obviously it's useful to say it to a "superior person" like you. Who the hell you believe you are ? André Bazin or Alfred Hitcock ? Your opinion is clearly worthless and you have no credibility.
You think you dont lack respect to people? Well, let me tell you that your condescending attitude in both of your posts is a very high lack of respect. Nobody would accept such a tone, and you would'nt dare to use it if you were in front of me. But, hey, it's so easy to act like a jerk in anonymity behind your computer. Hey, I didn't say you were a jerk. Just your attitude he ? Like in the movie when Begaudeau says to his students they were acting like *beep* I'm explaining that to you because I doubt you actually saw that movie in view of your poor and insulting argumentation.
Edit : I just read your others comments and you, sir, are clearly a troll, insulting people on your others posts and acting if you were god of cinema. Same condescending tone and elusive argumentation (I liked the " I would like to explain to you but I have work to do" yeah right you have no dam idea what you are talking about that's the fact). So you can continue to act like an ignorant and haughty person, I'll let you speak alone and stop losing my time with you.
No, I think she just wikipedia it and thought it would be funny to make up some answer in class that would impress the teacher! It worked! ROFL!
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Unrelated to Plato...
When the teacher said Esmeralda was acting like a "skank," he was only half-right. She IS a skank. Holy Moly, that might just be the ugliest women I've ever seen in my life - with a personality to match!
One of the good things about France is the attitude towards culture and intellectualism, it is seen as healthy, not elitist as it is in some other countries.
When I taught English in a French primary school I was amazed to see that the walls were adorned, not with Disney characters but quotes from famous philosophers such as Descartes.
French children grow up with this stuff being fed to them, therefore it isn't surprising to think someone would have read that particular book, no matter what their background.
I've been living in France for many years and I've been teaching to French students. I don't know what kind of school you taught at but my students (at the faculty) are absolutely clueless. They don't even know how to spell.
shareI think it's possible she read part of it, but mostly as a rebellion against being called what in her mind amounted to a prostitute. She was certainly reactionary- think about her reason for wanting to be a cop- purely a reflex against people saying that all cops are bad! It was well within her character to try to prove the guy wrong.
The only way I see it happening is like this: she has an older sister, who is more studious than she is. She probably thought her sister was putting on airs or something, but the moment she felt that she was being perceived as a low-life, she probably went into her sister's bedroom and tried to figure out how to make a literature Professer change his mind. The most obvious choice would be to read the most cultured book she could find, or at least try to.
I can well imagine her having a conversation with her sister about what book is the most difficult to read on her bookshelf, and trying to make sense of it.
Esmeralda might not be the brightest kid, but she wasn't stupid, either, and she was extremely motivated at this point.
Spot on Lola - I agree with you here 100%
shareReading and understanding what you read are quite different.
share"Reading and understanding what you read are quite different. "
I totally agree. I doubt that Esmeralda's grasp of The Republic was that strong considering she couldn't remember Socrates' name.
The fact that she didn't remember his name off the top of her head just went to show that she wasn't familiar with his philosophy beforehand. She wasn't aware that she was reading somewhat challenging material -- it was just a book to her that she had probably never heard of, and she enjoyed it. She didn't read it to impress anyone... she didn't know it was impressive of her. Regardless of how deep or shallow her overall grasp was of The Republic's complexities, I think the important thing is that she identified with Socrates. It's the punchline of the whole film.
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