MovieChat Forums > Oliver Twist (2007) Discussion > Bill Sikes (Spoiler if you havent seen t...

Bill Sikes (Spoiler if you havent seen the last episode)


When Bill ran away with Oliver, after killing Nancy, did he really see her ghost, or was it just his conscience getting to him?

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conscience i presume

"When I light a candle at midnight I say to the darkness I beg to differ"-Sr. Helen Prejean

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I dont know if anyone agrees but, the way this version deals with Bill Sykes death bothered me a little.

By having Bill kill himself, makes him less threatening, although yes it does make him more human as one can understand how and why he kills himself; as he cant live with the fact that he killed the woman that loved him.

However, this makes him less convincing as the ultimate bad guy I quote "There's no one worse than me!"

Does anyone else agree?
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This is not normal!

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Acually I agree, this version gave Bill too much of a soul.

"When I light a candle at midnight I say to the darkness I beg to differ"-Sr. Helen Prejean

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[deleted]

Ah I remember this post - I watched this great show last year - but its being repeated I think on Watch or something

I own the Jelena Jankovic board

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[deleted]

Maybe Sykes did have a conscience over killing Nancy.
I think this Sykes is a lot differant to any other. For starters he is much younger than normally portrayed and slimmer. And sexier. Every other Sykes has been menacing but older and bigger. And usually a lot older than Nancy whereas this Sykes was prob the same age as Niancy.
I adore Tom Hardy so think this version is the best.

2009: Year of The Hardy!

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Oliver Reed, who played Sikes in "Oliver!", was thirty or thirty-one. The actress who played Nancy was four years older. In this version Nancy(SophieO)is about eight years older than Sikes(TomH).

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I believe it's up to the audience to interpret what is going on. I can't remember how it was in the book because I read it some years ago, but I believe in this adaptation it was used as a way of showing Bill becoming even more crazy than we previously see. In showing him seeing Nancy the audience sees that he does have a conscience of some sort and that he does feel guilty about his actions. Bottom line he did love her. So maybe showing her "ghost" or his mind playing tricks on him is to portray him not as completely thoughtless, but to show the brutality that he was capable of. This, on top of the crowds chasing him (which may have been evident or not in this adaptation), is what leads to his inevitable suicide.

"Spastics can have fun too."

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There's nothing inevitable about Sikes' suicide, as he actually died quite by accident in attempting to escape the crowds in the book.

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That is what I remembered too. I think that it is a problem with movie makers of our time that someone (a writer, a producer, a director) wants to explain away the badness of the bad characters. They add to, or take away from the original book to let the audience feel at least a little compassion for that person. I find it quite the interesting dichotomy. We watch these shows. Many people feel that the person in the story is understandable now, and they feel better. In real life, however, there is very little sympathy for a murderer, a rapist, or anyone that has behaved in the same way as the villains in the drama. Reminds me of the difference between an original fairy tale and the one told by Walt Disney. Clean them up, make it all fine in the end, go home happy.

In the book, Bill Sykes not only kills Nancy in the end, but he beat and abused her all the time before that. Tom Hardy got a script handed to him that took all those things out. He may be a wonderful actor, but he wasn't the one that cleaned up the character in order to make people feel somewhat sorry for him.

It was the same thing in his version of "Wuthering Heights". His Heathcliff got quite cleaned up. In the book, Heathcliff becomes so vengeful and mean that, yes, many have called him evil. That goes all the way back to when it was first published. There was an outcry that a book's protagonist would be so vile. The Fiennes/Binoche version did show only what Heathcliff had done in the book. They added nothing to his behavior. When he runs off with Isabella he hangs her little dog at the back of the house. He beats Isabella. Tells her she repulses him. How many of you would sympathize with a husband who treated his wife that way these days???

In the second half of the book, he is cruel to his own son Linton. To Catherine he locks her in the house at the Heights until she will marry Linton so that he (Heathcliff) will get the Grange land. He is absolutely bent on getting revenge on the Lintons because Cathy married Edgar. He blames them for his separation from Cathy and ultimately her death. He takes out his revenge on Hindley by keeping his son Hareton a "brute" (to quote the book). He won't let him be schooled and taught to read and write and do numbers. Uses him only to work the land and animals of the Heights. Would anyone have felt much sympathy for Heathcliff in a teleplay that kept all those things in it? Would very many people out there feel pity and sympathy for someone in real life, here and now, whose bad deed had ONLY been the hanging of the dog, never mind the rest?!?

So, Ralph Fiennes had a script that included all those things. And I think that he still managed to show us his wounded soul. Did we sympathize? Maybe not. But he did make us feel his pain. Just as the book does. Did we come to understand that a lack of love and affection makes for an emotional cripple? I think so.

BUT . . . Will we learn to feel sorry for real people like the rapper (DMX?) in Phoenix, AZ who kept dogs for illegal dog fights, and then starved some, and strangled others that he wanted dead. NO!!! Is the man evil? You answer that!

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Perhaps he loved her as much as he was capable of loving, which wasn't much. However, he seemed to need her on several levels. Basically he seemed like a psychopath, but he may have also been suffering from delerium tremens(?) as he seemed to be an alcoholic.

Semper Contendere Propter Amoram et Formam

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probably his conscience. Bill was so evil but in the end I felt sorry for him. Bravo Tom Hardy!

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His conscience I think also. He asks Oliver to sing a song and I think that is his way of trying to get Nancy out of his mind.
This adaptation is very different from the book in many ways in particular concerning Bill Sykes and one of them that stands out for me is how sykes abuses his own dog whereas Tom's portrayal there is no evidence even offscreen that he does. Which was something I liked about the character.

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