MovieChat Forums > The Universe (2007) Discussion > Listing the Things Neccessary for Human ...

Listing the Things Neccessary for Human Life As We Know It on A Planet


Again, this is about human life as we know it. For me, it's too much speculation to think of other kinds of life.

So far, from this show, it's my understanding that in order for a planet to have human life as we know it, the following things must be true:

It must be in the Goldilocks zone of the galaxy.
It must be in the Goldilocks zone of the solar system.
It must orbit a long-living sun.
It must have a Jupiter-like planet protecting it.
It must have plate tectonics.
It must have a certain-sized moon to stabilize it.
It must have a magnetic core/field.
It must have been cool enough when astroids brought water.


Does anyone have anything else to add to the list?


Saulisa

Logic is our best defense against The Experts.

reply

If it also had Dinosaurs then the tiny mammals that evolve into being human beings would also need to have the planet hit by an asteroid to wipe out these larger LIFE FORMS so that the mammals could then proceed to become what we've become.

The STAR would also need to be a MIDDLE AGED Star like ours if the planet is also located in the GOLDILOCKS Zone, because in a couple of Billion years our STAR will also begin to grow into it's RED GIANT phase which means the temperature will rise and begin to boil away our oceans.

So the AGE of the STAR would also be an issue.

And this other planet in the Goldilocks zone would also need to be HIT just right ... and in the SAME PLACE as another PROTO PLANET hit us ... in order to form another moon like our moon.

And it would also need another GAS GIANT with GRAVITY like JUPITER ... our COSMIC HOOVER ... that SUCKS up most of the comets and other asteroids before they can make it into the center part of our Solar System and hit us.

Seems like there's just too many VARIABLES INVOLVED with the process needed for life forms like ours to exist on a planet.

And even IF a planet would have EXACTLY the same set of situations, there would also be the TIME FACTOR, which means our life form may also NOT EXIST at the same time as it would on another planet LIKE OURS in another SOLAR SYSTEM like ours, with a STAR the same size and age as ours, etc.

And the search for another EARTH like planet is also showing us how the arrangement of our planet in our SOLAR SYSTEM is also definitely NOT THE NORM.

Most STARS are also RED DWARFS and not STARS like our STAR.

Something like 70% of them are RED DWARFS.

So that also narrows things down a bit when it comes to finding a duplicate solar system and planet like ours.









reply

Thanks for the additions! Yeah, the more I watch this show, the more amazed I am at how many things are needed.

But I already said the moon and Jupiter!

About being hit by a proto planet, I'm not sure that's necessary. The planet would need a moon, but I'm not sure it would matter how that moon came into being. OTOH, the collision kills two birds with one stone -- the moon and plate tectonics. However, I'm guessing that both of those could possibly come about by different means.

When I started compiling a list in my head after so many of these things came up on the show, I couldn't help but think, "And that's just the stuff we know at this time. What if it turns out that every single planet in this solar system is necessary for life on Earth?"

The universe really is an awesome (as in awe inspiring) place.


Saulisa

Logic is our best defense against The Experts.

reply

About being hit by a proto planet, I'm not sure that's necessary. The planet would need a moon, but I'm not sure it would matter how that moon came into being. OTOH, the collision kills two birds with one stone -- the moon and plate tectonics. However, I'm guessing that both of those could possibly come about by different means.


I think it IS NECESSARY ...

because when the PROTO PLANET HIT US we MERGED with it ...

so OUR CORE got COMBINED with it's CORE ...

which is the reason why we have a BIGGER CORE now ...

which also enables us to have our MAGNETIC FIELD ...

which also protects us from COSMIC RAYS and from RADIATION from the SUN ...

and our BIGGER CORE is probably also the reason why we still have an active PLATE TECHTONIC SYSTEM ...

which a planet like MARS ... which had a smaller CORE ... doesn't have.





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_impact_hypothesis

Basic model of impact[edit source]

Astronomers think the collision between Earth and Theia happened at approximately 4.53 bya; about 30–50 million years after the Solar System began to form. In astronomical terms, the impact would have been of moderate velocity. Theia is thought to have struck the Earth at an oblique angle when the latter was nearly fully formed. Computer simulations of this "late-impact" scenario suggest an impact angle of about 45° and an initial impactor velocity below 4 km/s.[11] Theia's iron core would have sunk into the young Earth's core, and most of Theia's mantle accreted onto the Earth's mantle, however, a significant portion of the mantle material from both Theia and the Earth would have been ejected into orbit around the Earth. This material quickly coalesced into the Moon (possibly within less than a month, but in no more than a century). Estimates based on computer simulations of such an event suggest that some twenty percent of the original mass of Theia would have ended up as an orbiting ring of debris, and about half of this matter coalesced into the Moon.

The Earth would have gained significant amounts of angular momentum and mass from such a collision. Regardless of the speed and tilt of the Earth's rotation before the impact, it would have experienced a day some five hours long after the impact, and the Earth's equator and the Moon's orbit would have become coplanar in the aftermath of the giant impact.[12]

Not all of the ring material would have necessarily been swept up right away; the thickened crust of the Far Side suggests that a second moon about 1,000-km in diameter formed in a Lagrange point of the Moon; after tens of millions of years, as the two moons migrated outward from the Earth, solar tidal effects would have made the Lagrange orbit unstable, resulting in a slow-velocity collision that would have 'pancaked' the smaller moon onto what is now the Far Side.[13][14]



And here's a reason why even if we found another EARTH like planet that has been through what our planet has ... human life on it may still already be EXTINCT there:


http://www.solstation.com/stars/earth.htm

According to the geological record, Earth's magnetic field dwindles down to nothing for about a hundred years every few hundred thousand years. Then, it gradually reappears but with the north and south poles flipped. The last reversal of the poles occurred about 780,000 years ago, and the strength of the magnetic field has diminished by about five percent over the past century. Hence, the Earth may be overdue for this cyclical event. Given the anticipated loss of the magnetic field's shielding against the Sun's energetic subatiomic radiation and more ultraviolet radiation from the consequent erosion of the ozone layer, however, a magnetic reversal may cause serious ecological disruption to all surface lifeforms on Earth as well as threaten human well-being.


reply

Wow. Interesting stuff!

The whole thing is just amazing to me. And like I said before, we only know a certain amount right now -- there may be a whole bunch more things which would be necessary (though I suppose, it's also possible that it could turn out that we actually wouldn't need everything listed in this thread, as long as we had *blank* -- blank being something we have no clue about right now).


Saulisa

Logic is our best defense against The Experts.

reply


Another program is on the SCIENCE CHANNEL now (A WORMHOLE MARATHON just ended) and what's interesting is they said there's MORE LIFE UNDER our planet than on top of it.

They also said there's MORE WATER under the Surface than in our oceans, and there's also some kind of STORM raging that is more fierce than our worst hurricane???

So even without taking other planets in our SOLAR SYSTEM (or their MOONS like TITAN and EUROPA) into consideration, there's also still lots of OTHER WEIRD STUFF going on right here under our FEET???


reply

Dang! I wish I'd seen this post in time!

I had heard about the water before (more below than in the oceans), but I'd never heard about the storm. I'll check out the rest of the week on the channel because a lot of times, they replay programs during the week.


Saulisa

Logic is our best defense against The Experts.

reply

Checked the SCIENCE CHANNEL SCHEDULE but doesn't look like it will be back again anytime soon. They've also aired it other times this month.

What's weird is when you search for this program you also get directed to another different one narrated by PATRICK STEWART (Capt. Picard from Star Trek Next Generation).

But that INSIDE the EARTH isn't the one they aired yesterday.



The one yesterday kept showing the INSIDE of the CORE and explains all of the things that were explained to you about how it's bigger now since the collision where our CORE MERGED with the other CORE of the PROTO PLANET that hit us.

It also explains PLATE TECHTONICS and the MAGNETIC FIELD and how that keeps us safe and why MARS no longer has one anymore etc.

Lots of cool illustrations ... like how LAVA oozes up into MUSHROOM FORMATIONS sorta like inside of a LAVA LAMP.

Anyhow, whenever it airs again will also post a message here again so you can try to catch it the NEXT TIME.

It also discussed how we use to have 60% MORE OXYGEN than we have now (which is why DINOSAURS and TREES and other life was so HUGE.

The ENORMOUS FOREST is also the FOSSILIZED STUFF we use for FUEL now.

They said TREES would grow to 70 FEET or more and then FALL OVER because they got so big.

If the DINOSAURS hadn't munched out on mammals, wonder if humans could have evolved and also been as big???

Or wonder if there's an EARTH LIKE PLANET out there somewhere with GIANT HUMANS on it???



Here's a couple of other TREATS for you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akek6cFRZfY


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZGINaRUEkU


from the SYMPHONY of SCIENCE collection.

reply

Thanks! I would really appreciate a heads up if you see that it's airing again. It sounds very interesting. I'm gonna check out your new links, too.

As for Patrick Stewart, no need to tell me, lol. I'm a bit of a Trekkie.


Saulisa

Logic is our best defense against The Experts.

reply

Another TREK fan here.

What other Sci Fi shows did you watch or like???

Have you seen FARSCAPE/FIREFLY/BSG/ CAPRICA etc .... ???

BLADE RUNNER/FORBIDDEN PLANET etc ???

When I heard the voice of CAPT. PICARD I knew something wasn't right and that he hadn't narrated the show yesterday.

And it's also VERY ODD that google takes you to FREE COPIES of that show when you type in the name of this other show.



Oh well. At least one did one's best to try and find an online copy of it for you.

They also say the MAGNETIC FIELD has also already began to FLIP, because we've got an area off the EAST COAST of South America where this has already begain to happen.

So what happens to Humanity when the PLANET has no MAGNETIC FIELD to PROTECT us from RADIATION from the SUN for 100 YEARS during the TRANSITION???




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geomagnetic_reversal

Effects on biosphere and human society[edit source]


Not long after the first geomagnetic polarity time scales were produced, scientists began exploring the possibility that reversals could be linked to extinctions. Most such proposals rest on the assumption that the Earth's magnetic field would be much weaker during reversals.

Possibly the first such hypothesis was that high energy particles trapped in the Van Allen radiation belt could be liberated and bombard the Earth.[36][37]

Detailed calculations confirm that, if the Earth's dipole field disappeared entirely (leaving the quadrupole and higher components), most of the atmosphere would become accessible to high energy particles, but would act as a barrier to them, and cosmic ray collisions would produce secondary radiation of beryllium-10 or chlorine-36.

An increase of beryllium 10 was noted in a 2012 German study showing a peak of beryllium-10 in Greenland ice cores during a brief complete reversal 41,000 years ago which led to the magnetic field strength dropping to an estimated 5% of normal during the reversal.[1] There is evidence that this occurs both during secular variation[38][39] and during reversals.[40][41]


Another hypothesis by McCormac and Evans assumes that the Earth's field would disappear entirely during reversals.[42] They argue that the atmosphere of Mars may have been eroded away by the solar wind because it had no magnetic field to protect it.



reply

Another TREK fan here.


Cool! Do you post on those boards? I post on Trekkers Only and ST:ENT, but they're pretty dead.

Which Treks are your fave? I'm in the tiny, tiny minority that loves ENT best. I also love TNG and TOS, and I enjoy the reboot movies.

What other Sci Fi shows did you watch or like???


Right now, I'm re-obsessed with Stargate:Atlantis, lol. I also like SGU, short as it was. BSG is fantastic, too.

Have you seen FARSCAPE/FIREFLY/BSG/ CAPRICA etc .... ???


I enjoyed Farscape, but for some reason, stopped watching before I finished it. Saw all of Firefly, enjoyed it but don't get the Browncoat Fever, lol. I gave Caprica a half-dozen tries, but it was just too weird for me.

BLADE RUNNER/FORBIDDEN PLANET etc ???


Love Blade Runner (it's on my DVD right now). I've never seen Forbidden Planet.

I Robot, The Fifth Element, and 12 Monkeys are shows that I watch every time they air.


Saulisa

Logic is our best defense against The Experts.

reply


No never posted to the TREK BOARDS HERE.

Like the case with you liking Enterprise best ...

My favorite was VOYAGER ...

esp the last eppy where Janeway goes BACK in TIME to defeat the BORG QUEEN.

Also LOVED her relationship with 7 of 9 and the way she becomes like a MOTHER to her.

My fav ST:NG eppys were the one where BEVERLY meets and falls in love with the creature with the HOST body that dies ... and then gets temporarily placed into RIKER'S BODY ... before the other HOST body that shows up turns out to be a FEMALE (at which point she ends the relationship).

The other one I liked was when Deanna is impregnated by the ALIEN CREATURE who becomes an 8 yr old boy in a couple of days??? Because it wanted to know what it was like to be human???

Also liked the one where DATA creates a daughter.

My fav eppy of FIREFLY is OBJECTS IN SPACE.

Forbidden PLANET is a place where they discover a machine that can EXPONENTIALLY INCREASE YOUR INTELLIGENCE, but the problem is when one does this one also increases the ID or the PRIMITIVE PART of your personality as well.

Check it out sometime if you haven't seen it.






reply

I've never seen the VOY finale, but, yes, you are definitely in the minority from what I've read! I should check it out on Netflix.

I know all three of those TNG episodes. The one with Beverly could be discussed at length!

I really should watch Forbidden Planet. I've heard of it often.


Saulisa

Logic is our best defense against The Experts.

reply


Here's another TREAT for you:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fhjJVx1hPo


where you can see the 25 YEAR OLDER VERSION of CAPT. JANEWAY ...

who is now an ADMIRAL ...

go BACK in TIME ...

where she MEETS the YOUNGER VERSION of herself ...

so she can teach her how to use MODERN DAY TECHNOLOGY to PROTECT the ship ...

which prevents the BORG CUBES from being able to destroy it ...

which also enables it to get through the WORMHOLE the BORG is guarding ...

so it can finally GET BACK HOME again.

Meanwhile ADMIRAL JANEWAY who has also INFECTED HERSELF with a DEADLY VIRUS ...

also lets the BORG QUEEN start to ASSIMILATE HER ...

which then INFECTS the BORG QUEEN ...

who pulls off her ARM ...

in hopes she can stop it from spreading ...

but it's TOO LATE and her LEG also falls off ...

and since she's also CONNECTED to the REST of the BORG HIVE like beings ...

they're also INFECTED with the SAME VIRUS ...

and so they ALL FALL DOWN and get DESTROYED as well.

So it was also PRETTY COOL how THE FEMALE CAPTAIN/ADMIRAL is able to do what CAPTAIN PICARD wasn't able to do.

And one also suspects maybe the reason why the MALE TREKKIES didn't like VOYAGER as much might be for this reason???



Anyhow, it's also pretty cool to watch the way the OLDER VERSION of JANEWAY meets the YOUNGER VERSION of herself ...

and to watch the YOUNGER VERSION of the SHIP MORPH into the NEWER VERSION of one that now has that UPGRADED PROTECTIVE SHIELD all around it that the BORG can't PENETRATE..


reply

Okay, okay, I'll watch!


Saulisa

Logic is our best defense against The Experts.

reply

Check your PM BOX.

Here's a couple of other shows that will AIR EARLY TOMORROW morning and both times are CENTRAL TIME:



If We Had No Moon

(First Aired: Dec. 06, 1999)
Earth's moon was created 50 million years ago, and without it hurricane-force winds would pummel the planet surface during four-hour days.
7:00 - 8:00 AM Science




Journey to the Earth's Core
(First Aired: Mar. 23, 2011)
Mysterious underground forces -- stretching to some 4,000 miles to the heart of Earth -- impact the existence of those on the surface.
10:00 - 12:00 PM History



There are 2 SHOWS that describe what life would be like with NO MOON. I think One of them is called IF THE MOON WAS GONE ??? And Capt. Picard also NARRATES one of them, but not sure which one he narrates???

Anyhow, both are interesting, and one is also a bit better than the other one.


The 2ND program is also suppose to be a BRAND NEW one (or being shown for the first time on this channel), so have no idea what this one is like or if it is any good or not.

It's also on the REGULAR HISTORY channel and not on the HISTORY 2 channel.



reply

I already had taped If We Had No Moon, lol. I think I've seen it before, but I like to re-watch that stuff.


Saulisa

Logic is our best defense against The Experts.

reply

Well the part where they talk about the TILT of the EARTH at 23 degrees ...

and how we wouldn't have that TILT without the MOON ...

and how we'd TILT all over the place if we had NO MOON ...

which would also mean we'd constantly have MAJOR RADICAL SWINGS and CHANGES in our WEATHER patterns ...

and have MAJOR TIDAL WAVES ...

and MAJOR HURRICANES, etc.

it also becomes that much MORE CLEAR how LUCKY we are to have our MOON.

And it also becomes that much more CLEAR how LESS LIKELY it is that another EARTH like planet would end up having one LIKE OURS.

Because they also point out how our MOON is much larger than other MOONS in comparison to the size of other planets.

Something like our MOON is 1/4TH the size of Earth???

Which is also RARE and not something one finds very often???

So each time we LEARN new details and we go still deeper into them ...

then one also comes to the conclusion that it isn't VERY LIKELY we're going to find another planet like EARTH ...

or another SOLAR SYSTEM like ours where we find another EARTH like PLANET with a MOON the same size that orbits it like the case is with our planet???




Still another interesting issue is the way HUGE GAS GIANT planets like JUPITER can also SURF their way from sitting on the OUTSIDE of a SOLAR SYSTEM to SITTING on the INSIDE of it.

So imagine what happens to EARTH if that happens.

THE COSMIC HOVER that protects us from other COMETS hitting us would also SUCK US UP if and whenever it SURFS its way into the MIDDLE of our SOLAR SYSTEM.

So how many other EARTH like PLANETS have also had that happen to them???

Then there's also the issue of ANDROMEDA ...

the other GALAXY that's heading towards us ...

and will GOBBLE US up when we MERGE with it ...

at which time the BLACK HOLE at it's CENTER could EAT US ...

or we could also get EJECTED out into SPACE ...

where we'd become one of the MANY ROGUE PLANETS who no longer exist inside of a SOLAR SYSTEM anymore.

So there's a couple of more reasons why finding another planet like ours seems that much more UNLIKELY???

So many VARIABLES to deal with in order to become what we are now ...

or what we will yet become at sometime in the future???




reply

I know, all that stuff is so cool to learn.


Saulisa

Logic is our best defense against The Experts.

reply


I'm betting EARTH is also a UNIQUE situation ...

and that we're also BLOWING it BIGTIME ...

by not properly taking care of this place.




reply

Here's a couple more for your list:

FREE OXYGEN: The planet should definitely have some sort of process (e.g., stromatolites or other primitive life) that can produce atmospheric oxygen from the various oxides on the surface and/or in the oceans, since oxygen, when left to its own devices, likes to combine with things (e.g., rusting any exposed iron). This isn't just for breathing; even with a magnetic field, a planet still needs an ozone layer or something like it to keep the sun's UV radiation from frying whatever is wandering around on dry land.

IT MUST ORBIT A RELATIVELY MASSIVE SUN. If the sun is too small, e.g., a red dwarf, it will definitely live for a long, long, long time, but it will be so cool in temperature that the planet would have to be so close to the sun that it would be tidally locked, like our moon is to Earth, so one side is perpetually hot and the other side is in eternal frozen night.

reply

Cool! Thanks for the additions!


Saulisa

Logic is our best defense against The Experts.

reply

Oh, and I believe that the planet has to be a certain size so that the gravity doesn't mess with the liquid water. I'm not exactly sure about this one, but it was referred to on How To Build A Planet.


Saulisa

Logic is our best defense against The Experts.

reply

- Weather/water cycle
- an appreciable atmosphere with a significant greenhouse gas effect (but not one that is too strong, or the planet may become hellish like Venus)
- An elliptical orbit(but not so elliptical that it takes the planet too far away from, or too close to, its star)
- metallicity/metal content in the star (with out it, the likelihood of terrestrial planets developing decreases)
- A gas giant must be located further out, instead of in the inner solar system (we don't want a gas giant hogging up the habitable zone)

Cram it with walnuts, ugly!

reply

A very interesting topic, this! It seems to me that many don't fully appreciate what an amazing coincidence it is that we exist at all, even on a planet seemingly perfect for life, like our own Earth.

It might just be that life in its simplest form comes into existence quite easily, but how probable is multicellular life at all, let alone life forms with vertebrae, let alone mammals, LET ALONE humanoids? After all, even this planet went through almost four billion years of dullness before the Cambric explosion were to happen.

About the pretty unlikely chain of events that led to us, I highly recommend this: http://www.amazon.com/Rare-Earth-Complex-Uncommon-Universe/dp/0387952896

You might not agree with the writers' hypothesis, but nonetheless it's a fascinating and highly enlightening read.


Don't breathe air. Birds *beep* in it!

reply

Clicky:

http://www.amazon.com/Rare-Earth-Complex-Uncommon-Universe/dp/03879528 96

Looks interesting. In fact, as I was reading the blurbs, I got the feeling that I saw this book briefly referenced on a science show -- possibly this one!


Saulisa

Logic is our best defense against The Experts.

reply