A question to black-Americans - Miracle at St. Anna (2008) Discussion

[–] Charlie_Strom 14 years ago

No. No black americans would care to enlighten someone who's country ENSLAVED the Planet.

It would be pathetic to even begin to give an insight to someone so obviously subjective in their initial analysis of people they obviously dont know or relate to.

Go make your "ethnic studies" in your own condescending, self-righteous morality laced country.

"“Beware the beast, man, for he is the Devil's pawn. Alone among God's primates, he kills for sport or lust or greed. Yea, he will murder his brother, to possess his brother's land."
-Beneath the Planet of the Apes

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[–] samsan_lee 14 years ago

put an Irish & Italian American in the same room & they would kill each other on principle but the one thing the different groups of Americans have in common is they all hate the blacks

An utterly ignorant statement. But, as an African-American, I'll try to descalate another irritating and somewhat not well thought out thread.

Basically, the area of time is the late 30s. In the WW2 ideology the American audience became aware that War was ravaging Europe. As the war came, there were new ideologies, and the "plantation" genre of film (Gone with the Wind, 1937-39) had to decline. The rise of fascism and "Master Race" ideology made America's entry inevitable. So, the U.S. Govt had to motivate 1 million blacks it had drafted to fight and face its ubiquitous racist ideology at home. Beleive it or not, at that time Waler White challenged Hollywood to clean up its racist screen image of blacks in the U.S. NAACP (which was white run) began to reduce the ideological inscritption of slavery and the plantation myths for themes to turn a profit. Note, in the film, the picture of Joe Louis (who was an enlistment ad for blacks at the time). I believe the "patriotic fervor" shown in the soldiers of the film, matched the reality of "becoming relevant in civil society".

Blacks are neither hated or loved, we simply live on in the society and fight only because of the economic situations we find ourselves in. Operations in Iraq and Afghanistan are populated with minorities of several persuasions no doubt. Several of us have gone on to have illustrious careers in the military (Colin Powell to name one, and there are several others).

Lets keep it civil and keep the "analysis" to a minimum. Next visit to America, speak to someone and keep it real. (you brits know how to do that, right? Youre not all Guy Ritchie Cockney gangstas, right?).

"Injustice anywhere is threat to justice everywhere"
-Martin Luther King

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[–] bud380 10 years ago

"we simply live on in the society and fight only because of the economic situations we FIND OURSELVES IN"

That's an awfully delicate way of saying "LIVING UNDER THE PROBLEMS WE CAUSED OURSELVES".

Asians, Native American's, Russians, Jews, and Muslims all manage to live in the US without any problems (save for the muslims up until recently, as you can guess why), why is it that Blacks are the only ones who seem to have "economic problems", or "social problems", or "family issues"? It's because you have to clean your damn act up. Quit sleeping around with dozens of other women and fathering huge loads of kids you can't take care of, you need to quit trafficking drugs thinking it's your only way of living in this world and get a damn job, you need to quit dressing like homeless idiots so that you CAN get a damn job, and you need to start graduating so you have MERITS for a job.

The reason there aren't that many blacks in the higher tiers of business and politics isn't because the system is unjustly racist, it's because your whole group is full of a bunch of idiots who sit back and expect to be sympathized with and given free handouts based on issues that don't effect them anymore, and haven't effected any of them for at least 150 years.

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[–] activista 9 years ago

@bud

People here (including black people) just explained the reason and history behind why black people haves so many problems (due to damn near 500 years of being held back by white racism) and you come up in here with this same old tired-a** racist bull****? Just STFU, because black people don't need racist a**holes like you to tell us what our problems are. And then, when black people do the right things, you damn sure won't give them credit for it anyway. And where the fck are we supposedly getting these "free handouts" from? You racist spout that stupid s*** all the time online, yet you can never provide any real proof or anything to back up your bull**** claims. Just GTFOOH with that tired-a** *beep* already. Black folks have already been dealing with these problems ourselves for decades----nobody needs a stupid racist who could give less than a fck about black people and just wants to make him/herself feel superior by talking s*** about us. You racists love repeating that same tired-a** bull**** everywhere. Just STFU already.

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[–] dlamontjenkins 14 years ago

Seriously, you actually have me hoping that you are racist, because to know that someone is out there this ignorant that isn't would scare the hell out of me.

And I am a Black American who served in the Air Force. And if I tried to write any more than that, I would just get too pissed off.

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[–] southwestern71 14 years ago

On May 5 2010 Charlie Strom said: No. No black americans would care to enlighten someone who's country ENSLAVED the Planet.

Reply: America has appointed itself the policeman of the world so you can bet your bottom dollar the yanks are covertly doing things in Iraq and Afghanistan Nazi Germany & Britain at the height of its imperial reign would never have dreamt of doing so don’t point a self-righteous patronising finger at someone else & no we are not all Guy Ritchie Cockney gangstas.

Also on Wed May 5 2010 samsan lee wrote: The rise of fascism and "Master Race" ideology made America's entry inevitable.

Reply: America was an isolationist country at the time & didn’t enter WWII on some goody two shoes crusade. America entered WWII because it looked like Japan & Germany would actually win leaving the US sandwiched in-between two powerful industrialised fascist power blocks which would eventually directly affect the US. The yanks were definitely not fighting against a "Master Race" ideology as the U.S. Armed Forces was racially segregated at the time of WWII. They didn’t want blacks in the services at all but weren’t sure if they could win a war on two major fronts without 10% of their population. Most black serviceman at the time were either mess boys or cannon fodder. An elderly black-American once told me he got better treatment in a German P.O.W. camp then he did in the racially segregated U.S. Army of WWII & at one point began to wonder who the enemy is & for your info generally speaking black-American servicemen in war-time Britain were treated very well.

Lastly on May 9 2010 dlamontjenkins wrote: Seriously, you actually have me hoping that you are racist, because to know that someone is out there this ignorant that isn't would scare the hell out of me.

And I am a Black American who served in the Air Force. And if I tried to write any more than that, I would just get too pissed off.

Reply: dlamontjenkins you made me laugh so hard I nearly wet myself. By definition a racist is someone who thinks he is superior because of his race, I don’t fall into that category but there are a few groups I’m not keen on for various reasons. In WWII Jews who did not look Jewish served in the German Armed Forces to save their necks but no Jew enlisted for patriotic reasons yet blacks of their own accord serve in the U.S. Armed Forces such as you. I’m right-wing but I can assure you if I lived in a country where I was a member of a hated group I would not serve in the armed forces of that country.

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[–] Cinemaniac00 14 years ago

Actually, according to the OED (the dictionary produced by and highly regarded in the UK) racism is either:

1. The belief that there are characteristics, abilities, or qualities specific to each race.

-or-

2. Discrimination against or antagonism towards other races.

In your most recent reply and your original message you exhibited qualities true of both definitions, including blatant antagonism: "the one thing the different groups of Americans have in common is they all hate the blacks", "black-Americans have no self-respect whatsoever". Both of those statements are clearly antagonistic. In addition, you CLEARLY believe you can assign a set of behavioral and ideological characteristics to ethnic or racial groups: "In all fairness" (this is fair?) "all Americans of different ethnic groups despise each other, put an Irish & Italian American in the same room & they would kill each other" You also said "blacks in the States (are) ultra-patriotic & always willing to fight for a country where they are despised."

It would seem you are most certainly a racist, fitting the definition from your country's dictionary to the letter. You also seem to be brilliant at collecting (and inventing) stereotypes, so you may disseminate them as facts, when they are actually opinions that I am sad to find you possess.

You also negated yourself when you tried to prove that America is filled and run by racists by saying "An elderly black-American once told me he got better treatment in a German P.O.W. camp then he did in the racially segregated U.S. Army of WWII & at one point began to wonder who the enemy is". This would appear to cancel out your assertion that "blacks in the States (are) ultra-patriotic".

Doc Holliday: Why Johnny Ringo... You look like somebody just walked over your grave.

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[–] Riotboy-1 14 years ago

fthe one thing the different groups of Americans have in common is they all hate the blacks.

They ALL hate blacks really, slick. I don't so you're wrong right there. You sound so ignorant and stupid about what goes on in America. If you really want to know the real United States try not to visit tourist stops and sightseeing trips and stop watching films and t.v. to get your opinions on American cultures.

Look at the night sky, where does it end?
http://imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=15368636

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[–] southwestern71 14 years ago

This all started out with me simply asking black-Americans to explain to me a white person in England why in a country where blacks are hated, the USA, they are nonetheless patriotic & have willingly fought for America every chance they got. To me it makes no sense unless you are either stupid, have no self-respect or a combination of both. Instead of giving me a sensible answer everyone & his damned dog has called me an ignorant racist. I’m not trying to be superior we have a racial problem in England too but compared to America it is non-existent but you still don’t see Indians, Pakistani’s & West Indians tripping over themselves to lay down their lives for the Queen. Just tell me why you are so loyal to a country where you are not wanted that is all I want to know.

Also on Sun May 16 2010 Riotboy-1 said: If you really want to know the real United States try not to visit tourist stops and sightseeing trips and stop watching films and t.v. to get your opinions on American cultures.

Reply to Riotboy: I’ve been to the States countless times & know people there so I have seen America from a non-tourist point of view.

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[–] Cinemaniac00 14 years ago

In your original post you asserted both that all Americans hate Blacks, and that all Blacks are patriotic. I think most people have been attacking you on this thread because you are perpetuating 2 stereotypes that most Americans find very offensive.

I can tell you that from simply living in America my entire life, not every American hates Blacks. I can also tell you, from growing up with many black friends, that not every black american is ultra-patriotic. Some are patriotic to varying degrees, and some aren't patriotic at all. Being a black person in America doesn't predispose that person to ultra-patriotism. That's an ideology that comes from someone's upbringing and in America, much like everywhere else, that can be a positive or negative experience.

Hope this has answered your questions.

Caleb:"Hope you weren't a procrastinator, you just ran out of tomorrows

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] southwestern71 14 years ago

Thanks for that Cinemaniac00. Someone has given a decent answer at last.

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[–] brscth74 14 years ago

Did you every think that it made no sense to you because you are an ignorant fool who has no idea what he is talking about? I have been to several countries in Europe but I do not pretend to be an expert on them. Hell, I lived in Japan for nine months and would not dare to pretend I know as much about them as you pretend to know about the United States.

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[–] QueenCalafia 14 years ago

I think there is a condescending tone to your writing, which explains the angry replies you received. There's something self-righteous about your tone, and I am not surprised you identified your political leaning as right.

To explain or try to answer the question: there were many black Americans who refused to fight. Mohammad Ali is an infamous example of someone who refused to fight in the Vietnam War, insisting that the China man wasn't his enemy but the white man was.

However: many black Americans who fought, did so for various and similar reasons. Many of them felt it would make America respect them more. Many considered themselves Americans (it's their home) and wanted to prove they were [patriotic] Americans, too. Many more fought for the same reason many non-black young men fought. They wanted to prove their manhood.

his all started out with me simply asking black-Americans to explain to me a white person in England why in a country where blacks are hated, the USA, they are nonetheless patriotic & have willingly fought for America every chance they got.

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[–] activista 13 years ago

@southwestern71

As a black American, let me tell you this---black people were kidnapped form Africa and FORCED to be OVER HERE as slaves--we did not even WANT to be here in the first damn place---black people helped make/build this country through slavery and it was built right off of our backs, so we earned every damn right to be here---that's why we fought in every damn war this country has ever had--we've been here for almost 500 years because we fought for EVERY DAMN RIGHT we had to be here. This country is OUR damn home just as much as anybody else's. "Not wanted"---excuse the hell out of me, but we're already been here for a long time, and because we WANT to be here, and because once again this is our DAMN country,too, and we really don't give a *beep* what our fellow white Americans think because we have just as much right to be here as THEY do. They aren't even the original Americans either, so they damn well can't even claim THAT status. And, BTW, funny how you conveniently forget how England basically made itself into an empire OFF of slavery. And your claiming that there is are no racial problems--well, maybe for YOU there isn't,obviously because you're white and have NEVER in you life had to deal with them, but I've read a lot of articles by black/Asian British people claiming that Britain has its racial problems too

Honestly, you need to read up on some black American history, and your generalization that we must be lacking some self-respect or just stupid is pretty stupid in itself and proves that you don't know as much about this country as you THINK you do,or even really understand it, but then, that's typical of white people no matter where they're from, they're so damn quick to assume that black people are just automatically stupid and ignorant because they don't do *beep* this or *beep* that exactly like white people do, or simply because they're black. That dosen't surprise me coming from a British white person because y'all have always considered yourselves superior to damn near everybody else on the planet Earth, but that's to be expected from former colonizers who built their damn empire off the backs of the countries they plundered and raided for their own pleasures, and then brainwashed the people they conquered into hating themselves because they weren't white Anglo Saxons and all that bull**** to justify enslaving them in the first damn place.

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[–] raseverin 14 years ago

Wow… I mean… just wow. I don’t know where to begin. I never understood white America’s tendency to place the blame on others. Whether it is blaming the falling job market on migrant workers ( because sure them trying to make a better life for them and their families is forcing you to choose the Honda over the BMW) or blaming black people for high crime and an overload in public assistance. Face the reality of the situation, black America is known as a minority because we only make up approximately 14% of the population. That means if every last one of us were “gang banging porch monkeys” as you implied in your post, we STILL wouldn’t account for all the f*#%@^ up aspects of the US. I don’t know where you live, but in my neck of the woods here in Fl. The projects are pretty diverse. Oh and another thing, I’m sure you are a nice person and mean well, but please stop using the fact that you have two black best friends as a reason for your incapability of being racist… it’s just counter productive. It is either they aren’t as straight up with you as they should be or they are a couple of Uncle Toms. I don’t care how good friends you are that s*#& you posted was uncalled for. Just calling it like it is.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] raseverin 14 years ago

All forgiven ufodoubleg

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[–] samsan_lee 14 years ago

Not too well thought out thread. It was antagonistic, so it gave antagonistic replies.

"why are you so loyal to a country where you are not wanted"

Thats idiotic and asinine. I mean, you couldnt possibly even get to know blacks in the first place.

The idea is to get peoples ideas by NOT INSULTING them in the first place.

then the sweeping follow up? "you still don’t see Indians, Pakistani’s & West Indians tripping over themselves to lay down their lives for the Queen."

first of all - blacks have a history of military service
2 they were needed at the time and succeeded - moving on to higher ranks or government (Colin Powell was one example).

Its like you're punching someone in the face saying; Tell me why does that
hurt? It gives the impression that the English are still universally
despised. You simply dont break that image.

You dont speak for all English, Pakistani's or W.Indians. Spike doesnt speak for all blacks.
and this thread doesn't speak for all posters.

Stay away from the sweeping generalization - that aspect
of your "curiosity" makes you look worse then you actually are.

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[–] OctoberFox 14 years ago

I'm a black man with a black father and a white mother. All I'm getting is generalizing. If your basis for such a generalizing outlook with regards to racial intolerance stems from this movie, I suggest you consider the source as being the perspective of a single small group of individuals, and that they are not representative of the views most of us take by and large. Spike Lee is a great film maker, but he is hardly the de facto spokesman for all black Americans.

I could just as easily, based on any single movie I've seen before, question why it is all British people are pompous, stuffy, blowhards. Or why are all Chinese people either corrupt mobsters/businessmen or poor villagers/hapless bystanders as depicted in just about any given John Woo film.

Let's not be daft, and let's not perpetuate moronic generalizations based solely on a movie that may or may not quantify a belief that may or may not have already been on you mind.

We're not all a bunch of Kool-Aid drinking, gold wearing thugs capable of speaking with only slang and violence. We are not all devout patriots to our oppressive neighbors. We are not a bunch of servile mindless automatons ready to jump on command. On the contrary, if that is your viewpoint try and surmise that it may be from a very limited personal experience, or as characterized rather distastefully by popular media.

And that's my serious answer to an asinine question. Adieu.

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[–] MycroftHolmes 14 years ago

I’m white & British but I’ve been to the States many times & I’m quite familiar with the U.S. of A. In all fairness all Americans of different ethnic groups despise each other, put an Irish & Italian American in the same room & they would kill each other on principle but the one thing the different groups of Americans have in common is they all hate the blacks. Why then are the blacks in the States so ultra-patriotic & always willing to fight for a country where they are despised. It only makes sense if black-Americans have no self-respect whatsoever which is what I strongly suspect. Any black-Americans care to enlighten me?

This is funny. Irish and Italians hate each other? Not where I'm from. When were you here, in the 1920's? As far as hating blacks, some do I suppose, but all Americans agree on nothing. Even who they hate.
The reason you find blacks in the military is simple. It's a way for lower income people to get college paid for. It also helps when you enter the work force after you leave the military since employers give preference to vets and vets get a boost on civil service exams.

What we have here is failure to communicate!

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[–] Pandjy 14 years ago

Irish and Italians hate each other? When were you here, in the 1920's

Or he has seen The Untouchables!!

I'm just shy that way

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[–] Lupin-III 14 years ago

Irish and Italians hate each other? When were you here, in the 1920's

Or he has seen The Untouchables!!

Yeah, obviously the original poster's trips to America have simply been "I watched some gangster movies and now I'm an expert on American cultural interactions". Then he watched some movies about inner city gang violence and concluded that only substitute teachers are capable of liking both blacks and latinos at the same time.

People need to stop learning all their facts about America from the media.

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[–] southwestern71 14 years ago

Maybe west of the Mississippi River white Americans of different ethnic groups i.e. Italian & Irish may bury their differences but on the east coast this is most definitely not the case. As I said on 21st May to Riotboy I’ve been to the States countless times & know people there so I have seen America from a non-tourist point of view. The farther of an Irish American friend of mine who is now retired from the New York City Police Department told us when he was a cop on the NYPD in the 1960’s & 70’s if a drug dealer was selling drugs in an Italian neighbourhood the cops looked the other way as long as they got their cut because as far as most of the Irish cops were concerned the Italians were animals but if drugs was being pushed in an Irish neighbourhood the dealer got put away. Now tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. You guys are American you're too close to the subject to view it objectively. You can't see the wood for the bloody trees mate.

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[–] miamisfootballplaya 14 years ago

Southwestern, do you realize that the 1960s and 1970s were 40 and 50 years ago respectively? For crying out loud, that was during the Civil Rights Movement. They were just desegregating schools. It is now 2010, we have a black president and while things are not perfect, don't pretend that because somebody was a police officer half a century ago they know ANYTHING about race relations today.

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[–] Indie_Mod 14 years ago

I have to echo what these guys have said.
Southwestern, you made it sound like there were no exceptions. There may be a bit of racial angst in the south, but it's not nearly as bad as how it used to be. I'm from Washington DC myself and it's just not like that. People here get along very nicely with each other of all races. The idea of an Italian-American and Irish-American at each other's throats is so old school.

As for the black people of this country, they seem very proud to be American. Some of them even go far enough to say "Don't call me African-American...call me American. No need to hyphenate it. I'm just like you, except I'm black. I'm American."

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[–] vince-volaju 14 years ago

You're an idiot. You're wasting this board about this film.

Go away. Stay away.

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[–] jporter-6 14 years ago

"I’m white & British but I’ve been to the States many times & I’m quite familiar with the U.S. of A."

You apparently know nothing of the U.S. of A.

The comedian Yakov Smirnoff said it best: "I couldn't go to Italian and become an Italian, or go to England and become an Englishman, or go to France and become a Frenchman. But I could come to America and become an American."

Please, don't come to America very often. You're a very bitter little Brit, and our country is better off without your presence.

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