MovieChat Forums > The Eagle (2011) Discussion > Finally a movie that doesn't portray the...

Finally a movie that doesn't portray the Romans as 'evil'

posted 10 years ago by pulp735
14 replies | jump to latest

If you're even reading this it means you have a computer (and the internet) or have access and leisure time to browse on a computer, which in short means you are enjoying the benefits of civilization. Civilization which the Romans and other empires literally fought and bled for. I know it's the tendency of Hollywood to want to romanticize the "noble savages" and try and get us to cheer for the underdogs fighting against the "bullying" Roman Empire, but many of the things you take for granted you owe to the Romans and not to the native tribes so often glorified by Hollywood. If you want to see what life was like had there been no Roman Empire and humans had never evolved past the tribal social system, go to any third world or developing nation. The real tribal systems are not "in harmony with nature" and are not about "equality" and are just as brutal(if not more) than the Romans ever were. Yes the Roman Empire was at times very cruel and very unjust and it's important to keep a balanced perspective on things, but the trend today is to shift favor too far the other way against western civilization. People today have such little historical perspective and have absolutely zero appreciation for the reality of the world that came before them. The amount of ignorance out there is shocking sometimes. Either way I applaud the creators of this movie for not following the trend of portraying Rome as "bad" and the natives as "good." It was about as neutral and mature as you can get for a historical movie these days and I'm creating this thread to show appreciation, that's all.

[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

There are other posters who would agree with you, although I feel you are being just perhaps a tad harsh with some third world States.
Here in UK, it was many hundreds of years after the Romans left us before we enjoyed even a remotely similar standard of living, as in roads, a sewage system, and as for under-floor heating(hypocaust) which is much more "modern",what more can one say, then finally laws,administration, architecture and art,education.
Oh yes, no doubts at all, "the splendour that was Rome"!
Broadly, all you have written is so very true.

[–] Blueghost 10 years ago

The Roman Empire was just that, an empire. It did have a legacy of cruelty, notably under Julius Ceasar, who deliberately waged an intentional and cruel war against the Gallic tribes for the sake of making a name for himself.

However, I think the larger "evil" legacy in films is fogged by the fact that classic Roman films were made by and for a Judeo-Christian audience. Christians and Jews have a pretty rough legacy with the Roman Empire.

Oh well.

[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

Romans were not always "intentionally cruel" - those who resisted were squashed so that any threat did not remain for the future. Those who co-operated were rewarded and prospered to some extent. They had trade benefits and access to what we would now call Roman "luxury goods", and human nature being what it is, liked these benefits. Result - allies and a peaceful land area, plus, don't forget, these allies were given strong protection against tribal enemies.

[–] pulp735 10 years ago

To add to this one of the reason why the Roman Empire was so successful compared to its contemporaries was it's relative tolerance to conquered peoples and their religious beliefs. Of course there were instances where Roman generals and leaders got way out of hand but if you compared to other empires that shared the earth while Rome existed, it was relatively tolerant. Another fact of history that gets glossed over when Hollywood portrays the Roman Empire. It could be harsh and cruel, but look at other ancient empires and take it in THAT context.

[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

You are so right.
Maybe Rome merely took a leaf out of Alexander the Great's "manual"?

[–] Blueghost 10 years ago

I do recall that the senate called for Julius Caesar to tried for War Crimes after his Gallic campaign. There's a little fact you don't hear everyday.

Admittedly I don't know much about the Roman Empire. I'll have to read more.

[–] ronfirv 10 years ago

There is a wealth of reading material out there.

I'd recommend "Rubicon" by Tom Holland, and if Britain is a more specific study, would recommend others.

[–] spookyrat1 8 years ago

I agree with the bulk of your comments but when you claim that

... the trend today is to shift favor too far the other way against western civilization ...

I think you're overreaching quite a long way.

... the reason why the Roman Empire was so successful compared to its contemporaries was it's relative tolerance to conquered peoples and their religious beliefs.

Definitely one of the chief reasons the empire's authority and influence lasted hundreds of years and well illustrated in Gladiator with the protagonist there being imagined, very realistically, as a Spanish general.🐭

[–] ronfirv 8 years ago

Was the protagonist imagined as a Spanish general? Not for me.
Was Hadrian looked upon as Spanish or Severus as Libyan? I completely doubt that.

[–] spookyrat1 8 years ago

To the Romans, Crowe's Maximus Decimus Meridius was a trusted Roman General. The point being his origins were clearly in Spain as outlined in the movie. Hadrian is generally regarded as being born into a Roman family with a Spanish heritage. I certainly wouldn't be suggesting either figure, fictional nor historical, would be looked upon as being anything other than Roman. 🐭

[–] [deleted] 2 years ago

You do realize that Gladiator was mostly fiction?

[–] porfle 8 years ago

And the arena was just good clean family entertainment!

[–] vwdude62 8 years ago

Having lived most of my life overseas as first an army dependent and then as a soldier I think one of the biggest effects of the Roman/American garrison is the intermixing with the local culture and the spread of garrison's home coulture. If we had set up braces in Iraq like we did in Europe and Japan in time the youth would have come to see us not as invaders but as allies. Look at Germany after WW2

The truth is like poetry. People hate poetry

The truth is like poetry. People hate poetry

[–] TheGutterMonkey (292) 2 years ago

I think the tendency to do this probably has strong roots in natural human psychology. I don't know if it's empathy gone awry, jealousy, or what, but we always root for the ones we perceive as underdogs while vilifying those we see as having power/authority. We do it in almost every aspect of life.

• Between the rich and the poor.
• Between men and women.
• Between police officer and criminal.
• Between white and minority.
• Between American colonizers and Native Americans.
• Between large businesses and mom and pop stores.
• Between adult and child.
• Between jocks and nerds.

Before Christians got power, they were seen by everyone as the victims. Once they got power, however, they started being viewed as the bad guys. The word "elite" is basically a pejorative. Even when I was a student at school, calling someone a "rich kid" was understood to be an insult. It's as if we all get a pass to be openly prejudiced if the ones we're being prejudiced against are seen as having power, authority, or some other type of privilege.

I wonder, maybe, if it may not have something to do with elevating our own status. I.e., the bigger our enemy, the stronger/braver/cooler we look for standing up to them.

*shrug*

All I know is that this seems to be something ingrained in us lol. And our ingrained feelings trump our logic every single time.