SPOILER---How would you categorize Bebe? - 4 luni, 3 saptamâni si 2 zile (2007) Discussion

[–] DianaC224 16 years ago

The key word here is coercion. The woman's circumstances here were desperate, and she was seeking a service that she did not expect would involve sexual intercourse. She was coerced into bed. Prostitutes know that they are getting into the sex trade (though, admittedly, their circumstances are usually desperate as well).

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[–] spider_guy85 16 years ago

Blackmail, not rape.

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[–] bing148 16 years ago

Its blackmail but it was agreed to. He's a creep, but no, its not rape.

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[–] hereticba 16 years ago

How about SPOILER you *beep* IDIOT!

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[–] stoicailieadrian-2 16 years ago

It is not rape technically... The two parts agree on having sex. It is coertion and blackmail.

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[–] JaneSchmo 16 years ago

It is rape. He is FORCING them to have sex. They most certainly don't want to have sex with him, as you can plainly see. Many rapists don't *physically* force their victims to do it at all, no matter what you think.

If you make it impossible for someone to say no, you are forcing them into sex.

It's legally and otherwise considered rape if you "consent" to it because you're afraid of what would happen if you didn't "agree" to it.

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[–] samuelbronkowitz 16 years ago

That's a load of nonsense, and he never made impossible for them to say no.

The only way I could see your argument that it's consider rape if you consent because you're afraid of the consequences of saying "no," those consequences would have to involve violence/assault/murder. Not simply refusal of services.

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[–] JaneSchmo 16 years ago

I agree that blackmailing or manipulating someone into having sex with you isn't the same as threatening to beat them up or kill them if they don't let you have sex with them...but honestly, does he give them a way out?

He gives two very desperate girls who at that point can't back out or delay the abortion no option- he won't even take more money for his "services".

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[–] SCUM-Auxiliary 16 years ago

Had Gabita been honest with everyone involved, had she gone to a WOMAN for the procedure, had the law not been so absurdly nefarious, the film would not have obtained as it did... That being said, the women could have gone elsewhere. It is that simple. Bebe did not threaten to go to the police, or in any way jeopardize their safety beyond the degree to which the situation itself did so for all of them. As uncomfortable and inhuman as his "price" was, the act was not rape (unless you think ALL capital-related transactions to be rape, which I do, but that very much alters the words definition and disrespects those that have actually been RAPED).

The onus is not on HIM to give THEM a way out...

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[–] fhasan 16 years ago

Thats strange angelmengele, you consider all "capital" transactions rape (very open ended term btw) and yet make a distinction between your perception of rape and people who got "really" raped. So is there a hierarchy of rape then? just curious.

Anyways, I'm with you. She wasn't raped in any sense of the word. What Bebe did was to take advantage of the helplessness of the two women. Very cruel but its consistent with the theme of the whole movie.

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[–] beherenow3 14 years ago

Not if your simply afraid that you WON'T get a service you are hoping to get with sex. It's not impossible for the girl to say no, she got pregnant and now she could go and have the baby, or seek an abortion another way. The girls were the ones almost refusing to let him leave the hotel room, he wasn't forcing his way in with threats. To threaten to NOT do something (that under normal circumstances would not be done any way) unless sex is had, does not mean rape. He's a sleazy prick (who admittedly was straight with them), but you can't charge him with rape.

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[–] JaneSchmo 14 years ago

He blackmailed them into sex. It's not like you can go down to the corner store to get an abortion; it was either him or no one since they didn't have the money to pay someone else to do it. Both he and the girls knew that he was their only option.

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[–] emillimeus 16 years ago

what the hell man are you so idiot? its not rape but he take advantage of their situation.if you are in one situation and someone asks someth...dotn matter ..you dont deaserve any answer

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[–] stoicailieadrian-2 16 years ago

I agree the guy was a monster, and can be considered a rapist. My mistake, the earlier post was based on the dictionary definition of rape. In order to be rape, one of the parts must not agree to have sex. In this case, both parts agree. The girls had a choice in this, they could have said no. It can still be viewed as rape because if the girls really had another way to solve their problem, they definitely would have sad no. So, it was clear that their agreement was forced, and as such is considered null.

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[–] ericgeis 16 years ago

Morally he was a rapist. As mentioned, the playing field was not level. He knew the clock was running against Gabita as she was at least 4 months pregnant. It truly was a "now or never" situation and he could have demanded just about anything.

The only thing in his defense was that he had been lied to at every step of the process. I was surprised that he did not walk out as the extent of the deception unfolded. It could be suggested that his demand for sex was his way of telling the girls "F@#K YOU. You can not manipulate me with paying a price. I'll show you who is in charge."

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[–] Forseti32 16 years ago

Of course it's rape!
If I hold your whole family on gunpoint and ask you,
"you either have sex with or I kill them all" and you AGREE
to have sex with me...that means that's consensual sex?

Under normal circumstances, those girls would never allow this man to touch them.
They did so only because they were 100% desperate and had no other solution.
It's rape and that character, Bebe, is the definition of evil.

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[–] gallosgal 16 years ago

Yes i would categorize him as a rapist, he knew the girls could not get him the money and he took advantage of them, they might have agreed but they had no choice she needed the abortion...

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] dark_frances 16 years ago

ahhh... you're the "Memento afterlife" poster. And let's see, you're serious again.

Now just where am I supposed to fit in?

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[–] marius_em 16 years ago

I don't know if legally he could be acused of rape. However it's clearly an abuse.

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[–] kazmand 16 years ago

those girls had a choice - she could keep the baby. she actually had sex with this guy in order for him to kill her future child. using your example above, it's like if this guy would say: "have sex with me or i will not kill your son!"
:)

but i agree that this guy was a creep. a creep who likes to help young girls.:)

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[–] jimmiescoffee 16 years ago

i don't think it's either one. It's more a matter of "you scratch my back, i'll scratch yours."

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[–] mamouliano 16 years ago

I've seen the movie twice. But only here i found out that he not only had sex with Ottilia but also with pregnant Gabita (or was it vice versa? it's been a long time). He had sex with her just before he practiced an abortion on her? That's really sick.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] MrAgmoore 16 years ago

How would you categorize Bebe?

- Opportunist

He was coercive and I feel sick just thinking about it.

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[–] emiliaisreal 16 years ago

bebe is a warning to conservatives.. the traditional threat of abortion being illegal is the woman being harmed by the procedure, this story gives another (obviously seriously harmful) effect of the prohibition of abortion. think about this coerced sex in terms of your own college aged daughter (if you had one) would you expect her to be able to deal with the lack of control and use of her body easily?
alternately, what if your car was stranded in a place where you couldn't reach anyone for miles and someone who is supposed to help you offers to help only if you let him touch and violate your body.
the whole point is that the prohibition of abortion removes the girls from the safety of a clinical procedure. the girls are abused and see no other option. it might not look like rape but i'm guessing that someone in that situation would have post traumatic stress.. in fact studies show that the less force that is used in rape the harder it is for the girl to emotionally get over it probably due to the fact that people around them are all in agreement and rush to support the girl if she has been obviously hurt.. i expected to see something go wrong with the procedure, this was shocking and i know that if it happened to me i would be a wreck.. i mean having an abortion is rough enough...

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[–] stuart-193 16 years ago

Hmmmm ... interesting concept. By definition its not rape, but under the circumstances its worse than taking advantage. What interests me further is why Otilia agreed to such a measure for Gabita, who at the end of the day was the one who needed to "pay" the sleazebag for his services. The only thing I can think of, given than the harsh regime, is if she needed an abortion at any time then she could at least expect Gabita to return the favour ... ugh ... I don't really want to think about it.

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[–] 16 years ago

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[–] advice31765 14 years ago

People who are saying it is not rape:

I don't know what the laws of Romania were at the time so I don't know if it was legally rape or not but coerced sex, which that was, is rape, and it is illegal in many places.

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[–] GuyOnTheLeft 12 years ago

It was not coerced. It's like someone upthread said: he was a creep, but not a rapist. Otherwise, anyone who pays for a prostitute, if they have reason to believe the prostitute needs the money to buy food and shelter etc., is a rapist. And I don't believe that.

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