Why are people condeming Emilia???? - Love and Other Impossible Pursuits (2010) Discussion

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

She & the cheating husband had no ethics. I don't care how unhappy you are in a marriage, there is no excuse for cheating. Formally end the marriage, move out, & go on with your life. Don't f-ck another person on the side before you make the final decision. BTW, 50% of marriages end for a lot of reasons, one is infidelity.

This is the stupidest thing I have ever read.

The point isn't that he didn't stay in his marriage forever.

The issue is HOW he chose to EXIT.

There's a right way to end a marriage and there's a wrong way.

There's a classy way to resolve things, and there's a sleazy way.

Jack and his accomplice Emilia chose the sleazy way. Emilia deliberately chose to pursue a married man. Hardly a respectable move. My guess is if Jack's wife Carolyne was there in the room Emilia wouldn't be pawing at Jack like a teenager and sending sleazy text messages back and forth when they are supposed to be working. Lawyers are supposed to be professionals.

Childish is what they are... Both of them.

And Jack goes on a "business trip" with this woman? My guess is his wife Carolyne wasn't privy to that information.

If my wife or anyone's spouse chooses to end a marriage I expect them as so called adults to

a. talk to me, rather than running to another man
b. go to family therapy with me to explore repair, not waste her time having an affair
c. consider the harm done to homes, spouses, and children before bringing an interloper into a marriage that's not yet over
d. resolve the marriage in an adult, honest, sympathetic manner, not knock some floozy up as an easy out

That marriage could have been resolved much more peacefully and with a lot more dignity and respect to both the Carolyne and her son...

Infidelity does not resolve marriages, infidelity creates an enormous amount of destructiveness and conflict. That is what ends the marriage... conflict.

All you fools out there claiming "the marriage was over" blah blah blah. Clearly none of you have been through or know anyone who went through marital problems and recovered.

Just because two people are distant or argue does not mean they can't resolve differences and reconcile to have a beautiful home and family in tact.

Jack may have been able to save that marriage. Instead he and Emilia decide to pour gasoline on it and set it ablaze.. very classy of him.

Is that how you want your spouse to end their marriage with you sunshine? Lies, betrayal, unplanned pregnancy?

If you want to see other people, that's when you explore ending your marriage with a family therapist. That' when you turn to your partner, not away. That's when you do the work to reconcile or to end your marriage with civility and dignity. You do that BEFORE you actually go and mount other women in secret. A civil reconciliation or termination of a marriage 's a courtesy that every spouse is entitled to.

Instead Carolyne got a kick in the crotch.

My guess is the people on this forum that are pro-infidelity have never been cheated on, except maybe a two week long relationship in high school (or they're still in high school). The ones that are anti-infidelity are the ones who have been or know someone who was devastated by this rape of dignity. The ones that understand this and betrayal of years of hard work and sacrifice are the ones that are opposed to it.

Well, the anti-infidelity people at least can argue with the benefit of some experience.

What have the pro-infidelity people have to argue with? Walt Disney and high school flings?

Hardly a fair comparison.

It's not the fact that the marriage ended, that happens, but its the manner in which Jack and Emilia conducted themselves. They could have handled things with much more dignity, civility, and maturity.

No one is suggesting condemning Jack to an eternity to a marriage if it's not satisfying. Nor is anyone condemning Emilia to live the rest of her life alone. However, Jack can at least give Carolyne, his wife, the woman he promised to love "til death do us part" the dignity of not humiliating her and the sympathy of not offending the memory of their time together with a sleazy affair. This man humiliated his wife and dishonored the memory of their marriage knocking up a co-worker on a business trip.

And as I've said before... yes, the success rate for conventional marriages is 50%, but the success rate for relationships borne of infidelity is less than one percent.

No one is suggesting anyone should be miserable, but we are suggesting that they show their wife, and their son the respect of a dignified exit.

Jack and Emilia rob Carolyne of her dignity as do they rob his son of his dignity. That what is offensive.

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[–] edmondoster 13 years ago

I read your reply to this post, Wgf, after watching this ANNOYING movie... and... I want to thank you from the bottom of my Heart for your great and wise reply to the issue/question posted to this message board, by someone, who is, for some reason, opposed to being honest towards another fellow human being, be it a male-spouse or a female spouse.

Some people, like the PRO-infidelity people, don't like other people who are "preachers", because the "preaching" (of honesty or good values) disturbs them in their lying-to-themselves-and-others-- while they are comfortably acting like inconsiderate and selfish a-holes.
"Preaching" of wiser and more honest people annoys them cause they can't keep justifying and/or falling in Love with their own egos, in the midst of doing wrong to another male/female spouse.
Maybe that's why the Book of Proverbs says that sharing wisdom with such arrogant people ("fools") will amount to nothing, since they will remain unconvinced (they never are interested in the Truth, anyway) and haughty, and they'll hate you for the 'preaching'.

After watching the ANNOYING, DISHONEST, INHUMAN, INCONSIDERATE and downright SELFISH shenanigans and acts of Natalie Portman's character and that of that equally selfish person with whom she's has the affair-- I felt shame for them, in light of their selfish and ugly actions-- I guess, in their stead-- because they selfishly and conveniently, didn't.

You wrote perfectly what I wanted to say about the characters of Natalie Portman and her fellow-cheater... and you made a very clear, honest and true reply to the "preaching-hating" person who posted this post on this message board.

Like you said in your reply, Wgf, those who KNOW how hurtful a betrayal of a spouse can be-- and together with them-- people who actually care to be HONEST and TRUE with others and with themselves-- will see the wisdom of your words from your reply.

Those who won't, will have to do some serious self-looking-into-themselves... if they even care to to that, ever.

So thank you for your great reply, Wgf.
You answered and said it, wonderfully, for a lot many of us,
and it's very much appreciated.

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[–] king_maker_1428 13 years ago

I don't find the film annoying. I am actually pleased to see the relationship between Emilia and Jack fall apart. Almost all relationships borne of infidelity fall apart at the seams. That's a fact.

What I find offensive and a bit frightening is the ridiculous logic some posters on this forum are employing to defend Emilia and Jack's terrible choices.

"They are in love"

"The marriage was over"

"They can't help it if they are meant to be together"

"Carolyne is a b#$#ch."

etc

This is all ridiculous in the context of the real world.

That's my biggest complaint is that some people take the education these films offer in the wrong way. They take away from the film some destructive ideas rather than the valuable warnings and life lessons here.

If all viewers are taking away from this film is that "love makes everything OK" and that raping marriages and households is OK if you are "in love" that's a worrisome fact indeed.

Raping marriages is cruel and senseless... It should be criminally punishable.

Emilia should have gone to freakin jail.

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[–] Eve_of_Destruction 12 years ago

Almost all relationships borne of infidelity fall apart at the seams. That's a fact.

My father and his mistress together / married(30 years +)
My friends Father (12 years +)
My Ex (8 +)
Prince Charles (7 +)

And many others are still married to their mistresses. So not "almost all". I wish you were right!

It's jUsT LiKe cAbO

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[–] king_maker_1428 12 years ago

I am right.. there are tons of stats out there...

The divorce rate for most marriages is around 50%... if a relationship is borne of infidleity the success rate is MUCH lower than 50%...

I have read stats from 1% to as high as 15% for an infidelity-borne relationship going the distance (and 7 or 8 years isn't that long as far as marriages go...)...

1 - 15% success rate rather than 50%?

I'll take 50% instead thanks.. I wouldn't bet ten dollars on a 15% chance...

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] king_maker_1428 9 years ago

OK, let me get this... you agree an act is cruel and senseless, but you don't think that a cruel and senseless act ought to be punishable in criminal court?

If someone steals my darn television set they can go to jail.. you don' think a marriage ought to have more respect in the legal system than a TV set?

Law is how we protect what is valuable to us. What can be more valuable than our marriages and our children? Our home itself even.

In North Carolina you can sue someone for trashing your marriage. You can't in New York which is why Emelia got away with it.

There are many countries in the world that treat infidelity as a crime.

Many of the infidelity reports characterize the experience of being cheated on almost identical to crimes of violence (assault, etc). Victims of infidelity are even treated for PTSD by professional therapists.

I would think that would very much warrant infidelity being a crime.

But let's at least agree there ought to be civil laws to protect people from this nonsense. Even if we don't go for criminal court as well.

Victims of infidelity ought to have some recourse. In most states in the USA they do not.

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] king_maker_1428 9 years ago

Uh no.. they get alimony IF a judge decides they are due any due to making much less money than their spouse. Many spouses don't get any hardly at all. And even if the court awards it, many spouses don't even pay it anyhow.

People who earn a living on their own don't have any recourse. Carolyn in the case of this film would get zero alimony.

And divorce is hardly recourse or compensation for being lied to and disrespected... you don't get any more than your spouse does.. how on earth is that recourse? You get divorced just like your spouse does. How is that a fair resolution???

Not to mention this does NOTHING to the third party trespasser at ALL.

Sorry, but your recourse suggestions are hardly satisfactory under the circumstances.

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] king_maker_1428 9 years ago

Yes, thank you. I agree with you.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Someone stole your TV, they are responsible for their actions. A TV can't make the choice to be stolen or not. But when someone goes after a married person, the one responsible for the destruction of the marriage is the one married, who made the vows and decided to break them , instead of respecting them,who chose to cheat instead of ending the marriage before getting with someone else.A person can't be stolen, because people actually get to choose. to make a decision. It's the one in the marriage, that should be held accountable.

Victim of infidelity should take the blame on the right person:Their partner.The third didn't break any vow, didn't make any committement that they disrespected. They're disgusting but not responsible for someone else's choices and decisions.

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[–] king_maker_1428 8 years ago

Victim of infidelity should take the blame on the right person:Their partner.The third didn't break any vow, didn't make any commitment that they disrespected. They're disgusting but not responsible for someone else's choices and decisions.

Heard all of this before....

They're disgusting, but not responsible? lol Nope, no contradiction there.

No, Emelia's not responsible for Jack's bad choices.

And Jack isn't responsible for Emelia's bad choices.

They both chose to lie, sneak, and cheat. And they are both, as ADULTS, responsible for their mutual decision to trash a marriage in secret.

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

No contradiction. She has no morals but she's not responsible for someone else's marriage, vows, committement. The married person is. Again the third person's actions would have zero effect on the marriage if the one married chooses not to cheat, unless it's rape.

And again, stop twisting facts just to support your opinion. The third person isn't cheating on anyone. And don't come back eith the crap that"she cheats Carolyn when she spends time with the husband, blablabla..." Temptation are everywhere, Emilia decided to go after what she wants. It was up to the husband to keep his marriage safe by not giving in temptation, not cheating,or sinmply leave it before getting with someone else. It's not up to Emilia to take care of the marriage. What she's doing is morally wrong but doesn't make her responsible for the destruction of the marriage unless it was forced, rape, blackmail,....And the law your so keen on totally supports me. Because, unlike you, I don't compare people to things. Things don't get a say in what happens with them, unlike people.

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[–] king_maker_1428 8 years ago

No contradiction. She has no morals but she's not responsible for someone else's marriage, vows, committement. The married person is.

You have asserted this before. And AGAIN you have yet to prove any of this.

Do you know what the difference between an ASSERTION and an ARGUMENT is?

A CHILD can assert. What do you have besides unsupported assertions? lol

Besides, this is a straw man anyhow. No one here is suggesting Emelia is responsible for Jack's marital vows. lol

What Emelia is accountable for are HER CHOICES. As an ADULT, we hold every adult responsible for what THEY do.

You have YET to even acknowledge this argument. TEN year old's take more responsibility for their behavior than this.

Again the third person's actions would have zero effect on the marriage if the one married chooses not to cheat, unless it's rape.

And the the third person's actions would have zero effect if she had chose to WALK AWAY. lol

Why on earth is the idea of her walking away so difficult for you to grasp?

How old are you? NINE? lol

Introducing rape into this discussion is just insulting. RAPE has NOTHING to do with SEX.

I suspect I am talking to a TEN year old here.

If EITHER of them had chosen different behaviors, that affair would not have happened. They BOTH, are therefore accountable for the part they played.

I have said this before, but I suspect a ten year old can't grasp these ideas. Maybe too young yet.

The third person isn't cheating on anyone.

I addressed this as well. MANY times.

She cheats Carolyn of her TIME with Jack. Duh

And don't come back eith the crap that"she cheats Carolyn when she spends time with the husband, blablabla..." Temptation are everywhere,

The fact that temptations exist does not exonerate (do you know what that word means?) Emelia for her choices. lol

Emelia TOOK TIME from Carolyn's marriage that was NOT hers to take. That is what CHEAT looks like.

Emilia decided to go after what she wants. It was up to the husband to keep his marriage safe by not giving in temptation,

Why on earth is the married party the only person obligated to act like an ADULT? lol

Sorry, but that's just *beep* Everyone over the age of 18 by LAW is expected to take responsibility for their behavior. lol

Are you telling me a thirty year old female ATTORNEY isn't? lol

It's not up to Emilia to take care of the marriage.

Yet another straw man. Do you know what a straw man argument is? lol

It is Emelia's responsibility to tare care of her BEHAVIOR, to control her IMPULSES.. as an ADULT. lol

And she is accountable for any DAMAGE she causes when she does NOT control her behavior and impulses.

That's what ADULTs do.

What she's doing is morally wrong

Good. Glad you finally agree she's accountable for the damage she chose to do to someone else's household.

Glad to hear it.

but doesn't make her responsible for the destruction of the marriage

What she's doing is morally wrong, but she's not responsible for her morally wrong behavior? LOL

What the HELL? lol

You just keep contradicting yourself lol

unless it was forced, rape, blackmail,....

OK, so unless a woman sexually assaults a married man, they aren't responsible for their sexual behavior or any damage it does? lol

Unwitting victims are they? Married men just SEDUCE unwitting females like they're CHILDREN? lol

Scratch that. We hold children to more accountability than this. lol

I don't compare people to things. Things don't get a say in what happens with them, unlike people.

Carolyn and William didn't get a vote either. I guess to Emelia they are just "things." lol

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

You’re the one who has nothing to back up your argument. You claim that Emilia is as responsible as the husband for the destruction of the marriage. And I completely disagree. Because like I stated before only the decision of the husband can either save or destroy the marriage, no matter what Emiia does. Emilia has no moral, is wrong to go after a married man? No one is arguibg that. Bit she is not responsible of the destruction of the marriage. The husband is,

There wouldn’t be any actions to have have consequences had she walked away. So yo’re missing the point. The husband could have fallen for her without her doing anything, decided to go after even if he’s married , destroy his marriage while she’s not even interested, the damages would be the same as if she had given in.Proving that only the actions of the husband destroyed the marriage, no matter if the third person is participating or not. Emilia didn’t cause the destruction of the marriage. The husband, his choices and decisions did.

No she didn’t cheat Carolyn. If Jack wanted to spend time with his wife, work on his marriage, he wouldn’t have chosen to cheat, spend his time with someone else. Maybe in your head, hadn’t Emilia been there he would be spending more time with his wife which is bs because he clearly wasn’t interested at being with his wife. Carlolyn wasn’t gonna get that time with her husband even if Emilia wasn’t there.If he wanted to spemd that time wiyh his wife, he could have. Emilioa didn’t force him into anything.

The married person is the one who has a committement to respect, and if they don’t, it’s only on them. You meet all kind of people in life, with and without morals. But you’re the only one responsible for your actions and decisions. Either you choose to act with no morals and destroy what you have, or you choose to not give into temptation.Nothing can affect a marriage if the parties are actually committed unless it’s been forced on them.

Well Emilia chose not to control her impulse. But there is nothing she can do to destroy the marriage unless the married one wants to. So she can’t destroy the marriage.She can’t cause any damage no matter what she does unless the married one allows it. It’s the married one ‘s choices and decisions that did .Not so hard to get.You can call Emilia immoral, selfish, immature…but she sure isn’t in any way responsible for the destruction of the marriage unless she forced him.

Carolyn and William had their vote taken from Jack, not Emilia. Again a person can’t be stolen, something you don’t get, do you? Jack chose to take that vote away from them.Jac is not something you can steal.
Contradiction only in your head. someone is responsible for their behavior , you can dislike their behavior but can’t blame them for consequences their behavior had nothing to do with. For the zillion time, Emilia could have walked naked in front of Jack, the marriage was safe as long as Jack respected his vows. His choice not to, destroyed the marriage. Or Emilia’s behavior couldn’t have consequences without Jack allowing it. It was Jack’s behavior that destroyed the martriage not Emilia’s.

You’re the 10 years old who can’t make the difference between people and things.

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[–] king_maker_1428 8 years ago

You claim that Emilia is as responsible as the husband for the destruction of the marriage. And I completely disagree.

And I refuted every one of your arguments. We all know you disagree, but you don't have a credible argument to support your position.

Because like I stated before only the decision of the husband can either save or destroy the marriage

And why on earth is that the case? lol His decisions to save or destroy the marriage has nothing to do with the choice of another legal adult anyway. His deciding or not deciding reflects on him and his accountability. His behavior has nothing to do with Emelia. Likewise HER behavior has nothing to do with HIM.

Each adult takes ownership of their own behavior. No one gets to SHIFT that onto someone else.

The only exceptions are for people who are underage, or who function at diminished capacity: everyone else is independently accountable for their actions.

But here we have you SHIFTING the accountability of the damage ONE person does onto another person.. for what reason?

Because she doesn't have a RING on her finger? lol

In what WORLD does the absence of a RING exonerate someone from accountability? lol

Emilia has no moral, is wrong to go after a married man? No one is arguing that. Bit she is not responsible of the destruction of the marriage. The husband is,

No one says she is the sole person accountable. She is accountable for HER behavior and the damage that SHE did.

Why on earth is it so difficult for you to digest the concept of shared accountability? lol

There wouldn’t be any actions to have have consequences had she walked away.

Exactly. She chose to walk into a marital situation. Independently, of her own choice and accord. Anything that results from that, her behavior would be hers to own, and any damage she's accountable for. Since Jack was right there with her, this is shared accountability.

The husband could have fallen for her without her doing anything, decided to go after even if he’s married , destroy his marriage while she’s not even interested

And that is his part. His choices, his behavior. You're trying to shift blame again. You have this idea in your head that because he makes choices, Emelia gets a free pass. lol

, the damages would be the same as if she had given in.

NOPE lol Him pursuing Emelia would NOT do the same damage has him pursuing Emelia and her pursing him:

a. no sex would take place
b. no pregnancy would happen
c. no children born

Jack can't create children simply by LOOKING at Emelia. lol

HER involvement exacerbates the damage exponentially.

That's my point. Her involvement ADDS to the damage just as Jack's behavior does.

You can sit here with a scorecard and tally each person's behavior up.. SEPARATELY, and measure it SEPARATELY.

They BOTH did damage here.

Proving that only the actions of the husband destroyed the marriage, no matter if the third person is participating or not. Emilia didn’t cause the destruction of the marriage. The husband, his choices and decisions did.

You have this silly idea in your head that doing damage to a marriage is not the same as destroying a marriage. lol

Emelia PISSED ALL OVER it. Jack PISSED ALL OVER it.

It's semantic debate here. I really don't care if you use the word damaged the marriage or destroyed, it really does not matter to me.

No she didn’t cheat Carolyn. If Jack wanted to spend time with his wife, work on his marriage, he wouldn’t have chosen to cheat, spend his time with someone else.

Again you shift blame here:

Jack cheats Carolyn by not putting time into his marriage with Carolyn
Emelia cheats Carolyn by ACCEPTING the time Jack TAKES from Carolyn.

It's basically stolen property she's using up. They are both out joyriding in Carolyn's automobile. lol

Maybe in your head, hadn’t Emilia been there he would be spending more time with his wife which is bs because he clearly wasn’t interested at being with his wife.

Emelia has no business offering her time to a married man. That is my point. Not Jack's time. I am not addressing Jack's behavior. I am addressing Emelia's choice to accept the time of a married man for dinner, sex, etc Emelia has no business accepting that time. She KNOWS that's not hers to have.

Again Jack's interest is separate from Emelia. Just because Jack isn't interested in working on his marriage does not exonerate Emelia for her choices. Emelia's choices are independent of Jack's.. as adults that's how that works.

Jack chooses to neglect his wife.
Jack chooses to invest time into Emelia.
Emelia chooses to accept Jacks' invitations.

Emelia is culpable for HER part. She just had to say "no." It's really not that hard.

Carlolyn wasn’t gonna get that time with her husband even if Emilia wasn’t there.If he wanted to spemd that time wiyh his wife, he could have. Emilioa didn’t force him into anything.

We have NO IDEA how that time MIGHT have been used otherwise. It is pure conjecture on your part to suggest otherwise.

Even if Jack would have otherwise wasted the time and neglected his wife, Emelia would be morally in the clear and not accountable... IF she had sent him away to waste his time elsewhere.

This is the point: Emelia accepts his invitation to use up time promised to another. Her choice, her actions, and her accountability for those choices.

Emelia's not forcing Jack is a straw man. No one here suggests he did.

Jack didn't force Emelia either. They both ACT of their OWN ACCORD. And the DAMAGE that results, they both OWN EQUALLY, by virtue of them both being legal adults over the age of 18. Both willing participants. lol

The married person is the one who has a committement to respect, and if they don’t, it’s only on them.

You keep asserting that, and I just laugh every time I read it.

But you’re the only one responsible for your actions and decisions. Either you choose to act with no morals and destroy what you have, or you choose to not give into temptation.Nothing can affect a marriage if the parties are actually committed unless it’s been forced on them.

You again shift the argument here. No one suggests Emelia is responsible for Jack's actions or the damage that He does.

AGAIN for the THOUSANDTH time now.. I am addressing Emelia's choices, her behavior, and the damage SHE does only.

Jack's behavior is his to own and answer for, as a legal adult.

Well Emilia chose not to control her impulse. But there is nothing she can do to destroy the marriage unless the married one wants to. So she can’t destroy the marriage.

Great, we acknowledge Emelia's choice to allow her behavior to happen.

The fact that Jack has ownership as well does not exonerate Emelia. AGAIN you shift back to Jack. lol

Emelia's decision to indulge her impulses is hers, as is the damage SHE does from that.

Jack decided to allow her to indulge her impulses and he further decided to indulge his own.

Again, BOTH people accountable for their part in the damage to a marriage.

She can’t cause any damage no matter what she does unless the married one allows it.

You covered this. He DID allow it. Great, you NOW acknowledge she DID cause damage.

Wonderful!

It’s the married one ‘s choices and decisions that did .Not so hard to get.You can call Emilia immoral, selfish, immature…but she sure isn’t in any way responsible for the destruction of the marriage unless she forced him.

She's accountable for her behavior, and the damage that results. You can sort out the destruction of the marriage abstraction you create here. It's just semantics.

Emelia acts, she does damage.
Jack acts, he does damage.

Carolyn and William both victims, unaware of the damage happening.

Carolyn and William had their vote taken from Jack, not Emilia.

Emelia OR Jack could have NOT gotten involved in an affair. AGAIN they BOTH make a choice. You are just arguing semantics here now. Destruction, votes, etc.. it's all the same nonsense.

People act, if they are legal adults and damage results, they're accountable for the damage they do.

Again a person can’t be stolen, something you don’t get, do you?

Straw man again.

I said Jack and Emelia steal TIME from Carolyn. TIME is what I said is stolen, not a person. lol

Jack chose to take that vote away from them.Jac is not something you can steal.

straw man

Contradiction only in your head. someone is responsible for their behavior , you can dislike their behavior but can’t blame them for consequences their behavior had nothing to do with.

And who says her behavior did not have consequences? lol

Her behavior has consequences, as does Jacks. You can point fingers like an angry child, OR you can recognize they're both adults.

For the zillion time, Emilia could have walked naked in front of Jack, the marriage was safe

Really? You think that's a safe way for a single female to spend her time with a married man? lol

No. Single women have no business walking naked in front of married men. That is THEIR choice. It invites consequences unless the married guy walks away.

Or Emilia’s behavior couldn’t have consequences without Jack allowing it. It was Jack’s behavior that destroyed the marriage not Emilia’s.

She did damage. Jack did damage. You already admitted that earlier.

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[–] happyphantom9 13 years ago

^this, times a million. I'm sick of people trying to justify infidelity because of "love".

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[–] angelprincess6879 12 years ago

Trust me.. there are worse ways of ending a marriage than how it was done in this movie. My father left my mother for another woman 5 days after her birthday. He moved right in with this woman the same day. Not only that, he announced it on facebook for everyone to see 12 hours before even telling my mother as she was asleep.

Real love is FOREVER!!!!

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[–] king_maker_1428 12 years ago

Trust me.. there are worse ways of ending a marriage than how it was done in this movie. My father left my mother for another woman 5 days after her birthday. He moved right in with this woman the same day. Not only that, he announced it on facebook for everyone to see 12 hours before even telling my mother as she was asleep.

What's your point?

That Emelia isn't as callous as she could have been?

So what?

She's a marital interloper and it's almost impossible to feel sorry for people like that... They had to drudge up one of the most sympathetic situations in order to offset the offensiveness of her interloping : SIDS.

Your father was probably having an affair with this woman for several months beforehand and never told you or anyone.

Dreadful behavior to say the least...

I refuse to applaud a film for condoning it.

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[–] RightersBloc 12 years ago

She's a marital interloper and it's almost impossible to feel sorry for people like that... They had to drudge up one of the most sympathetic situations in order to offset the offensiveness of her interloping : SIDS.

Safe to assume you feel victimized...what happened, were you left at the altar...or left for someone who had an overall lighter and brighter outlook?

BTW, and i'm sure this will be lost on you, Lisa Kudrow has been quoted as calling the Carolyn character, "a horrible human being"

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[–] king_maker_1428 12 years ago

Are we back to this AGAIN?

Resorting to cheap mind-reading stunts rather than arguing properly AGAIN?

Do you know what an ad hominem attack is? It means you can't argue properly.

And Lisa Kudrow of course is going to say something like that. She's not an idiot. The last thing she is gonna do is DEFEND the film antagonist.

She attacks Carolyn character and people like you just like her even more.

It's all PR man and you fell for it.

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[–] Eve_of_Destruction 12 years ago

Safe to assume you feel victimized...what happened, were you left at the altar...or left for someone who had an overall lighter and brighter outlook?

Safe to assume you were a whore and broke up your's or someone else's marriage?
Ruined the lives of your children and theirs?

It's the cheaters who think they are the victims.

That is why they whine and complain until they find someone who "understands" them. Therefore justifying why they have to leave their marriage because they are tired of fighting or some childish lie like that. Which is what they tell the person they are cheating on with to justify their own cruelty to their family.

Wah wah grow some morals, take care of your family and stop being such a selfish baby.

It's jUsT LiKe cAbO

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[–] imaneassi 8 years ago

Safe to assume you were a whore and broke up your's or someone else's marriage?

When it comes to cheating, no one can break someone else's marriage unless it was rape. If you raped the one married, then you are responsible. But if the married one chose to cheat with you, it's all on them.They broke their own marriage.

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[–] kikyoCE 12 years ago

Safe to assume you feel victimized...what happened, were you left at the altar...or left for someone who had an overall lighter and brighter outlook?

I think you are on to some thing.

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] angellduvall 12 years ago

I was hoping the original poster was being sarcastic, but then I realized they were serious. It's a true pity, but that's the reason that people are divorcing today--because they think like the OP. They don't value relationships of any kind and marriage is about as serious to them as changing their underwear. They're idiots and they don't deserve love or anything in their lives because they don't know what to do with it. I'm not even sure that person is worth responding to or the others who apparently agree. It's ridiculous.

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[–] king_maker_1428 12 years ago

I was hoping the original poster was being sarcastic, but then I realized they were serious. It's a true pity, but that's the reason that people are divorcing today--because they think like the OP. They don't value relationships of any kind and marriage is about as serious to them as changing their underwear. They're idiots and they don't deserve love or anything in their lives because they don't know what to do with it. I'm not even sure that person is worth responding to or the others who apparently agree. It's ridiculous.

Well said! Sanity on this thread at long last!

This is the most ridiculous logic I have ever seen :

Best to come from a broken home than to live in one.

Emelia's husband left a broken home- should he have stayed in an unhappy marriage and ruin his life??

Yes, it is better to NOT be in a broken home than to live in one...

But the assumption is that once a home is broken it can never be repaired...

That makes about as much sense as throwing your clothes out after you have worn them once... wasteful beyond belief.

CLEAN THEM for Christ sakes!

If your home is broken don't LEAVE it.. just REPAIR IT.

Duh!

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[–] Eve_of_Destruction 12 years ago

But the assumption is that once a home is broken it can never be repaired...

That makes about as much sense as throwing your clothes out after you have worn them once... wasteful beyond belief.

CLEAN THEM for Christ sakes!

If your home is broken don't LEAVE it.. just REPAIR IT.

Duh!

I agree. People nowadays are lazy and selfish. They want to be spoiled yet contribute nothing. When they don't get what they want, they find someone else. Either that or they are bored.

It's jUsT LiKe cAbO

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[–] king_maker_1428 12 years ago

I agree. People nowadays are lazy and selfish. They want to be spoiled yet contribute nothing. When they don't get what they want, they find someone else. Either that or they are bored.

Diapers are disposable.. PEOPLE are NOT... it's that simple.. but the other poster seems to think if someone isn't satisfying you that it's perfectly OK to go get someone new and not even BOTHER to TELL your spouse they have been replaced... a rather callous way to treat someone you promise to love, honor, and cherish for the rest of your life...

I wouldn't even do that to my DOG let alone my wife...

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] angellduvall 12 years ago

I actually wonder how the book hashed out Emilia's husband's first marriage. I only saw the movie so maybe there were more details. Was it an unhappy marriage??? I don't know.

In the movie Emilia just swoops in and is a home wrecker, plain and simple. She sees a married man and just goes after him and he follows without question and they're asking why people are condemning Emilia!

And I agree with you for the most part, but if you HAVE to leave it, at least try first. Don't just walk out like that wuss of a man did in this movie. I don't see how anyone can like that male character. He was so weak and disgusting.

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[–] king_maker_1428 12 years ago

I am sick to death about people assessing how "happy" the marriage is.

It really doesnt' matter how "happy" a marriage is, infidelity is no less offensive if the marriage is troubled than it would be if the marriage were in perpetual bliss.

Sorry, but burning down a hovel is as offensive as burning down a mansion; it's someone's home and no third party has a right to decide FOR the homeowners that they can't live there anymore.

It's violating someone's home, rich or poor, troubles or bliss. Leave people's homes the hell alone.

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[–] angellduvall 12 years ago

The reason I brought up the state of the marriage is, I don't think sticking it out till the bitter end is necessarily the best thing either. Especially when there are kids involved. I'm not in any way trying to say that a third party coming in is ever right, I'm just saying that the state of a marriage does matter.

I personally don't think white knuckling it throughout a marriage is right either if both people or one person is absolutely miserable. But I don't think that guy was miserable, he was just lazy and didn't want to try at his marriage.

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[–] king_maker_1428 12 years ago

Yes I agree with you that he is lazy and miserable...

But I don't think in the context of this thread that the state of the marriage matters at all.

Maybe the marriage wasn't worth saving, maybe it was... In the context of the film and this thread I don't consider it relevant. To be honest i do not think there is enough information IN the film to assess that at all... So I really don't see the point in all these posters jumping to the conclusion that the marriage is "over"... Particularly given that they follow that with the erroneous conclusion that infidelity is a viable solution to the problem of the "bad marriage."

Infidelity does not solve problems, it just makes them much much worse.

If you have a marriage that isn't working, exit with as much dignity as you did entering it...

You didn't kick your spouse in the privates on your way INto the marriage then don't do it on the way OUT.

Terminate with dignity, particularly when there are children involved.

That is what the people on this thread don't seem to get... Their attitude is akin to a salad from a fast food restaurant.. it's limp, so toss it out.

People aren't fast food. All these posters throwing about this "the marriage is dead" or "it isnt' homewrecking because the marriage is bad" crapola are IN affairs already or headed for one... And they have no business being married if any of them actually are.

In the context of this thread about WHY Emelia's behavior is monstrous the stability of Jack's marriage does not matter at all... Bringing it up isn't constructive and in fact it just unnecessarily complicates a simple question.

The thread subject isn't a detailed discussion of when to end a union, the question is why is Emelia (the interloper) condemned by many people.

The fact is Emelia destroyed a home. Yes, she had Jack's help, but Emelia is the subject of this thread, not "why are people condemning Jack"... so, Emelia is a homewrecker...

End of story. The stability of Jack's marriage is in fact irrelevant.

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] LovesConfusingJoy 10 years ago

I don't think it's smart to generalize. I believe in marriage and I only plan on doing so if I think the marriage would last pretty much forever. I do not condone cheating in any way and would never knowingly be apart of it but I don't think people who cheat are terrible people. There have been cases of falling in love outside your marriage even when you didn't plan on it. It does happen. And sometimes if you marry that person, you stay together for a number of years. People have already shared that on this board. Now I think there are a number of reasons why people divorce and even though I hope I don't have to endure it, it happens and sometimes it's for the best. I do think we have lost the idea of romance and get into relationships for the wrong reasons and possibly marry people we really shouldn't but it's much better to deal with the individual making these bad decisions instead of generalizing and hating hoards of people don't agree with the same thing you're accusing them of doing.

Every sin is an escape from emptiness.

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[–] PerVersionOFaTruth 13 years ago

[by HestersLetter - "She & the cheating husband had no ethics. I don't care how unhappy you are in a marriage, there is no excuse for cheating. Formally end the marriage, move out, & go on with your life. Don't f-ck another person on the side before you make the final decision. BTW, 50% of marriages end for a lot of reasons, one is infidelity."]

YES! Very nicely put.

Donnie:Why Do You Wear That Stupid Bunny Suit
Frank:Why Are You Wearing That Stupid Man Suit

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] LaWanda74 13 years ago

I can't feel for Emilia because this is what happens when you nose dive into a situation. Maybe if the courtship in the movie didn't come off so sleazy, people could like them more. Not to mention she was so annoyingly stupid.

But on the other hand, Emilia or no Emilia, I do not understand how Jack could have tolerated Carolyn for all those years.

I think All three characters were dysfunctional and lacked "character"

Unofficial Balehead

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[–] teadm 13 years ago

Natalie's character was surrounded by creeps - and no, I don't consider her character a creep just because she "stole" that bitch's husband, but the guy was a walking block of ice, actually everyone in the movie is, except Natalie. Why would anyone want to be married to that jerk?. And the kid... don't get me started with that one. Even her parents weren't likable. At the end, the movie tries to reverse the characters' unpleasantness, but it's way too late. I was hoping Natalie would move on and find herself another man who would appreciate her more but it seems like she was setting herself up for more disappointment. This movie makes a good case for sharing one's life with pets instead of humans.

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[–] bourg000 13 years ago

I thought the film really pushed a little too far Emilia being "the bad guy" for everything.

Really enjoyed it overall, though.

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[–] king_maker_1428 13 years ago

Natalie's character was surrounded by creeps - and no, I don't consider her character a creep just because she "stole" that bitch's husband

Straw man.

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[–] happyphantom9 13 years ago

People are condemning her not because she fell in love but because she knowingly and deliberately had an affair with a married man. Actions like that are absolutely disgusting and selfish.

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[–] Churchchick 13 years ago

It's not that hard! If someone is married, LEAVE THEM ALONE! Don't break up a marriage (even if it IS on the rocks). Infidelity is NOT love, it's LUST.

It is easier to critique than create

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[–] girl4film 13 years ago

For goodness sake lay some blame on JACK! He was the one married not her! And he started it by taking her on the trip and kissing her. The married party is way more to blame in an affair then the unmarried party imho.

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[–] king_maker_1428 13 years ago

For goodness sake lay some blame on JACK! He was the one married not her! And he started it by taking her on the trip and kissing her. The married party is way more to blame in an affair then the unmarried party imho.

Assessing WHO to blame MORE is a complex issue.

The fact is they are both to a significant degree accountable and the fact is they BOTH contributed to their infidelity willingly with full knowledge of the consequences.

Neither was lied to (some men tell women they aren't married)
No one was forced to do anything (both WANTED to have the affair)

They are both accountable.

Who made more mistakes or pushed harder is irrelevant.

They both contributed and both are accountable.

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[–] bourg000 13 years ago

No...she was criticized by her husband, too, for being selfish. I don't think she was bad around the kid. Inexperienced at times...but if anything that's on the husband.

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[–] toky-world 13 years ago

I understand that sometimes in a marriage the situation changes, you grow apart, or romantically speaking the love just ends. But as someone mentioned earlier there are ways to do things. Cheating is not one of them.

I do not understand why people stay together even if there isnt love in the marriage. Habit, compromise to a family with kids, or even just being polite. However they end up doing the contrary, betray their family even themselves of what they initially intended. Just move on.

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[–] always_keep_fighting 13 years ago

Just move on? A marriage is not a "disposable" thing. If you get bored with the person that you vowed to spend the rest of your life with, should you just get a divorce and try to find someone new? God, I hope not. How about taking all that energy and focusing it on your marriage? I've been married 32 years to the same man, and to my knowledge, neither of us has ever been unfaithful. When we have rough times, we just hold on to each other that much tighter and get through them together. If we find ourselves in a rut..."bored with each other"...we DO something about it. As for myself, I've never met a man who was was worth having an affair with and risking my marriage. And you know what? It's not hard. As a previous poster said, just say, "No". It's that simple. I'm/You're married. Off the market. Not interested.
Another poster said that he didn't understand how Jack could have lived with Carolyn all those years anyway. I'm willing to bet she wasn't so bitter and nasty before he cheated on her and tore their family apart. That'd turn just about any woman into a shrew.
Another thing to think about for Emelia's character...Jack cheated on his first wife. He's gonna cheat on her too. Once a cheater, always a cheater. That goes for her, too. I wouldn't want to be a part of this nasty little family.

"What's that? Bag o' tricks?" Glory
"No. Bag o' knives." Willow

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[–] nikkiten1979 13 years ago

I definitely agree that marriage should not be a disposable thing, but if for whatever reason one of the spouses changes for a reason (a death in the family, financial issues, drugs, become violent, etc) and can't change, won't change - then you should move on, but not without trying to save it first. unfortunately nowadays it's too easy to get married and even easier to get divorced - so marriage is losing its value. too many people marry only because they think they are "in love" - it should be way more than just because you are in love since you can easily fall out of love. i think people need to get counseling before getting married and find out why they think they want to be with each other for the long haul. Cheating is not the way to move on.

(•_•)

can't outrun your own shadow

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[–] king_maker_1428 13 years ago

I understand that sometimes in a marriage the situation changes, you grow apart, or romantically speaking the love just ends. But as someone mentioned earlier there are ways to do things. Cheating is not one of them.

I do not understand why people stay together even if there isnt love in the marriage. Habit, compromise to a family with kids, or even just being polite. However they end up doing the contrary, betray their family even themselves of what they initially intended. Just move on.

They stay together because they don't want a divorce.

The problem is they don't have the necessary tools to navigate the rougher shores that every marriage does run into from time to time.

They were at a stalemate.

They didn't want to leave, but they didn't know how to get any closer either.

And there ARE ways to repair a marriage that's facing rough weather. Infidelity is NOT one of them. Infidelity is an escape.

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[–] nikkiten1979 13 years ago

she fell in love and got married????? that's it? that's all she did? oh how sweet and innocent. well i don't understand what all the fuss is about.

the blame is on both people, but let's not give Emelia a free pass just because she wasn't the married one. she knew he was married. she had been at his home and met his wife at the party; even dressed sexy so he could notice her - and how he could he not notice her. she's young, smart, sexy and beautiful - especially compared to his older, not so sexy looking wife?

- it's ok to be attracted to a married man - it's natural, you can't help it, but you are human and you can control those feelings. you can respect a marriage and let it run its course, not come in between and pretend like you saved his damned life. So what if he was unhappy and depressed? how is it of any of her business? you really have to spread your legs for him?

(•_•)

can't outrun your own shadow

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[–] Lackc 13 years ago

She was also cold, contemptuous, sarcastic and rude to her 8 year old step son.

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[–] king_maker_1428 13 years ago

- it's ok to be attracted to a married man - it's natural, you can't help it, but you are human and you can control those feelings. you can respect a marriage and let it run its course, not come in between and pretend like you saved his damned life. So what if he was unhappy and depressed? how is it of any of her business? you really have to spread your legs for him?

Now THIS is a sensible mature post! I love it! :)

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[–] rhorhoda 13 years ago

I don't find it strange that Carolyn, the ex, would condemn Emilia. Everyone else? Yeah I find that strange too.

While I am not a rich urban mom, I have plenty of experience with the same type of upper class bitches and I really do not see them being so blatantly obvious about Emilia. The scene at the beginning of the movie when Emilia picks William up at school seemed totally unrealistic to me. I think if they were going to talk crap about her, they would still be nice to her face. Especially since she is young, pretty, and a Harvard-educated lawyer. They would act like her bffs, at least some of them!

I suppose it could have been explained that the other moms at William's school were loyal friends of Carolyn's, which could explain SOME of their coolness toward Emilia. But instead it's explained as fear of the young second wife. Really? I highly doubt that these relatively sophisticated women would give a rat's arse about that.

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[–] king_maker_1428 13 years ago

The fact is Carolyn was probably visiting that school for years and all those other woman KNEW Carolyn well.

If it was a neutral location yes I'd say most people would not rally together to support one woman over the other (even if that's the classy thing to do most people aren't that organized on their own), but since it was a location Carolyn probably had established as part of her social circle I am not at all surprised everyone is supporting their long time friend Carolyn.

And big surprise, the ONLY one talking to Emilia is the one who doesn't know Carolyn well (or probably at all).

People DO usually support their friends rather than strangers. And no one knew Emilia before before Jack and Emilia's affair and marriage.

That's Carolyn's stomping ground. Emilia is not going to get any support there.

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[–] Aim-JE 13 years ago

I don't buy that, because the nanny usually picked up William. The only reason Carolyn came on Emilia's day was to tell her off. I don't blame her for being angry, but she should have thought about how William. Telling him Isabelle was never a person so wasn't his sister was just hateful.

"Oh, please, just shut up. You're wounding my soul!"

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[–] king_maker_1428 13 years ago

I don't buy that, because the nanny usually picked up William. The only reason Carolyn came on Emilia's day was to tell her off. I don't blame her for being angry, but she should have thought about how William. Telling him Isabelle was never a person so wasn't his sister was just hateful.

Ummm... no.

EMELIA should have "thought about how William" might feel having her SPLIT his PARENTS UP.

THAT is the catalyst that started this mess.

Carolyn's bitterness is a byprooduct of Emelia and Jack's immaturity.

There's no indication in this film that Carolyn is a bitter woman before she was cheated on.

We meet her once before she's cheated on and she's kind and gracious.

HER bitterness is a direct result of Emelia and Jack's selfishness.

If you want to blame anyone, blame your catalysts.

Nice try.

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