So, is Tyson innocent of rape? - Tyson (2009) Discussion

[–] John_Stewart_GL 15 years ago

Hell in the court case there was things to point to him being innocent. The one the woman came up to his room willingly at 2:00 am, and while she was up there she said her self she free to go when she wanted . I have also read that just made a false claim before on someone .

X-Men:Showing racial harmony by having 5 white Christians beat the hell out of a Holocaust survivor

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[–] Langermann 15 years ago

Interesting stuff there, creatorof2002. It may be that prosecutors like to lump on as many charges as possible.

As for Tyson I think it was a real shame what happened to him. Prison filled him with hate and lessened his skills.
At the time of the rape, women were throwing themselves at him, so why would he need to take it by force?

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[–] 15 years ago

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[–] Rahwaj 15 years ago

No, Tyson didn't rape her. There are way too many details to go over here, but this was more of a get back deal than anything. I mean, the girl calls 911 a day or so after she was allegedly raped. Then tell the operator that she was kinda raped. If anyone gets a chance to hear the call she made, you'll be floored. During the trial, she hides her face but goes on Barbara Walters the very next week?! She tells her story with a crap eating grin...say she feels sorry for Tyson and that she wouldn't sue him. She just wanted him to get help. yeah right. Then a few months later, she claims to have v.d. and Tyson gave it to her and she needs X millions of dollars for her pain and suffering. That girl is a walking pile of excrement.

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[–] dumpfile1313 14 years ago

Exactly. Didn't she even say at one point she was mad because he didn't call her..no real rape victim would say something like that.

In Kobe's case the victim immediately ran out of the room saying she was raped. Kobe is the smiley corporate mascot moving lots of merchandise so he walks and Tyson was the "thug" so he is convicted. Nothing to do with reality of the events.

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[–] danmankp37 15 years ago

She went back to his hotel room at something like 2 AM. I think it is likely they had rough sex, but rape i'm not sure. I've always thought it was possible she wanted to have sex with him, but it was too rough for her taste and cried rape. I don't know but going back to a hotel room with Tyson at 2AM, obviously she knew what he wanted from her..

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[–] TommyFlowers 14 years ago

the point is that no one knows what happened aside from the two of them.

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[–] rasajike 14 years ago

Like danmankp37, I think the sex started out as consensual, but Mike was too rough and, as a result, the woman felt genuinely traumatized and probably felt genuinely degraded, hence the "rape" charge.

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[–] danmankp37 15 years ago

And she did sue him, and he settled with her out of court, so she made something off this. Likely a few mil at least..

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[–] Noone_Of_Consequence 15 years ago

she also admitted that he was trying to boink her in the car on the way over. So to believe her story you must believe that she got in the limo with Tyson, rode with him to his hotel where he was trying to have sex with her in the car, then went to his hotel room alone at 2am without the intention of having sex.

tyson has always scored huge points from me by saying to Jim Gray from prison. he basically said "it's justice that i am here. even though i didnt rape that woman, I have done enough terrible things in my life that I deserve to be here."

Not many people could stand up and say that. It's a position he still holds and it makes him sound very convincing.

I look at my red hands and my mean face, and I wonder about that man that's gone so wrong

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[–] Noir-It-All 14 years ago

Let's not hope she was a people pleaser who didn't know she could just get out and go her own way well before she arrived at the hotel.

My husband theorized at the time that he may have been railroaded by Vegas bookmakers who weren't making money on his fights. Usually, he dropped people in the first round. What was there to bet on?

"Two more swords and I'll be Queen of the Monkey People." Roseanne

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[–] Wicked_Genius 14 years ago

Iron Mike just hollowed her out!

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[–] gettinmygrooveon 14 years ago

The United States "justice" system totally failed Mike Tyson. So happy I no longer live in the United Nazi Prison States of America.

The United States has 5% of the world's population and 23.6% of its prisoners...highest incarceration rate in the world.

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[–] TommyFlowers 14 years ago

is there any protection for celebs/athletes in this matter? i mean, yeah you don't hook up with random women, but still. you have kobe and big ben just being exploited really and it hurts their rep and wallet more than anything else. obviously we don't know if tyson actually raped her but i can almost certainly guarantee that if the accuser and some average joe went through the same situation there would be no lawsuit. i'm not familiar with the law in this matter but it seems that anyone can make an accusation. once that accusation is made the police determine if there is evidence to prosecute or not. if they choose no and there isn't any evidence a crime was committed the accuser can still file a civil suit and get paid? or maybe more commonly just get paid outside of court in a settlement? seems like legal blackmail really.

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[–] Wicked_Genius 14 years ago

once we start prosecuting women for false rape allegations, this stuff will stop immediately! let these women pay for the police time, attorney's fees, etc on their false allegations and you will see people take rape much more seriously and this crap stop

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[–] lornamd-1 14 years ago

None of the reasons people give for Tyson being innocent prove that he was innocent

she said she felt sorry for him - Caroline Roberts who was kidnapped by Fred and Rose West felt sorry for Fred after he raped her because he was so pathetic and she was molested as a child by a man but felt sorry for him (if anyone disbelieves this then they order The Lost Girl of amazon and read the chapter about her kidnap)

she never showed any signs of distress - the limo driver who took her home that night said that she was disoriented, frightened and in shock

Tyson didn't need to rape - maybe Tyson thought he could have any woman he wanted and when she turned him down he forced her. Keep in mind Tyson said "I might have taken advantage of other girls but not her"

she waited a day or so before calling 911 then said she was kinda raped - its not unusual for rape victim to wait before calling the police and minimization can be part of the coping process

during the trial she his her face then went on Barbara Walters, she said she wouldn't sue then she sued - So if a woman changes her mind about being seen publicly and suing she is lying?

It is also untrue that feminists haven't denounced false rape accusers (google Camille Paglia and Germain Greer on this topic) and think most men are rapists. I have never heard of a feminist saying most men are rapists. Catherine MacKinnon and Andrea Dworkin were accused of saying that but if you read what they actually said they were misquoted.

False accusers do go to prison. Its perjury and perverting the course of justice of course they are imprisoned.

For those of you who are so sure that Kobe Bryant is innocent then why did he apologize to her if she falsely accused him? I don't know if he did it buts its a strange thing to do if you have been falsely accused of rape.

I don't know if Tyson raped her or not but nothing anyone on this thread has said proves he didn't.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] X_L 14 years ago

I have to agree with some of the earlier posts, she was probably shaken up by rough sex and feeling used. As with most cases with extremes the truth likely lies somewhere in the middle,

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[–] lornamd-1 14 years ago

Based on the Tyson doc Tyson isn't apologetic and regretful so much as self-pitying and glossing over the things he has done. He doesn't only makes excuses for biting Holyfields ear off and he expresses no regret for the other woman he has "taken advantage" of (making him kind of difficult to sympathize with even if he didn't rape that particular woman).

I don't agree he has nothing to gain by lying. Any supporters who believed he was innocent - as his wife presumably does - would be lost. If he were to admit it it would most likely be headline news that his which his kids would find out about.

Its also not uncommon for sex offenders to be in deep denial about their actions or to misunderstand what rape really means. He may well believe he is innocent. Or he may have such a victimized view of himself he will never take responsibility.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] lornamd-1 14 years ago

What actions of the alleged victim and circumstances of the alleged incident show Tyson to be innocent?

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[–] X_L 14 years ago

She had a history of claiming rape, even as a teenager when she was ashamed of herself and afraid of her father's judgement of her having sex. She had previously falsely accused another young man of rape charges too. The man, who used to attend school with Desiree filed in his affidavit that Desiree’s dad had called up his house making accusations. Next day however when he had cornered Desiree in school, she told him that she had to lie to her father in order to cover herself. This new information came to light after the trial and and appeal with new evidence was denied.

She willingly went to Mikes room in the early hours of the morning and when cross-examined she was forced to admit that on several occasions she had the opportunity to leave Tyson's hotel room, but chose not to do so. The lawyer probed Washington's own history of sexually leading men on.

Under cross examination she changed some of the details from the original statement including multiple comments about Tysons butt, this was probably advised by her lawyer to conceal damaging information and gain a conviction.

However, she was reported by ambulance staff to be in severe shock.

This points in the direction of starting out consensual (which she denied) and her changing her mind and probably Tyson continuing against her will or, that it was too rough for her. Im not sure about the theory that she cried rape for a payout.

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[–] lornamd-1 14 years ago

I looked up what you said about her history and it is relevant. More relevant than any of the other "she didn't act like a rape victim" ,as if theres only one way rape victims act and "Tyson didn't have to rape", as if only men that can't get laid commit rapes. However, it is worth noting that she did not take that other man to court and she backed down very quickly. She also had no reason to cover up if she did have sex with Tyson as her father wouldn't have found out. So while it is relevant it isn't exactly the same scenario. Also look at his life history. His statement about what he did to other girls. The other rape accusation against him.
She may have a questionable history but is his any better?

The fact she willingly went to his room has no relevance as she was very young so could well have been naive and she came from a small town where everybody left their door open. Tysons lawyers claiming she has a history of leading men on doesn't matter either as even if that was true it doesn't justify rape.

What do you mean by she had opportunity to leave? Before, during or after the alleged rape? Crime victims can sometimes be too frightened as to what will happen if they run off so that doesn't prove she's lying.

You say that is points in the direction of starting out consensually and her changing her mind and him continuing against her will or getting too rough. Well if he continued against her will that is rape. If got rough, though it depends how rough, then that might be considered a crime as well.

As I said before I don't know if he raped her or not but I don't see how anyone can claim they know he didn't.

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[–] X_L 14 years ago

I wouldn't judge either on perception but the facts like most things points to somewhere in the middle of her story and his, the fact that he never changed his story and she did is huge but also doesn't mean he isn't guilty, it's possible that what he thought was consensual could have been non-consensual to her but it's just as likely that it was consensual and she was angry, she could very well have changed her story to make sure justice was served, that or to sell her story for money like the Barbara Walters interview etc

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[–] mystee_reyne 14 years ago

I was told by a friend once that knew from personal experience, that Mike Tyson is EXTREMELY rough in bed. So if he didn't rape her, he was at the least probably very rough with her. And maybe she didn't like it.

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[–] CrazySpaceMonkey 14 years ago

I guess the intercourse was initially consensual, but once things started getting rough he didn't want to stop even though she wanted him to stop.

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[–] punchdrunkiin 13 years ago

I guess the intercourse was initially consensual, but once things started getting rough he didn't want to stop even though she wanted him to stop.

I agree, just because sex starts with consenst doesn't mean that it can't turn into rape if either party wants out - ie. consent can be given but also taken
away. But to be fair, the person has to make it known that they no longer consent to the sex because if they don't then the other person will not only continue, but they will not consider it rape either. Perhaps that's what happened with Tyson, or maybe she did object and he didn't listen - maybe he believes initial consent allows him to do anything. Either way, I believe that he believes he did not commit rape but who really knows?

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[–] Badlands1 13 years ago

desiree claimed rape twice before, once in highschool when she lost her virginity because she was afraid her father would find out.
The Hotel staff saw them laughing together leaving the hotel, doctors found no physical proof of rape....case closed

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