Don't watch this, please. Everybody.
It is totally crap and causes serious discomfort, will make you sad.
Not even ironic about this, wish I would be.
/RJ
Sounds like it accomplished its goals on you. Like it or not, thats art buddy.
So says The Goats!
http://www.imdb.com/list/Lx63i1kQerA/
lol
TGMTEL
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That's your take, fair enough on that. I found it to be existential with the elegant aggression of Natural Born Killers, but even that was just the first half. The film had much more to offer than most Hollywood garb, to say otherwise is asinine. The method of the cult attaining moment of death insight was only going to be validated by the extreme measures the film maker took to make it seem plausible. Madamoiselle's line at the end after the revelation was profoundly thought provoking. You disagree, you disagree, but it pulled feelings of how I and many others feel about the afterlife to the surface of our consciousness, and you can't take that away.
So says The Goats!
http://www.imdb.com/list/Lx63i1kQerA/
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You have mentioned intelligence twice in your strangely insistent posts trying to persuade people to avoid watching this movie on the basis that IT is not 'intelligent'. Your intelligence, or indeed anyone's, is not relevant to the content of the movie. I hope you will agree that someone's decision to watch or decline to watch a movie is not a reflection on their intelligence.
What is relevant, however, is this movie's intellectual heritage. You have stated that the movie is as shallow as Texas Chainsaw Massacre. This is simply incorrect. I realise not everyone will be up to speed on some of the references in this movie to France's philosophical, literary and historical heritage. So for your benefit and for anyone else who may have missed these things I'll briefly list them:
1) Baudelaire's Romanticism - reflections on the French macabre (also a preoccupation of the film-maker Gaspard Noe)
2) Joan of Arc - the French martyr archetype (very close to the sense of French identity)
3) Historical instances of flaying/skinning of monks in France during the Revolution
4) 1970s 'satanic cult' scandal involving apparently 'elite' members of French society torturing and murdering abductees
5) French history of colonial involvement in North Africa, culminating in the 1960s Paris massacre of Algerian immigrants covered up at the time: an important theme in modern French movies, e.g. Caché (2005)
These are some of the issues viewers should be thinking about when watching Martyrs. Anyone can have an emotional reaction. But an intellectual dismissal is not possible in relation to this particular movie.
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OK, fair enough you're entitled to your opinion. However I did not mention those elements of the movie I believe should be discussed in order to belittle, but rather to be helpful. They haven't yet been discussed on this board.
Regarding your point that it's possible to impute any themes one wishes into any movie whatsoever, I dispute that such an exercise can be done within the boundaries of the credible. In this case, Martyrs clearly speaks to a French audience, with a French national consciousness, a French upbringing and a French sense of self-identity as a people and as a nation. The matters dealt with in this movie do not exist in isolation but have been discussed through other movies as well (as mentioned, Cache and the Gaspard Noe movies, as well as others). As a result, we cannot regard this movie, or indeed any movie, as existing in an isolated cultural bubble. For example, were Hollywood to produce a horror movie about a man locking his daughters and stepdaughters in a basement for decades, raping and torturing them and forcing them to abort their pregnancies, it would immediately bring to mind a certain reported case in international news recently. Likewise, the figure of the presumably virginal female martyr, evocative of the religious figure of Joan of Arc, is paramount in the French consciousness and cannot be so easily dismissed as a consideration of the film-maker in the present case. Nor would French viewers overlook the dusky appearance of Anna nor her clearly Arab name 'Anna Assaoui'. Similarly, the fact that in recent memory there have been pseudo-religious upper-middle class cults of the exact type as the one portrayed in Martyrs cannot be held as an irrelevant, disconnected coincidence.
I take your point that you found the extended tortures in Martyrs tedious. May I kindly suggest you view this movie once more. You will note that there is a metaphysical premise hidden within those scenes, and in the one involving the final skinning of Anna. Specifically, first she is de-sexualised (hair cutting and destruction of her face and womb by beatings), and with every succeeding incident of increasingly harsh abuse a sound is heard. This sound is discordant white noise. The noise refers to the purity of consciousness when artefacts are broken down and mental discrimination is removed. It's a process of trauma-induced 'return to the source', with consciousness as a semi-permeable membrane. It's a poststructural thesis of Kodwo Eshun. It reaches its climax when Anna has her 'vision' (easy to miss it in the movie). And it's attached to the concept of skinning as 'peeling back the layers' - a mysticism resonant in the ideas of Neoplatonism, kabbalah and certain strains of modern religious mysticism. Furthermore there is the French (and Spanish/Portuguese) tendency to revert to the figure of the Virgin Mary as a source of answers regarding the future and the afterlife (many important visions have been alleged in modern times, particularly the prophecies of Fatima). All of these things are in the movie if you give it a chance. The movie is in fact a commentary on these ideas and historical events.
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All excellent points on the deeper French meanings of the film. I must admit confusion over one bit though: what is the significance of Anna's name?
Can I trade in the children for more cash?
I would like to add to this excellent list the following
6) Georges Bataille - French Philosopher wrote "tears of eros" and the photo of the person getting cut up into 1000 pieces first appeared in his book. The last 3rd of the movie really follows some of Bataille's thoughts
7) Albert Camus - French Philosopher - I think one should consider some of the ideas in "The Myth of Sisyphus" to this movie as well.
"It is not the world that is absurd, nor human thought: the absurd arises when the human need to understand meets the unreasonableness of the world, when "my appetite for the absolute and for unity" meets "the impossibility of reducing this world to a rational and reasonable principle."
hey, i understand you made this post many years ago, but where can i find more info on:
4) 1970s 'satanic cult' scandal involving apparently 'elite' members of French society torturing and murdering abductees
thanks!
it is a story of revenge mixed with torture. that kind of suppose to be unpleasant
Rob Zombie is one of the greatest directors today
if a movie, which is basically a series of images and sounds compiled-- if a horror film can make you feel any sortof "discomfort" or "sadness" then they did their job well. great acting, great directing and story. if this film bothered you so much that you feel the need to complain and hate on it you should probably just go back to watching crap like "my bloody valentine" and "i know what you did last summer" hahaha
Don't be a low hanging fruit, bro.
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If you ask me it was just another gore movie. I was hoping fore more than than. As a whole I didn't like the movie and wouldn't see it again. But the two leads did there job really well - I'll give them that.
shareCauses serious discomfort and will make you sad.
I figure thats the point of extreme horror cinema...
If you didn't like it fair enough but telling others to "stay away" is just irritating. It's not your taste, that's cool it isn't for everyone but there are gonna be people who do like stuff like this.
Sticking Feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken.. Tyler Durden
Not all movies are created to be pleasing or to make you feel happy.
Some films, like this one, will push you in the opposite direction, make you feel uncomfortable, sad, perhaps even disturbed.
Making movies is an art form, not all are created equal, and not all are made to suit everyone's tastes.
"Creasy's art is death, and he's about to paint his masterpiece"
I wish I had not seen it as well!!! To many ugly things in the world, and I felt sad forever!! The director should have given Anna a chance to get revenge!!!
shareIts not your fault, but you just spoiled for me that the sisters will not get revenge over what some guys in the movie did to them, and that sucks ._.
I wish i dident read it : 3
My fault because i was searching trough all these comments : S
How funny to read
The director should have given Anna a chance to get revenge!!!
I hadn't really thought about this upon first viewing, but you raise an excellent point. Anna was the only victim (that we know of) to know the purpose of her torture and the only one to explain what she experienced in her moment of "martyrdom". Her last words, her telling of this transcendence, could have been her ultimate "I win" moment, thereby becoming a martyr in a different way than her tormentors intended.
Can I trade in the children for more cash?
Proof you really missed the point, intellectually, of the ending.
Every word you wrote shows you did not gain the broader already accepted points of the film. This film has the unique distinction of having it's Director give extensive hours of interviews about all aspects of the motivations behind the film, which he sincerely admits was raw depression and a sense of hopelessness. At one point he actually apologized for upsetting people with it. Completely unnecessary, but sincere and raw interviews. He even seemed to need to stop discussing the film at some point because the divisiveness upset him. He seems to be struggling to stay mum about the already filmed American version about to be released. I'm dreading it myself. They had said he would be in charge initially (like Funny Games Michael Haneke who recreated shot for shot english language version), but he bowed out - telegraphing it's bound to be a disaster.
Please consider one point - there are hundreds of films with far more gore, torture, and possible inspirational violence than this. I'll use August Underground as a nauseating example. It's the exact opposite of Martyrs, in that it is mindless, plot-less, brain-numbing gore. It has incredible special effects which upsets people who can otherwise watch and laugh at bad gore of plastic mannequin type arms being chopped off with visible tubes that squirt the wrong color blood. Realism cuts very deep.
Point: Things that appear more real, and have some emotional resonance create more passionate responses in viewers. Art of all types can be interpreted vastly different ways. I am here to report, that when I was in a depressed period of my life, I was dared to watch Human Centipede, which was hilariously original, but it triggered nothing serious - but a search for more banned controversial material, leading to 2 films that threw me down a spiral, Martyrs, and Salo. It was hardly their gore alone. I even have to stop doing research and reading the boards. I am a diagnosed Empath. This is a person with a high degree of empathy who can become paralyzed with sadness over the suffering of others, including animals. I agree with you on one thing - the photos in the basement/dungeon were very powerful, both to the story, and emotionally. One of them I found was real. That was further upsetting.
I suggest if the positive response to this film upsets you, maybe read a few more reviews, and at least respect that the emotional wallop some of us feel is truly legitimate, and the Director's motivations and the message he sought to send is exactly what many of us felt.
This thread is called "Stay Away from this movie!" I participate to educate and provide another perspective.
I'm running out of crazy twisted psych horror films. please send help!
Every word you wrote shows you did not gain the broader already accepted points of the film. This film has the unique distinction of having it's Director give extensive hours of interviews about all aspects of the motivations behind the film, which he sincerely admits was raw depression and a sense of hopelessness.
Well the way you take one paragraph entirely out of it's context as a quote, I would guess you are a Republican. I asked you to simply respect the views of others who have a different view than you do, as evidenced by the totality of the Martyrs Discussion Board, which seems to run about 75%/25% in favor of the film.
Your response is reasoned, but implies
-the rest of us are idiots
-this film is going to inspire copycat violence (patently absurd about films in general) (also suggesting you are a Republican/Conservative)
-the Director, Pascal Laugier's extensive discussion about the creation of this film, the motivations, working with the actresses, the fallout all simply "doesn't matter". Artists intentions don't matter? As an artist, I'm angered and offended at the suggestion. Our intentions completely matter.
-technically, they were testing the belief systems of the victims, not the cult's belief system. At least you are consistent about missing all the major plot points, I give you credit for that. Dictionary.com states: "endures great suffering on behalf of any belief, principal or cause". There is inconsistency among sources about the word "willingness". http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/martyr
-I will again offer you an example of
exploitation in unhealthy mannerperhaps as August Underground Mordum, which I think would cause a person like you, their head to literally explode like "Scanners". It (and many underground films like it) make Martyrs look like a Disney film.
Well the way you take one paragraph entirely out of it's context as a quote, I would guess you are a Republican.
also suggesting you are a Republican/Conservative