MovieChat Forums > Choke (2008) Discussion > NO SERIOUSLY, every single amateur mista...

NO SERIOUSLY, every single amateur mistake possible. Count em.

posted 15 years ago by WestTheFest
87 replies | jump to latest

I"LL SAY THIS THE *beep* AGAIN, this film, literally DOES have every single amateur mistake you can possibly make.

1) (as stated) Tone and cinematography are light. If you've reach choke, or are familiar with fight club or know anything about palhanuik's work you know that "light" is not appropriate for him.

2) The pacing was a train wreck. It's some of the worst i've seen in a long time, it feels like someone is grabbing your hand and dragging you through the entire film, everything is blazing by, nothing is playing up, there wasn't a single moment was truly earned for me.

3) ya, lol at those flashbacks. They really destroyed the pacing, they looked so terrible fading to white what utter garbage.

4) This is really amazing to me, just how little of palhaniuk's style comes through. Fight Club simply drips with his style, it's no easy to nail, give sam rockwell some med school lingo to drop in some voice over and bam your in there, but instead Gregg chooses to have rockwell say either the least "palhanuik esque" lines in all of choke or just straight lines that aren't from the book, for example:

The "choking" scenes were terrible, and quite frankly embarrassing. Your telling me that your going to have sam rockwell look around and do freeze frames on different people, makes jokes? "Not that guy....oh man..not that guy...oh not her...." This is trivial and infantile, its an obvious gag that i can only assume is directed at the type of person who's intelligence level is such that they would find something so juvenile to be humorous.

This is not to say that I think adaptations should be 100 percent literal, as Fincher with fight club, you have to bring some of yourself on the table, you have to take risks. You have to make cuts, and you have to give focus. Gregg put absolutely nothing of himself into this and played things way too safe, and it's a great sadness that such an amazing novel got thrown to not only a first time director, but a fearful first timer nonetheless.

5) This one's a classic, some decent music on the sound track roster, but butcher'd due to poor application by the director. See also Zach Braff with Garden State.

6) Unable to make cuts for the sake of focus. Can't have all your terrible flashbacks, including the sex addiction element, include the choking element, include the historic reinactments, and still be at an hour and 30 minutes Gregg, sorry pal. Hey at least you got it in in-time for sundance, you little sell out.

Oh, and that actor who plays denny? Noooot really right for the role. I can see why they did it tho..

"ok, so this is palhanuik...so its like fight club...but we're adding in the Judd apatow element, so it appeals to mainstream, it's a little lighter and more "real" .....here's this denny/seth rogen type, ya this well be perfect..."

too *beep* bad that by adding that element they squashed almost 99 percent of there "chuck palhanuik" element.

Give me a break. Stick to acting Gregg, please.

OH LOL also, was that little "sub plot" of Gregg's character and the milk maid wanting to hook up even in the book??

[–] redradical 15 years ago

Even though this is word for word what you have posted in a similar-titled thread by someone else, I'd just recommend rereading the book instead of attempting to critique the film and rehash already written opinions.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] WestTheFest 15 years ago

@goodfellasgirl

Fight Club, an excellent film, written by chuck palahniuk

Choke, a terrible film, written by chuck palahnuik

Usually when doing a comparison you take two similar things , films written by the same author for example, and talk about how they are similar/dissimilar. The point is highlighted when there is a large "gap" between the two items being compared, as in this case.

I think that's how comparison's are usually done. I hope your not asking me why I'm employing the technique of "comparison" in my argument, because it's seriously beneath me to answer that.

[–] crazyhobo26 15 years ago

you said compare two like things... not two completely different things by the same author.

[–] runtheplacered 15 years ago

Fight club is not the same thing as Choke. What does the fact that they have the same author have to do with anything? Why can't they be two completely embodiments of work?

You tried to sound intelligent but man did you come off as naive as hell. That was embarrassing.

[–] shlink 15 years ago

Ummm... You really can't compare Fight Club (the movie) to Choke (the movie). Yes, both movies were adaptations of Chuck's work. But the screenplays were NOT written by Chuck. The screenplay writers for Fight Club and Choke were two different people, and neither of them being Chuck. Not to mention neither movie was directed by Chuck, nor by the same person. The only common ground between these two movies were that they were both based on books written by Chuck Palahniuk. Two different directors, two different screenplay writers, two different movies.

If you are going to compare two similar things, such as the work of Chuck, then the only applicable place would be on his forums. Beings that is where his novels are discussed. There is no such thing as a Chuck Palahniuk movie, so comparing movies he has not done is a little pointless.

[–] WestTheFest 15 years ago

What?

So wait, your saying that despite the FACT that they are based on books BY THE SAME AUTHOR, a comparison between the two films isn't valid? What, you need two things? You need same author, same writer? or same author, same director?

So by your logic, comparing two films say.... directed by Stanley Kubrick, isn't valid unless he also wrote them both? or also produced them? Just being Director of them both isn't enough... Or just being based on chuck novels isn't enough?

What the *beep* are you talking about? Who are you to say when a comparison Is valid and when it's not.

Forget the fact that chuck wrote both of these novels, how about I'm comparing FIGHT CLUB to CHOKE because they are TWO FILMS. Two pieces of work in the same medium of art, both involving OBVIOUS thematic similarities.

Both involving dark subject matter.

Both involving addiction.

Both involving Chuck's classic "chorus" effect. (I am Jack's _____ and the rules of Fight Club in FIGHT CLUB, in CHOKE it's See also: ____ and _____ Isn't the right word, but it's the first word that comes to mind.)

(As a side note, why the *beep* didn't clark gregg use that?? Rockwell would've killed those lines.)

Both involving "Savior" elements, a christ complex, and apocalyptic themes.

Both main characters being accurately described as apathetic young men with a crazy love interest/mother figure and passive rebellion that gradually turns aggressive.

But hey you know maybe your right, a comparison between these two bodies of work is completely unfair.

-_____________-

[–] shlink 15 years ago

Somebody obviously digs way too deep into things...

Yes, they are movies with similar concepts.
Yes, they are movies adapted from books of the same author.
Yes, the only common ground between these movies are the above.

Yes, let us forget the fact that Chuck wrote the novels. Did he write the screenplays? No. What happens when you use two completely different cast & crews to make a movie? That's right, you get two completely different movies.

You obviously know nothing about the art of directing. Obviously when you're dealing with different directors, they are going to portray the story how they see it. What if it wasn't Fincher that did Fight Club, what if it was Gregg? Would it of been the same movie? Absolutely not. What if Fincher did Choke, would it of been better? Possibly. Would it of been the same movie? Again, absolutely not.

These movies are adaptations of books. Adaptation, meaning it's how the film makers and screenplay writers interpreted the book. Two different crews, two different stories, similarities in concept, but two entirely different movies and two entirely different works of art.

How about we compare a honey bee to a dog. Sure, they both have the same author. Don't forget, they have similar traits such as being a living species. The honey bee works and lives to provide for its' colony. The dog plays and lives doing as little as possible to get by. This must mean the dog is an amateur mistake. Damn, now we gotta shun that dog. Perhaps somebody could make a new one to portray how me, myself, and I see the dog. Now I will truly be able to compare the dog to the honey bee!

...

[–] WestTheFest 15 years ago

Are you actually serious? Because I swear to God I think your joking, it has literally become impossible for me to take you seriously.

Honey Bees, what the *beep* are you talking about?

It's perfectly valid to compare fight club to choke, regardless of who directed or who adapted the book. They are different films but a comparison is valid even SOLEY based on the fact that they are JUST FILMS in the same genre. Everything else aside. Accept this. Your seriously being *beep* ridiculous.

[–] tomazoul 15 years ago

I got choke on netflix and i liked the movie, cause the story is enjoyable. After watching the extra features I kinda started to hate the director, but I also hate the people that gave them such a *beep* budget. Apparently the movie had some budget restraints. Besides that, the director is really bad. He keeps claiming that things "wouldn't work" and it made me think how much better would Choke be if the director wasnt such an amateur

[–] vnappen 15 years ago

Choke is a black comedy... Fight Club is definitely not (it has comedic moments, but is not the same genre as this film at all). Just because Choke was adapted from a novel written by the author of Fight Club does not mean the movies have to be directed the same way, that's just plain idiotic. I liked each film but for completely different reasons, and there's nothing wrong with that... Also, next time you want to sound like you know wtf you're talking about, don't litter your review with typos... douche.

[–] secondeye 15 years ago

I like how incredibly anal you are about the production values, and trying to sound all-knowing and intelligent, but then proceed to misuse the word "your" (you mean "you're") no less than six times in your posts from this thread.

[–] bhall-33 15 years ago

hey, let's not get down on the man because he makes typo. i make that particular mistake constantly. if anything let's get down on the OP because he doesn't have the brains to realize that the way you portray a story should be based on that particular stories content, not the content of a completely story written by the same man. that's day one stuff, chum. i could keep going on this line but there's really no point. any numb nut can see why you wouldn't direct fight club and choke the same way, though fight club is inarguably better. anyway palnuik fanboys, like all fanboys, are always more interested in some unquantifiable 'style' than what the art is actually trying to say. what they are all really upset with is that they had this interest that not many other people had and it made them feel special and now that it's been fed to the mainstream audiences they have to find some way to make themselves still feel superior. if you're so concerned with style, grow a dick and create something yourself.

[–] littlehey5 15 years ago

3) ya, lol at those flashbacks. They really destroyed the pacing, they looked so terrible fading to white what utter garbage.

just wanted to say that this proves youve never read the book.

[–] Hancockenstein 13 years ago

"was that little "sub plot" of Gregg's character and the milk maid wanting to hook up even in the book??"

not to mention that

[–] shifty15-967-563565 8 years ago

Yes, it was.

[–] iCode_v2 9 years ago

it has literally become impossible for me to take you seriously.

Now you know how almost everyone else here felt the second they opened this thread.

[–] KlausHergesheimer 9 years ago

"It's perfectly valid to compare fight club to choke"

no, it's not. although they originated from the same author, they are two different entities produced under two different organisations.

[–] chrisjnelson13 15 years ago

You're kind of an idiot.

Chris J. Nelson

[–] leegielen 15 years ago

not disagreeing totally with what you are saying, but just cause the author is the same doesn't carry much weight. like comparing king's "stand by me" to king's "the shining." movie versions of course.

[–] nakedinthelimelight 15 years ago

Sorry man, but I completely agree Schlink...

Comparisons between Fight Club and Choke are completely asinine.

The comparison between the two films is just as relevant as comparing Choke to Jumper(written by the same writer as Fight Club) or comparing Choke to Panic Room(directed by the same director as Fight Club)

Comparing these two movies, is like comparing any two of the over 700 films adapted from the works of William Shakespeare. Baz Lurhman's "Romeo + Juliet" to Tim Blake Nelson's "O" or Julie Taymor's Titus to Gil Junger's "10 Things I Hate About You".

In all cases the source material comes from the same author, but the movies have little to nothing to do with one another.

[–] Felix-La-PuBelle 15 years ago

You seem to be critiquing the literalness of the book adaptations.

Which is fine.

But that's not the same as critiquing the film.

[–] Tchoutoye 13 years ago

@WestTheFest:
You need to tone down the histrionics. Your use of CAPS, *beeps*, ad hominems and double question marks merely gives people the impression that either you haven't been taking your medication or that you've been taking way too much of it.

[–] oscarstegland 10 years ago

Wow, you're dense!

No it's not the same as your Kubrick comparison. Kubrick was the driving force of his films and he had final cut. If anything was wrong with his films, one would have to complain directly to him.

If anything is wrong with either Choke or Fight Club, you can't complain to Chuck because he has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FILMS! I thought a three year old might be able to figure that out.

This is more akin to complaining that the language and tone of the film adaptations of Gone, Baby, Gone and Shutter Island aren't exactly the same, because well they were both written in a different medium by the same dude. And then forget to mention that they have nothing in relation with each other in book form either, with the one exception that one person wrote both.

Your whole post can basically be summarized like this "I wish Choke was more like Fight Club because I think they handled darkness better in that film".

Every amateur mistake you list is either something that's completely based on your own opinion or appreaciation of films, or they're active choices that directors make within the confines of their own style. "Having a killer soundtrack" - give me a *beep* break. Do you have any idea how many films have been made without a soundtrack at all, let alone a killer one? A lot of them are great. Why? Because there's no such thing as a magical checklist to make a great film. Each story requires it's own attention, not the same treatment as something entirely different because that's how we get soulless garbage.

Finally, while there's no checklist to the perfect film, there are loads of amature mistakes to make but you haven't touched on a single one in this post.

[–] DrChrisCooper 15 years ago

"Fight Club, an excellent film, written by chuck palahniuk

Choke, a terrible film, written by chuck palahnuik"

Chuck wrote the books, not the movies.

How can we expect anyone to listen if we are using the same old voice? We need a new noise.

[–] bandaidsandbikes 15 years ago

chuck palahniuk didnt think it was such a bad adaptation..and while i didnt think it was terribly catching the first time i watched it, sumthing in the story caught me. in the end it grew on me. i think this movie's good.

[–] rockrobotrock 15 years ago

foooooor the record

neither of these films are written by chuck palahniuk ;)

the novels that the scripts were based on were written by chuck palahniuk

[–] chiponmashoulda 15 years ago

this guy is a retard. the only problem that this movie has is an audience like u. u walked into the movie saying u were not gonna like it, and therefore u will never like it

www.myspace.com/albeaglesfan4791

[–] WestTheFest 15 years ago

This coming from "iuvallmovies"

I can see we are going to differ on a very fundamental level iluvallmovies, because most movies are terrible.

So if your referring to anytime I watch a film that I'm thinking more than likely, if I've never seen anything from the director before, that this film is going to be garbage? Then yes, that's true.

And I find your statement to reek of ignorance. Don't post here again.

[–] cllm89 15 years ago

Maybe if you learned to type or spell, people would take you more seriously. Nobody wants to hear an opinion from some bumbling moron that can't even correctly type "read."

[–] WestTheFest 15 years ago

Someone trying to invalidate a post on web forums by citing spelling/grammar, this is original. Get over yourself.

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] EddieAteDynamite 15 years ago

West, im afraid you hit the nail on the head. you put my thoughts while i was watching the movie, into words ( even though there not the words i would use)

but i ask you this: have you read the book?

and i agree with comparing this film with fight club, because if you've read fight club it's very similar. this film should have been a whole lot darker

[–] WestTheFest 15 years ago

@ Eddie,

Yes, i've read both Choke and Fight Club. I've read just about every palaniuk I can get my hands on (everything but rant I think?) and yes, I think there should at least by an agreement that palaniuk's work is dark, and/or has a dark tone. My favorite novel is Survivor.

It's such a sadness to me that they *beep* up on Choke, what with fight club being the massive cult hit that it is. I mean it is like....THE cult movie. Arguably the most popular cult film of all time, esp. with the newer generations.

So like...all they had to do was take what made Fight Club so amazing, and apply it with choke. Fantastically dark visuals, chuck's tone and style perfectly captured by ed norton, The Dust Brothers, ect, ect...

Now we all know Fight Club more or less bombed at the box office. So if that was the reason they decided to "go a different way" with it, then clearly they didn't really care about making quality film, they wanted to make money.

And here's the kicker, Fight Club bombed IMO because it was obviously way ahead of its time. If Choke was Fight Club, I think these days it would have done very well. It makes no sense not to make something of quality now anyway, because even if you fail at the box office you can then at least recoup some in DVD sales.

I found this to be an interesting read and possible insight as to what happened with this film:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1024715/board/thread/126087600

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] davidjha 15 years ago

I think I can solve the argument about what you can and can't compare. It's like the transitive property of geometry. Fight Club the book was like Fight Club the movie. Choke the book was like Fight Club the book. Choke the movie was NOT like all the rest. So my judgement is this: (because I have supreme authority on the subject) you CAN compare Choke the movie to Fight Club the movie, but ONLY if you don't like Choke the movie. Problem solved.

[–] grameightball 15 years ago

The pseudo rape attack scene was about the funniest part. All else is agreed.

[–] filmboy303 15 years ago

Can't compare it to Fight Club. Two totally different movies and tones. Directed poorly, but excellent acting and otherwise hilarious.

Rape scene is genius.

What a weird sentence to write.

[–] another242 15 years ago

OP: Agreed on pretty much every point you stated.

However, I think the choking freeze-frame scene is basically right out of the book, how he evaluates his target for who will be most profitable. And if I recall, the sub plot of Gregg's character and the milk maid was in the book as well. I lost my copy of the book awhile ago so I can't verify this, anyone else care to chime in?

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] keria1979 15 years ago

agree!! i didnt read the book,,but the movie was terrible!!!

[–] citizengayne 15 years ago

I haven't read Choke but after watching the film, I'd say I cheated myself pretty badly this time around. I'd also say that WestTheFest pretty much nailed all my concerns while watching this film, which are namely, that I was watching a heavily diluted spoiler of a much richer text. When the story is the best thing going for a film and its an adaptation, you can pretty comfortably say that the adaptation was in vain.

Fest's points were perfectly articulate and reasonable. Why he's received so much crap from blind fans of this film is beyond me - I picture idiot bloggers and such so stoned on their own conceit, they can't snap out of their own perspective. I can imagine being trashed by such dilettantes is a tragically ironic experience.

Also, I should clarify that I didn't hate this film. Mostly, I resented myself for ruining what surely would've been a book way up my alley. I lose.

Its alright Ma, its life and life only

[–] WestTheFest 15 years ago

Still read the book citizengayne, the experiences are the difference of night and day, so much so that it will be like you've never even been spoiled.

Also thank you for the relief of a legitimate response. Intelligence FTW.

It seriously is beyond me how this film has any fans whatsoever, regardless of any personal offense taken from the tone of my initial post. What a joke.

[–] mshmouth 15 years ago

I just watched it, read WestTheFest's post, and definitely agree. The writer/director and producers made some horrible choices due to their lack of experience. My guess is that Gregg read the book, loved it, and genuinely wanted to bring it to a mass audience. They only had a 3 million dollar budget, which would explain some of the shortcuts and mistakes (Fight Club's budget was $63 million and its director went on to do The Curious Case of Benjamin Button). They miraculously signed three actors who have previously delivered brilliant performances, i.e. Sam Rockwell in The Green Mile, Kelly Macdonald in No Country for Old Men, and of course Anjelica Huston in Prizzi's Honor. The most obvious of the problems with Choke was that the dialogue and interaction between these gifted actors was completely awkward, and that leads me to the same conclusion:

Poor direction of a poor adaptation.

[–] go_darwin 15 years ago

I live in Canada and i feel sorry for the people who have intelligence in the states, for having to deal with anyone who actually truly believes this is a good movie. Mind you i'm sure there are some Canadian fans of this production.....but i have yet to meet or hear of any lmfao

[–] brian-740 15 years ago

Nothing shows off that brilliant Canadian intelligence of yours like basically saying "anyone who disagrees with me and thinks this was good is stupid." Way to go, arrogant prick.