MovieChat Forums > Centurion (2010) Discussion > Yes, black Africans served in Rome's Leg...

Yes, black Africans served in Rome's Legions!


There is every likelihood that black Africans did serve in Rome's legions at various stages, and were not just auxilliaries (Numidian cavalry) or servants, as troops were recruited from all across the global Empire, and anyway Rome didn't have the same hang-ups about race as Westerners do today.

Black people have been archaeologically proven to have been members amidst Roman Britain's high society, for example- wealthy and influential, so why not as soldiers?

By the 2ndC ad the majority of Rome's legions were not even Italian/Romans.

I think that the white supremacists and/or extremist idiots have been foaming at the mouth over the mere possibility?

reply

Fantasy.

reply

Reality.

reply

♫Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy? Caught in a landslide, No escape from reality♪ :P

Sorry, couldn't help myself. You are right though, given that the Romans colonised the province of what is now Tunisia and Algeria (and what was then the location of the ancient city of Carthage) they would have conscripted locals as they did with every other conquered region.

reply

The entire Roman empire was a racially integrated Empire made up of several people from hundreds of different lands from as south as Numidia and as far east as Asia minor.

In fact, the word Roman wasn't used to relate to a Race, but a Citizenship. Much like how people from the US are called American but are Racially Black, White or Native.
So there isn't an actual Roman race to begin with. In fact, the Forefathers of Romulus and Remus came from Rum, a country that was located in Asia minor.


Numidia, like Rome, was also an Empire with a sparsely Racial family. Phoenicians, Greeks, Syrians and Egyptians all lived in Numidia.

reply

I can't believe people are so ignorant that they can't grasp the idea of black Legionnaires. Even in the conquered countries they had slaves, and slavery was a huge trade, so it's inevitable that there would have been black Legionnaires.

Why is it so hard for people to grasp?

reply

Of course Africans (likely north African) had served in both the Roman legionary army and the Roman auxiliary army. There was ample employment opportunity in both.

To join the legions you needed to be a Roman citizen, at least 5'8" tall, below the maximum allowable age of which I can't remember right now, and of course in complete physical health with no disabilities whatsoever. The background of the applicant was checked too for undesirables. The lowest age to join was 18 although there is historical evidence that indicates young men of 16 or 17 succeeded in sneaking in, probably because they looked older. (The height requirement lowered to 5'7" in the 4th century and lower to 5'5" in the 5th century as times got more desperate.)

To join the auxiliary legions you only needed to be of completely good physical health and no disabilities. Even individuals from enemy nations could join. Also there was no restriction on Roman citizens from joining the auxiliaries if they so desired, for whatever reason. I don't know what the maximum allowable age was.

There is no historical evidence to indicate any ethnic or racial bias against enrollment into the legions or the auxiliaries. Begin drafted into the legions did take place on very rare and only in extreme dire circumstances such as the drafting of nearly all Rome's gladiators during the reign of Marcus Aurelius, at the height of the Marcommani/Quaadi Wars. Drafting took place more commonly in the latter fourth century.

reply

Wow, and there was me who can hardly scratch the surface! Didn't this guy say he was from a 'cohort'. What's that?

The only thing I seem to remember from my knowledge of Romans was the 'Italian' Romans had the rectangle shields and non 'Italians' had a more oval one. I'm now likely talking rubbish because thinking of it, an oval shield wouldn't be of propper use in their tactical use when forming the shields up, I guess. Any ideas?

reply

doesn't matter.. most romans weren't "lily white" in the desert to begin with. This was why so many young people now a days scratch their head when they look back at those 50's films of Elizabeth Taylor as Cleopatra.



some days, it's not worth chewing through the restraints..

reply

I can see you studied your history. Bravo.
You're right. The early Romans did NOT resemble northern Europeans from say, Germany or Gaul. The early Romans were a Mediterranean Caucasian people. They were dark-haired, dark-eyed, and had a tan complexion, what is most commonly-referred to as 'olive-skinned', whatever that means. It would not be that inaccurate to describe the early Romans as, Hispanics. Beginning with the empire, northern Europeans began to intermix with the Italian Romans. This accelerated when the declining western Roman empire suffered recurring Germanic invasions. As a result of all this genetic intermixing with northern Europeans, the Italians began to change in appearance as well.

Some people like me, find a certain irony in all this. There's a lot of people out there in the academic world who look sourly back on old western civilization and the advance of the white people over the rest of the world. The most powerful Caucasians two thousand years ago were tan-skinned or light-brown-skinned people who often defeated and enslaved the white-skinned Caucasian peoples of the northern climes until the white-skinned whites overcame the western Roman empire and imposed germanic culture and language upon today's European world. But two thousand years ago, it was the time of the brown-skinned white peoples!

reply

A Cohort is a unit of the Roman military:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohort_%28military_unit%29



The Spacehunter Forum:
http://spacehunter.phpbbhosts.co.uk/

reply

There's Septimius Severus too. He was the first Roman Emperor that was born in Africa. His family was of Phoenician, not black African, descent although there are references both to the dark colour of his skin, and the fact that he kept his African accent.

Far an taine ‘n abhainn, ‘s ann as mò a fuaim.

reply

You are right, lianachan.
There is evidence in an English museum today of a small grave-stone, with inscriptions, excavated from Arabeia (South Shields) which testifies to Africans having served in the Legions, some senior legionaries too, in Britannia. Fact.

And Severus marched North using Dere Street/Via Regis, way beyond Hadrian's Wall, with his sons, to finally deal with those tribes which were troublesome. Alas, he was then quite ill, and returned to Eboracum (York) where he died in AD211. Unfortunately his son,Caracalla, before having Geta his brother murdered, abandoned the campaign which his late father had started, and had been increasingly successful. A case there then of, what if........?

reply


I have to say this is the most informative thread I've ever read in IMDB. Thanks to all for the wealth of historical information :)


If you can't stand the heat in the kitchen turn off the stove

reply

Thanks this comment - some older threads on The Eagle board, especially over 1 year ago, were even more informative, with a mine of info., some from academics and Classicists. It was a real pleasure to read them all (only a few trolls too!)and contribute even in a small way.

reply

Please do actual research and don't resort to IMDB forums be historically informed.

reply

[deleted]

Amazing isnt it?
Ancient Rome was more advanced in some ways than modern USA.
There were no Roman birthers.... You didn't have to be born in Rome to be on the senate or be ceaser.

Romans also had a form of social security.
Every roman citizen got a monthly bread ration.




Eat the Neocons.

reply

Amazing isnt it?
Ancient Rome was more advanced in some ways than modern USA.
There were no Roman birthers.... You didn't have to be born in Rome to be on the senate or be ceaser.


So are you like saying you think Obama was not born in this country?

Romans also had a form of social security.


Umm..so do Americans, stupid.

Every roman citizen got a monthly bread ration.


Yes and that is all they got. If you were sold into slavery or something like that you didn't. Ask the North Koreans how well rationing works for them.

...Oh that is right, you can't. North Korean citizens are blocked from the internet as well.


reply

So are you like saying you think Obama was not born in this country?


Umm..so do Americans, stupid.


Ask the North Koreans how well rationing works for them.



Wow! Rome to the USA and North Korea all in one posting.


You're a regular space cadet with a Phd in reading between the lines...clown!

reply

You're a regular space cadet with a Phd in reading between the lines...clown!


Nope, just an awake, informed American, jackass.

reply

... just an awake, informed American...


...with delusions of normality!

reply

...with delusions of normality!


No, that would be YOU and your brainwashed ilk.

reply

Who is even saying otherwise?
It's a well known fact that half of the Roman army was comprised of auxiliaries recruited from conquered provinces (and that includes North Africa), who would later become Roman citizens after 20 years of service in the army. An Empire the size of Rome with it's ethnic diversity, wouldn't have survived for so long without integrating conquered peoples.

reply

In the times of Augustus over 35% of the Roman Army was made up of auxiliaries from N. Africa. Just over a hundred years later, auxiliaries from these same Provinces, and others, had increased to at least 75%.
Some archers from Judea are known to have served in Britannia for some time.

reply