MovieChat Forums > Taking Chance (2009) Discussion > U.S. treatment of its KIAs/veterans puts...

U.S. treatment of its KIAs/veterans puts UK to shame...

posted 15 years ago by joestone99uk
34 replies | jump to latest

I'm from the UK, and this film brought tears to my eyes and a lot of envy and anger...

Tears for all those soldiers who fall in a foreign field...

Envy because Americans are "allowed" to be patriotic, to celebrate their flag and be proud about their country and traditions...

and anger because in my country we are not allowed to be patriotic, to celebrate our flag, traditions etc. for fear of offending certain `minorities` and being labelled a "Nazi" or a "racist".

Some of our (British) injured veterans are berated (called baby killers), spat upon and abused in civilian hospitals (yes, our craven government just dumps them in a general hospital) by left-wing/muslim hospital workers and patients, with many people refusing to treat them because "they are against the war in Iraq/Afghanistan"... Some sickos even laugh and jeer at fallen soldiers saying stuff like "serves 'em right for enrolling in the first place".

In some cases, hotel clerks have refused to allow serving soldiers/veterans to check in because "it might upset the other guests". In other cases, people have been told by the police and local councils to take down the Union flag or the Cross of St.George flag outside their houses "because it makes minorities feel threatened"! If you don't, they can fine you or either imprison you... can you imagine Americans standing for that?

No-one (civilian) salutes or pays respect to the coffins here, no-one flashes their headlights out of respect, no-one looks at the flag with respect... just glib, cynical one-liners and re-hashed left-wing cliches are the norm.

Why are Americans allowed to take pride in being American while we (white, indigenous Brits)are always having to tread on egg shells about the feelings of minorities and be basically ashamed at being white Anglos...

If I wasn't so damn proud about being an Englishman and determined to GET MY COUNTRY BACK, I'd almost be tempted to apply for U.S. citizenship I'm that envious...

[–] mbvh 15 years ago

I'm very sorry things are that way in the UK. I have heard the soldiers just don't get the respect they deserve.

As for what you saw in the movie, that's the way it is over here. I have seen it time and time again. I have gone out to dinner with my family and a newly arrived soldier and his wife and kids are out at a family restaurant, he's still in his fatigues. He looks like he literally just got off the plane.

I thank him for his service as I pass him and he nearly tears up, as does his wife. As the night goes on, I see people pass by his table and shake his hand or come over and put their hand on his back and mouth the words "thank you" or "god bless".

It's very moving.

As for the movie, the part when the cars started to make a line with their lights on, I have seen stuff like that. I got really choked up when I saw that. Watching this film and seeing the everyday people and how they react made it feel like it was a documentary of real events.

[–] shannon-elements 15 years ago

LOL, I actually hate that stuff. I mean, don't get me wrong, I appreciate and am touched by the notion, but it just isn't necessary. I signed up. I knew what I was getting myself into.

There have been several occasions where I was at the airport, waiting for my flight and grabbing a bite to eat, when I asked for my check and the server says "oh, that couple that was sitting behind you, yeah, they picked it up." I didn't even get a chance to say thanks. They just quietly payed for my meal and left. Made me feel kind of guilty, lol.

Then another time also at an airport, there was a whole bunch of us about to head to the Mid-East when the entire airport started cheering and clapping when we started walking(in a single-file line, mind you) to our plane. That's just *beep* embarassing! Haha. I never want to be subjected to that ever again!

[–] agrofelipe 15 years ago

"There have been several occasions where I was at the airport, waiting for my flight and grabbing a bite to eat, when I asked for my check and the server says "oh, that couple that was sitting behind you, yeah, they picked it up." I didn't even get a chance to say thanks. They just quietly payed for my meal and left.

Then another time also at an airport, there was a whole bunch of us about to head to the Mid-East when the entire airport started cheering and clapping when we started walking(in a single-file line, mind you) to our plane."

Oh my god, that's great!

[–] debaryman101 15 years ago

You have got to be kidding me??? Your serious, YOU DONT LIKE IT?? what if I were to walk up to you and spit on you?? would you like that instead. I had that done to me. I fought in panama "a short-war"

I was wearing a jacket with my unit patch on it, supposedly all I did in panama was kill civilians according to the guy that spat on me. I can't believe it. I know when your in you don't expect it but when it happens accept it.

I don't believe it, someone who hates a little graditude. A THANK YOU

I thank you for your service but your an idiot for feeling that way

go look on you tube ok type in the name Sgt First Class John C. Beale

watch that video this man had to die to get a awesome thank you. Think about it!!!!!!

people pay for your meal and you feel guilty and people cheer for you because you help a country.

[–] rrosen-5 15 years ago

To the original poster: Blind patriotism is just about the worst thing a person can be. Please don't envy the United States. It's disgusting and is setting our country back severely.

[–] nickm2 15 years ago

"To the original poster: Blind patriotism is just about the worst thing a person can be. Please don't envy the United States. It's disgusting and is setting our country back severely."

AND that smug superior attitude is even MORE disgusting in my personal point of view...welcome to the 'ignore button'

NM

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[–] ptb-2 15 years ago

It shames me to tell you that what you describe about treatment of soldiers in the uk is reminiscent of America in the 1970's. That is exactly how Vietnam returnees were treated.

[–] joestone99uk 15 years ago

Thanks for your replies. Yeah, I heard about the disgraceful treatment some Vietnam vets got in the USA in the 60s and 70s and it depresses me to tell you that is what many of our blokes are getting today from liberal activista bureaucratic types, muslims and holier-than-thou left-wing student types.

A lot of my anger is also directed at the government who have under-funded our military for years and not issued them with the best gear, etc. which HAS COST LIVES.

There's a civil war coming in the UK, mark my words... we (the silent, moral majority of white indigenous workers) are sick of these un-patriotic groups and if the economy tanks then expect blood on the streets. Be sure of this:

I WILL FIGHT FOR MY ENGLAND TO THE DEATH!

[–] meyer_joseph 15 years ago

I am deeply saddened by what has been going on in your country. I am so grateful for so many things we, as Americans, have inherited from British culture, and find it nothing less than tragic to see that culture in danger of replacement by that of a group of self-pitying bullies into whose language fewer books have been translated in its entire history than were into Spanish this year. I hope you Brits can, as a group, buck up and show the spirit you showed during WWII and repel the invader!

[–] peter-501 15 years ago

Not all our vets have it so easy. I have a friend who was in the First Gulf War and he had a reaction to the pills to help protect him from nerve gas. He is in his late 40s and must use a wheelchair now to get around. He had to fight every step of the way to get support from the government.

The U.S. will give nearly a billion dollars to rebuild Gaza - of course those extremists on both sides will eventually blow it up again - but we penny pinch when it comes to our injured and disabled vets.

[–] Tim851 15 years ago

If you'd exchange the word "UK" with the word "German Empire", your two postings, especially the second one with the "silent, moral majority of white indigenous workers", sounds like you copy & pasted it from "Mein Kampf". And I'm not even exaggerating.

It's curious how a lot (though surely not all) of the "I'm just a patriot"-crowd are racist militarists. There seems to be some sort of correlation...

[–] lisaen 14 years ago

You are exactly right, ptb-2, and that is exactly what was going through my mind as I was reading the original post. My first husband was a decorated Marine who served two tours in Vietnam--he was at Khe Sonh during Tet in '68, and came back alive. We were married for quite a few years before he was able to tell me about some of his experiences in-country, but the hardest for me to hear was the story of his arriving at San Francisco Int'l Airport at the end of his second tour, when anti-Vietnam sentiments here were at a fever pitch. He was in uniform, of course, and what he told me he experienced was shameful and cruel. I was just in grade school around that time--he was 15 years older than I--so I don't have much recollection of the war, but my father, who served in the Army in the South Pacific in WW II and retired as a COL in 1974, was glued to the CBS Evening News every night as soon as he got home from work. Hopefully, the American public has figured out how to separate contempt for the civilian idiots who get us into these conflicts from respect for the uniformed men and women who are actually sent into harm's way on the orders of those idiots. This is one more reason I'm happy that I live in the U.S. and why, even with all of its faults and problems, I would never live anywhere else.

"If you can't say anything nice, come sit by me!"

[–] panfan7 15 years ago

As an American, I too am proud of my country so I thank you for your observations. I fear that if some have their way we will become like the U.K. in this respect.

[–] TenPart 15 years ago

joestone99uk

I too am a proud Englishman. I love my country well LOVED my country. It's sickening to see her being raped by liberals with "human rights, pro global warming" nut jobs at the helm.
I recall in the news recently that our brave men and woman returning to what should be a proud country, but instead, greeted by Muslims protesting them and shouting horrible thing. Too think that they are free to do that too that is do unacceptable!
I envy the American's be being able to be so patriotic so freely with no worries of a self-righteous jerk telling you to remove your flag because it might upset some, some ass that shouldn't be in this country anyway!
Argh! It really angers me but this isn't the place to chat about that!
On a lighter note to a poster saying something about seeing a serving man in a restaurant, when I was heading to see the girlfriend at the times family in SC. I saw a few serving recruits still in their fatigues. I felt so compelled to thank them. When I did they were so great full and we chatted till they had to get their plane.

In short I love America. Someday I will live there and be as proud to live there and I was once here.

[–] QinetiQ 15 years ago

Ok, I am all up for patriotism and being proud on a country etc, I am sure most people are. But I dont see why I should thank a soldier whenever I see one. I'm from Holland, but basicly that doesnt matter. Dutch troops are fighting in Afghanistan aside of Uk and US troops. So why should I thank a soldier when I pass one? Here it's all volunteerly, as in, there's no law saying you have to serve (sure they get paid). Second, they get send whereever the government wants them to go.
I dont support the Bushwars , nor do I fail to see how it is 'defending your country'. I have nothing against US, or any country really, the Dutch government simply had it's head up..well, you know.
Now, if there was a war, like WW2 and the like THEN I see the use and need to thank any soldier fighting, simply because then I have something to thank them for in stead of having them throw away their live for politics. Maybe it's my idea that when I thank someone I actually need something real to thank them for (Like where I live we still honor the Canadians who liberated our town).
I fail to see why I should honor someone in a military uniform like the people in this movie do (and in real life do). I dont see them honor a nurse who is doing just as much (or sometimes even more) remarkable work and thanking her for her efforts.

As for the government not honoring their casualties enough, thats a real shame. Afterall, it's always there fault if a soldier dies since they made the decisions. If it goes in US as portraited in this movie, then hats off for that.

Just my thoughts.

[–] TenPart 15 years ago

"I don't see them honour a nurse" a nurse doesn't protect your freedom, nor does h/she die in the line of duty. If people didn't sign up to the army we'd have no defence. So your answer to why do people thank them.. is... Its a thankless job were your putting your life on the line to protect peoples freedom and give them a safe place to live.

While you get the liberal fags that are all peace and love shovelling hate speech towards the very people that give them the choice to protest.

[–] QinetiQ 15 years ago

I get your point, but they get paid well (at least here they are) and they signed up, no one forced them (again, thats how it is here). Once again, I understand the part of "protect people's freedom" and such, and then I agree 100%, but they are just puppets for the goverment, fighting in battles that have little to no defensive use. One can say "that's not the soldiers fault" and surely it's not, but it doesnt mean I have to thank him? To me it is just a job with risks. Now dont think I dispise them or so, not at all, I cringe at the thought of what happened to the Vietnam vet's for example, who were insulted by many ani-war hippie's. No one can blame a soldier for such a thing. It's all different if they are called in for duty (or how you say it), then they are forced to go in battle. But as it is here, they sign up volunteerly and get paid well, it's just a job they chose.

I liked the movie though heh.. :)

[–] sz72 15 years ago

Mr or Ms joestone99uk

There are many UK servicemen and women who are NOT "white indigenous". Please don't insult them with your kind of "patriotism". Thank you.

[–] MysteryReaderReturns 15 years ago

What he said was true though & if those non-White Brits were patriots, perhaps they wouldn't care that he took a little pride in himself & his nation as well.

http://dearsuicide.blogspot.com/ Where DEATH is still celebrated

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] Son_of_Elvis 15 years ago

The OP has somewhat exaggerated the abuse that some of our wounded troops received in a public hospital here. The Daily Mail reported 1 or 2 incidents some years ago in a hospital in Birmingham where Muslims that call themselves British had spat at wounded troops, but the abuse is not widespread. As for the posters asking why we don't honour our other 'services', about 15 years ago I managed a cab company in Coventry, and although it certainly wasn't a company rule, I can't think of a single taxi driver out of 170 that ever charged a nurse or doctor to take them to work (I only found out when a nurse rang us to thank us for our little 'tribute' one Christmas).

As for what the US military provide for their troops in death, we cannot match that simply because our Government have ruined our economy and cut back defence spending to the point that our troops go into battle with sub-standard equipment, but if you want to see how the REAL British people feel about their troops, I will provide a link to counter the distorted view the OP gave you.

://video.google.co.uk/videosearch?hl=en&ned=uk&tab=nv&q=wootton bassett#

The people of Wootton Bassett do this for every KIA trooper that comes through, which is all of them on the UK side. I have no doubt that if it was any other English/British village, the reaction would be the same. I would partially agree with the overly-nationalistic OP though, if the KIA had to come through Bradford or Leicester for instance, the attitude would be VERY different.

Leave the gun. Take the cannoli

[–] oldsalt61 15 years ago

QinetiQ I'm hope you are appreciative of the freedoms you enjoy because your military is willing to protect them for you. Yes, people from other professions do important work that should be appreciated; but it usually isn't performed while away from home and family for extended periods of time and while getting shot at! I'll keep thanking the prior service and active duty folks when I cross paths with them. In my opinion they've earned it!

[–] QinetiQ 14 years ago

You see, I just dont see it that simple.
Sure I appreciate my freedom and like I said in my previous posts, I still go out and honor the soldiers of WW2 who liberated my country. And well, thats exactly my point. My country is not being liberated from anything, no one is planning to invade it and the ONLY thing that is of a threat is where the politicians are sending them now, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. I know a lot of soldiers here and they had a quiet, routine life and suddenly when they get called for duty to Afghanistan, they start protesting. I mean, wtf, why did you join the army? You know when you sign up that theres a risk you get send to a war somewhere. So no, I dont thank them, it's a risky job for sure, but there are a lot of risky jobs.

[–] Devil_Doc1988 14 years ago

That attitude about not giving a *beep* because they volunteered and nothing's happening at the moment is what got you guys invaded in 1940..its call Always Ready..

[–] thoth-ibis-1 15 years ago

The UK should be proud of their military. Those who spit on the military there should read up on the second world war! The Battle of Britain produced some the greatest heroes the world has ever known. While posted in England I marched in Battle of Britain remembrance parade. The older people would stop and applaud the parade. Younger ones seemed indifferent.
History should also recall Dunkirk and Rummel's problems in North Africa with the ever formidable Montgomery. Who sank the Bismark?
It's a fact in my book, that had it not been for the British military World War II would not have ended favorably for freedom. Through-out human history the Union Jack has flown over much that is great. The English, the Scots, Welsh, Irish are all great peoples with great ideals & ideas.
While there are plenty of good Americans we have our fools as well.

[–] Son_of_Elvis 15 years ago

Yes Thoth, no Hollywood movie could ever really capture the spirit of men like Sir Douglas Bader and Johnson Beharry, or anyone that has ever won the VC for example. In fact, I would remortgage my house to bet that most Americans wouldn't know their names. If anyone who reads this does not know their names, you should look them up if you want a real history lesson (especially Bader).

My mother cared for the widow of Rear Admiral Basil Place VC, CB, CVO, DSC, who was a truly great man and accomplished things the rest of us could only dream of, including being awarded the Victoria Cross at the age of 22 (if you don't know that the VC is, it's the highest award for valour possible when facing the enemy, and the chances are if you are awarded one, you don't live to receive it yourself). I have visited his home and it is a humbling experience, just to see how brave one man could be on so many occasions. You could serve in the armed forces for a thousand years and never hope to achieve anything near what people like Admiral Place and his equals have done, never mind the people like myself who have never served.

Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.

[–] dlbkr2 14 years ago

Other things that are hinted on this movie is that it is not only KIA or Injured service members that have a treatment such as this. Flying on passenger planes in the US, many pilots will allow service members to deplane at their destination before other passengers as a show of respect for returning service members. This is usually notified when the plane is taxing to the jetway after landing and the service members is recognized over the intercom.

Many service members are also allowed to pre-board on civilian flights when returning from service. Organizations such as the USO usually have rooms in the major airports to provide a bed/shower/changing area for service members that are traveling to new duty stations so they can change into or out of uniforms, or can get a free night's sleep without having to pay money for a hotel room during a layover.

And even though we periodically display our flags on our property, or put ribbons on our trees in the front yard, respect for service members has become a place where the public has bit their tongue with opposing opinions. I would expect it is because of our all volunteer military, but incidences of people expressing hatred towards the military in public is few and far between.

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] hobihors 14 years ago

It seems to me that the OP is talking about visible representations of support rather than support itself, and further, he is mistaking the lack of the former for the lack of latter.

It also seems to me that he/she is missing a movie made about soldiers, similar to "taking Chance", much more than actually thinking through about all the other ways a society honors its' soldiers, and without questioning if superficial and subjective appearances really do represent reality.

Maybe you just do not know ways in which soldiers are helped and respected, and its just easier for you to fuel your own fire of anger. How is that honoring the soldiers anyway?

[–] dagaul101 12 years ago

I have to say that the treatment and dignity for the returning soldiers was what made the movie special, regardless of your thoughts about the war or lack of justification for itSource:Movie Reviews - Taking Chancehttp://moviereviews.noskram.com/2009/09/movie-reviews-for-taking-chanc e

[–] 12 years ago

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