Gay bashers: explain your reasoning. - Milk (2009) Discussion

[–] hadmatter 13 years ago

An admirable question, but unfortunately there is no such thing as a straight answer to this question. If you subtract religious reasons, then the only thing left is insecurity in one's own sexuality. And they'll never admit to that.

I am the sod-off shotgun.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] IronWings2112 13 years ago

@Harper, I do not think many, if any homosexuals are asking for MORE rights than straight people, it is just like the misconception that female feminists want more rights than men. It just is not true, they just want the SAME rights.
I find it funny when some non-minorities get all worked up or upset when certain groups fight for equality...groups who have never had it.

I guess it is possible for people in the "majority" to suffer or be discriminated against...but if you look deep enough it may be based on a particular issue, not relating to their "majority" status. for example, a person can be in the majority, being straight or white, but there could still be bias against them because they are overweight, or handicapped ect....
I would argue these people would no longer simply be part of a majority, but part of a segment of the population who needs people fighting for them. Honestly if someone is a white, rich, male, who is viewed healthy...they probably do not need a movement because there is little discrimination in Western society towards them.
and just because the majority doesn't feel comfortable(oh so sad! lol) with what these activist groups want, so what?!? People weren't comfortable with a lot of past equality rights certain groups wanted, and now these rights are generally accepted. Times change, minds grow, people will get over their bigotry or prejudices.

Plus we don't live in a strict democracy in America for a reason, so there isn't mob rule. The majority is not always right, so there is activism to fight back, and sometimes the Government rightfully steps in....integration of schools, civil rights act, and so forth.
It is as if you saying "stop your bitching and whining!!!, we've given you enough!" when it isn't your right to determine that. There is still in-equality in this country based on race, sex, sexuality, and so on, don't pretend there isn't. A lot of good work has been done, but we aren't there yet...not to mention the groups trying to push back against the social progress.
and when I say in-equality, it is based on access and opportunity to certain things, so equality would be equal opportunity and access.

I honestly can't see how people can argue this is such a free and liberated country when not everyone has the same rights, nor is it such a free country when people would give up freedom for drummed up fear based on the whim of knee-jerk politicians.

to quote from the German power metal band Gamma Ray....
"We never will be free until the sun is shining for us all!!!"

btw, I am straight, white, male, and I am proud to be an activist for everyone's rights.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] Writerchick10 13 years ago

How can you say things like that, and then look yourself in the mirror and not feel ashamed?? I used to get much, much angrier about comments such as yours when I was younger but now I simply feel badly for you and your pathetic opinions and viewpoint. If you can watch Milk, in it's entirety and with an open-mind (and after reading your post, I'm not even sure you're capable of that), and not see how tremendous a human being he was than I feel even more sympathy for you, because you're missing out on the opportunity to put your admiration and respect in an incredibly deserving man. All that, and I haven't even mentioned how MASSIVE an impact Harvey Milk had on gay rights. As the first openly gay man elected to public office in California. How can you possibly not see how significant that was for the LGBT community? Are you really that incapable of comprehending, even if you don't agree with their lifestyle, the incredibly magnitude of that accomplishment? It was just as significant as the first African American or woman elected to public office.

Watch the entire film, I beg of you. Milk wasn't just campaigning and working for gay rights, he was doing so for human rights. What about that film at all portrayed Milk as a "petty politician of no consequence"? You're either watching a completely different movie or you've just got your eyes tightly clamped shut and your fingers stuck in your ears. How was he petty? As for his "only significance" being that he was homosexual and that he was shot, well that's simply ludicrous. Milk would have been just as vital to the advancement of gay rights had he not been killed. Not to mention that Sean Penn is absolutely brilliant in the role.

Who gets to decide who and what is normal? You? Stop putting yourself on such a pedestal, you're not God. You don't determine who is and is not living outside the boundaries of the natural order. No single person has that right.I personally can't have children (due to an illness that forced me to have a hysterectomy at age 21), so does that mean I'm not normal? Being gay is no more a voluntary decision than contracting some form of cancer. You have no right to speak for people, and I'd like to know where you came up with the "fact" that most people sense or believe homosexuality is not right. I didn't realize that you took a door-to-door poll across America before making such a powerful and utterly ridiculous statement? Also, your "facts" about the rate of suicides amongst gay individuals is complete and utter crap. Nearly all of those instances of suicide took place because of the hateful prejudice and bigotry that those tragic individuals are forced to endure on a daily bases. It's not different than a teenager committing suicide because they were continuously bullied. It's a permanant means of escape. If you were to do some research on the amount of homosexuals who committed or attempted to commit suicide, you would undoubtedly find that only very small percentage do so because they are ashamed of their lifestyle, and wish they could "cure" themselves. 99% of your post was total conjecture, and inaccurate as well. The definition of marriage as being solely between a man and a woman is totally antiquated, and ultimately must be updated. Just as the laws that dared to subjugate blacks or women, declaring them an inferior race or gender, eventually had to be altered.

I'm not even going to bother arguing against your homosexual marriage=incestual marriage statement because it's rubbish that's not worth even a second of my time.

I doubt my rant is going to change your mind even in the slightest (bigots such as you have often spent a great deal of time convincing themselves that their delusions are accurate), but I had to say it anyway. Just on the off-chance that some young, impressionable youth comes to this board looking for support and encounters your post, full of so much prejudice and hate. I can only hope that they take a moment to read my post as well. They're not abnormal or suffering from any sort of affliction, and that was one important message of gay rights that Harvey Milk fought tirelessly to promote.

http://fictionisparadise.blogspot.com/

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[–] stefanheikel 13 years ago

ikillen

Apparently experts in the field of psychology universally disagree with you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYMjXucTFaM

And you are a liar when you say your views on homosexuality are not religiously based. Anyone who sees your posting history can clearly see you are an evangelical idiot.

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[–] lkillen 13 years ago

You point me to a pro-gay homosexual propaganda video as proof?!
Good night Irene.

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[–] lkillen 13 years ago

"And you are a liar when you say your views on homosexuality are not religiously based. Anyone who sees your posting history can clearly see you are an evangelical idiot."

I just love to see manliness behind a keyboard. Note how I have not called anyone names or attacked anyone's character. So what, pray tell, is in my posting history that says I am an "evangelical idiot"? I doubt I have a dozen posts on IMDB. But when you can't argue the facts, you attack the character.

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[–] hadmatter 13 years ago

The very fact that you describe homosexuality as "anathema" is plenty of proof of where your convictions lie. The word itself is religious. Your hatred is religious. Your point of view, frankly, is an embarrassment to the human race.

Note how I have not called anyone names or attacked anyone's character.

Oh, you most certainly have. Just because you don't believe that homosexuals are human beings or that they deserve your respect does not give you license to make the claims you have made and then claim you weren't attacking. Everything you said is an attack.

But when you can't argue the facts, you attack the character.

You certainly do.

Maybe you should get some facts next.

I am the sod-off shotgun.

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[–] Louisville88 13 years ago

I do not bash gays...but I will not listen to people stand on soap boxes and make speeches like, "Equality for all." And then deny "rights" to another group that does not have political correctness on their side. "Born that way" doctrine...as in, "I was born like this and can't do anything about it so accept me." Is greatly flawed. First off, there is not ANY hard evidence linking homosexuality to some sort of birth issue and that's it. It's not a nature v.s. nurture it's a nature and nurture. If you were to get just a hundred gay men, or even just ten, they would all have a different story. Having met and interviewed hundreds, there is not a "one way" answer. Now back to my point, to say that they are born this way and should be allowed to do whatever is pure prejuidice and hypercritical to the other groups of people who can claim just the same. Should LGBT people be treated like humans? Yes, for that is what they are. But should they get special treatment because political correctness is on their side while others stay in their "closets" or control/handle their issues? No.

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[–] rrb 13 years ago

What "special treatment" are you talking about? The special treatment that prevents us from marrying, like any other citizen? The special treatment that, until a few weeks ago, prevented us from serving our country in the military? The special treatment that's gotten us beaten, killed and fired from jobs for no other reason than b/c we're gay?

You claim you don't bash gays, but you come to this board and do exactly that with your post, claiming we manipulatively seek some unnamed "special treatment." Your incoherent ravings about the origins of sexuality (to say nothing of laughably rank misusage like "hypercritical") show you to be none too bright. "If you were to get just...ten [gay men], they would all have a different story"--about what? How they came to be gay? Do you know how you came to be straight? What's your point here?

"But should they get special treatment because political correctness is on their side while others stay in their "closets" or control/handle their issues?" More incoherence, more "special treatment" accusations. Again, what are you trying to say here? That gays who are stay in the closet, or as you say, "control/handle their issues," (how is leading a double life in the closet "controling/handling" their sexuality?) are better than those who are out?

If Lousville88's comments are representative of the right's arguments against gay rights, our movement is in very good shape.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] hadmatter 12 years ago

marriage?

He never used the word marriage.

lol, you are one dishonest queer,i can tell

Awesome. You must be super smart. How about you show how he was dishonest?

By the way, jackass, you've been reported for hate speech.

I am the sod-off shotgun.

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] SimplemindedSociety 10 years ago

'What "special treatment" are you talking about? The special treatment that prevents us from marrying, like any other citizen? The special treatment that, until a few weeks ago, prevented us from serving our country in the military? The special treatment that's gotten us beaten, killed and fired from jobs for no other reason than b/c we're gay?'
--------------------
You're not listening because you don't wish to and regardless of the reasoning, it will be dismissed. Being beaten, fired, serving in the military, this and that, is not comparable to the argument for the right to marry.

The word "equal" is only a word, and yet a word that is being relied on to satisfy a request that is not a parallel to marriage. We could assign the word "equal right" to anything we want, then.. Where does the "equal rights" start and end?

Then when 'equality' does not convince, we throw in the word "discimination". You are assuming that denying marriage rights to homosexuals is demeaning to them as people. That is not true. It's not a matter of superior/inferior-- but different.

It'a also not about consenting adults; consenting adults are not allowed to do anything unless it's lawful. This idea of "how does it affect your life" is selfish in it's own way. Not everything we enforce or believe in directly affects every person's life at that moment. And it's not about who makes the better parent; that does not change the institution of marriage either

And would it blow you mind if some homosexuals are against gay marriage?
Or would you claim they are closeted, ashamed,etc? That would also be a generalization.

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[–] jaroslaw99 7 years ago

Simpleminded society - Obviously I wish I had seen your post before marriage equality became the law of the land but since I didn't, I want to address what you did write. You say "adults can only do what is lawful." The problem with your statement is the state (meaning government) is only supposed to limit freedom for very good reasons. I think children should be in bed by 8:30 pm up to high school age, and it is an excellent idea, but I can't make a law like that. Plenty of children stay up later and seem to be okay. SCOTUS finally decided that same sex attracted people are citizens worthy of equal protection of the laws and there is no reason (religion notwithstanding) to deny marriage.

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[–] stefanheikel 13 years ago

"And then deny "rights" to another group that does not have political correctness on their side."

What "rights" are being deied to whom? Do you mean the religious right now looking more and more outdated since homosexuality is much more mainstream now? It's called the first amendment. They can say/believe anything they want but they have NO right to force their beliefs onto me via legislation.

"First off, there is not ANY hard evidence linking homosexuality to some sort of birth issue and that's it. It's not a nature v.s. nurture it's a nature and nurture."

There is strong evidence linking genetics to homosexuality though. Regardless, homosexuality is not a choice and cannot be changed, as cited by dozens of professional, credible organizations (religiously based organizations need not apply).

"Having met and interviewed hundreds, there is not a "one way" answer."

Please elaborate on this.

"to say that they are born this way and should be allowed to do whatever is pure prejuidice and hypercritical to the other groups of people who can claim just the same."

Are you talking about alcoholics, pedophiles, etc? That's not a valid comparison because those conditions are harmful to the person/other people. Homosexuality is about love between two consenting adults. Also, please do not mention anything about AIDS or anal sex because such issues are outdated (AIDS is still an issue in our community, but it is prevelant in other communities too).

"But should they get special treatment because political correctness is on their side while others stay in their "closets" or control/handle their issues? No."

As rrb said, what "special treatment"? This is a common claim from anti-gay persons and frankly it's getting tiresome. The only things we want are to have our relationships held up to the same level of legal protection/respect as straight relationships, discrimination protections in employment, housing, accomedation, etc., and anti-bullying protections/programs for schools (GLBT youth are four times more likely to commit suicide then straight youth). We already have national hate crimes laws and open military service so we have made much progress. As far as acceptance, that will come in time. Just look at Generation Y (those under 30), and it's not hard to see that the future is on our side.

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[–] Emmywins305 10 years ago

Louisville 88,

You ARE bashing gays. Gays DO NOT get special treatment. In fact, they still have less rights than straight people! Marriage rights, hospital visits, inheritance...these are just some of the issues straight people don't have to worry about. If you think gays get special treatment, then I dare you to change lives with an openly gay man in the BIBLE BELT for ONE YEAR and see the "so-called" special treatment you get. I doubt you'd even last for one month.

By the way, the word is hypocritical not hypercritical. Learn to type correctly if you're gonna post.

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[–] sutava-1 8 years ago

"I will not listen to people stand on soap boxes and make speeches like, "Equality for all." And then deny "rights" to another group that does not have political correctness on their side. "

Spot on!!! Gays are the biggest hate filled bigots of all when it comes to "tolerating" other peoples opinions about their sexuality.

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[–] Sweetest99 8 years ago

No. Sex, race and sexual orientation are inseparable from any human being's essence and existence. To have a negative opinion of another's sex, race or sexual orientation regardless of that opinion's basis is to hate that person's essence. That is what makes us who we are. To have a negative opinion of how one expresses love for another is in the last rung on the bigotry ladder right alongside hating someone for their sex or their race. You cannot get around this in looking for an excuse for your bigotry.

Tha Hot Girlz -- THE99 And 4 Eva!

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[–] lkillen 13 years ago

I am not deciding what is normal. A few million years of evolution got the jump on me.

Is it any shocker to you that the anal tract is use to eject from the body what it does not want? Is it a shock to you that the attractive force of sex is to result in procreation? Why is it so hard to understand what we are? Normal heterosexuals do not have to do gymnastics to explain what they are. Homosexuals do. Does not that tell you anything?

Look, my point is NOT that these people are evil. They are not. But are they living as human qua human? No! I am missing an index finger on one hand that was cut off in a motorcycle chain. Is that hand normal? Hell no. Should my hand be granted special rights? I don't think so. Should I demand that others regard my hand as "normal" so as not to make me feel insecure (I cut it off when I was only 15 yo while racing motocross)!!? They didn't and I learnt to get over it and move on.

SSA is not normal. It is an anathema to our biology as my missing finger is to a normal hand. When people live outside their biological make-up, it is an early indication that they require therapy. If a man went to a psychiatrist and told the doctor that he was a horse and left with a prescription for a saddle, would not the doctor be guilty of mal-practice? When the body, which is reasonably immutable, disagrees with the mind which should never be immutable, would not it be that the mind should follow the body?

But how many support the silliness of a transgendered(sic) to have surgery and be drowned in carcegenic hormones when every cell in that person’s body knows it's sex. Or maybe we should just saddle him up. (or ride ‘em bare back – yahoo!!)

Look people - wake up. All of this is mental illness. Anyone that validates you is simply selling you horse manure(and a saddle). Men are hardwired to love women and vice versa. Anything else is damaged goods but not repairable. That is the beauty of the human mind. Unless severely damaged, it is extremely fixable.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] Emmywins305 10 years ago

Is it any shocker to you that the anal tract is use to eject from the body what it does not want?

What's your point? If you're implying that only gays engage in anal sex, you're seriously misinformed. A lot of gays don't like it and don't even do it. Plus survey says that 1/3 of college women have tried it and 2/3 of married women have tried it. The majority of straight men I know have said they like it and want to do it as long as it's with a woman. You're argument has failed.

But how many support the silliness of a transgendered(sic) to have surgery and be drowned in carcegenic hormones when every cell in that person’s body knows it's sex.

If you would watch videos on YouTube about transgendered children and teens, you would find that most of them don't feel at home in the gender they were born with and even want to commit suicide because of it. Is it worth keeping them in that miserable and even suicidal state just so YOU can sleep at night? I've never heard of anything so stupid.

Look people - wake up. All of this is mental illness.

The only mental illness I can see is when people obsess about what others do in their bedrooms that has nothing to do with YOU. For someone who's so against homosexuality, you sure spend alot of time on the board of a gay movie. If you hate it so much, don't you have better things to do? I hate The Passion of the Christ, but I don't spend much time on those boards because I feel it's not even worth my time. Maybe you have some personal issues that you haven't come to terms with yet and you mask them by attacking homosexuality.

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[–] Emmywins305 10 years ago

Men are hardwired to love women and vice versa.

And I suppose left-handed people are meant to write with their right hand just because most people are right-handed? If you saw The King's Speech, the king stuttered and went to see a speech therapist. The therapist noticed that he was writing uncomforably with his right hand and asked him if he was really left-handed. The king said that as a child, he was punished for writing with his left hand and was forced to write with his right. The therapist responded that that was very common amongst stutterers-many were really lefties who were forced to become righties. It's analagous to homosexuality. You can force gays to change their behavior, but on the inside they'll be miserable and uncomfortable and it could damage them in unimaginable ways. Think about it. How would YOU like it if others tried to change something about you that you couldn't help but did no harm to others. Just because you're in the majority doesn't mean your superior to a minority group.

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[–] yorktom58 13 years ago

96% of giraffe sex is homosexual, and that's a fact. Just thought you should know.

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[–] lkillen 13 years ago

First - that is homosexual propaganda.
But do you really want to defend your position from the animal kingdom?

Dogs sniff and eat other dogs poop. Dogs sniff each others buttholes. Cats eat their after-birth, including any stillborns.

Great company you keep.

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[–] citromle 13 years ago

...as a result of evolution. Which was the main thing you used to support your views. But anyway, does this mean you don't believe in contraception either? If procreation is the point of sex...

I know you won't, but maybe if you actually read a bit more about (human) evolution and (human) sexuality you'd see things are never that black and white.

If you're troll, this still wasn't a waste of time for me as I have an english language exam in about an hour so at least I can count this as practice!

-----
I am confused. Why does Ross, the largest 'Friend' not simply eat the others?

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] appalonia 12 years ago

i believe yorktom58 was making the point that homosexuality does exist in the animal kingdom. could you explain that? oh i know...maybe the animals choose to be gay...just like you said. *LOL*

and as for that anal tract remark...hello straight people practice anal sex too so don't even try to push that off that it's just a homosexual thing

you've totally missed the point every single time...as a straight person you are allowed to marry the person you love...you don't have to worry about being fired because of your sexuality but lgbt people do face that issue...doesn't matter if they have been with their partners for 30 years or more....if the one partner dies...they can't get the pension of the other one. they aren't protected and that is wrong. they would be legally married if they could. when i was young my grandparents...yes who were straight but advocates for equality always told me that marriage was for 2 people that loved eachother....that was it. they never specified gender and i grew up believing that. i still do. i see nothing wrong with defining marriage as "2 people who love eachother making a lifelong commitment to one another."

to make a long story short...i think you should have to walk a mile in another person's shoes...then you'll know how it truly feels. society can be cruel to people who are different...simply because they are afraid but you know what...there is nothing wrong with being different...different is neither good nor bad...it's just different and i for one enjoy being different.

you laugh because i'm different....i laugh because you're all the same...

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] henrik-ness 13 years ago

Why is everyone obsessed by them not being able to procreate? It is not like the human race is facing extinction.

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[–] outsiderp 13 years ago

this just smart and straight to the point..i couldn't agree more

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[–] electusunus1221 12 years ago

So Courageous and October Baby are filled with their "propaganda" but this isn't?

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[–] stefanheikel 12 years ago

"So Courageous and October Baby are filled with their "propaganda" but this isn't?"

Yes. Milk is a historical biography of Harvey Milk. He is not portrayed as a saint by any means. The movies you mention clearly have strong Christian biases.

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] sohamorrohit-125-260623 12 years ago

"The fact that sexual intercourse is so pleasurable is the bait nature provides us to insure the species continues. If sex were actually a chore like washing your car, life would have failed after the first generation."

So by that logic, if guy sex was indeed not pleasurable, then homosexuals would've stopped it themselves, wouldn't they?

"As far as “Rights”, homosexuals enjoy the same rights under the law as everyone else. And that is their complaint. They want special rights for their group. I can marry someone of opposite sex and they can marry someone of opposite sex."

Yes but can't you see that this "right" is biased towards straight individuals? That's like saying: I can avail schooling and poor people can avail basic schooling as well. But you're poor so obviously you can't pay for school. But that's just your problem. Not ours since we are ready to sell it to you. Just not at a cost that everybody can afford.

"Homosexuality most commonly stems from an anxiety disorder. For various reasons, the homosexual failed to bond with the same sex parent at an early age and this craving translated into sexual attraction at puberty."

You're quoting Freud's psycho-sexual theory and afaik this part was never proved even though Freud himself suspected it.

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[–] samuri5 12 years ago

I'm a latecomer to this thread, but after reading this:

The story of a person whose only significance was that he was a petty politician of no consequence that was homosexual and shot.

Wow. Can there be a greater example of one who misses the point? Lots of Grandiose language, but it can't hide the fact that this poster just doesn't "get it."

Open the pod bay doors, Hal.

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] manfromearth 11 years ago

sorry i can't agree with you, but you do have some sensible points out there. Appreciated.
But times have changed and we live in a very different world now. Disease or natural orientation, homsexuality has become an acceptable part of our society and we at least need to accept and tolerate it, if not promote.

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[–] jstang411 11 years ago

"Disease or natural orientation"...and what does it matter anyhow? Who am I to tell others what to do in their private life so long as they aren't harming others?

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[–] lexp2005 12 years ago

IronWings2112 it is ETC "Etcetera,etcetera" and NOT ect which stands for "Electro Convulsive Therapy"

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[–] hadmatter 13 years ago

Anybody who shouts too loud about being discriminated against gets on my nerves, and some homosexuals come into that category.

That is true. It is also irrelevant. People who are discriminated against have the RIGHT to complain about it. In fact, EVERYONE does! That's why Christians (who are firmly in the majority) have the RIGHT to constantly complain about how gay people are infringing on their religious freedom. It's a complete LIE of course, but they have the RIGHT to complain about it anyway.

Some wont stop shouting until they have MORE rights than straight people

Really. Please give one example of when this has ever happened.

And all that goes to show how ignorant some of them are, because plenty of people in the "majority" also suffer in many ways, but don't have anybody willing to stand up for them because there isn't any movement they can attach themselves to.

Right. But in order to write this sentence, you have had to change the topic from "discrimination" to "suffering". EVERYBODY suffers. Nothing in our constitution promises that life will be easy. However, we as citizens are SUPPOSED to be able expect EQUALITY. The "majority" or the 'group in power' may suffer, but not from discrimination.

But if people continually antagonize others by demanding more and more because of their skewered view of fairness, then they deserve to be get some stick.

So, at what point in the process of fighting for equal rights do you think the homos deserve to get "the stick"? Is marriage equality a bashable offense to you? Are adoption rights bashable? Inheritance rights?

Sometimes you have to accept also that the majority aren't all that comfortable with the type of things certain minorities want to do.

Yeah, but so what? You don't get to withhold legal rights because you object to my sexual practices. They are none of your damn business.

I am the sod-off shotgun.

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[–] Wesyeed 13 years ago

I suppose gays are a genetic abnormality similar to hermaphrodites and have an affinity for their own gender etc. For that reason, I have no "hatred" towards them, except in the sense that they like many minority groups abuse their status and play the victim too often, furthermore there's a lot of over exposure to the gay rights movement as if it's such a hugely important subject as world wide poverty, serious disasters etc. It simply isn't. I agree that some people feel the need to make a mountain out of a mole hill, pardon the cliche.

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] chatanuga 13 years ago

"Again, why is it that people like you, who love to blame victims for their negative attitude toward being victimized, always refuse to elaborate on your accusations? Please give an example of how us gays "abuse our status". How often should we be allowed to complain about being victimized? Is it okay to complain when we are attacked in the streets and beaten by gangs of ass holes who claim to be Christian? Is it okay to complain when the state seized our home and property when our partner of forty years passes away, because the state refuses to recognize the validity of our partnership? When do you think it would be all right to complain about systematized abuse that leads gay teenagers to have among the highest suicide rates in the world?"

Don't forget about discrimination in the workplace. At my last job, a coworker who later became my manager assumed I was gay began sexually harassing me, and nothing was ever done about it. At the job before that, a coworker found my Yahoo profile, felt threatened that I was gay, and sent my profile to the president of the company along with false claims that I'd come onto him. I was written up for sexual harassment, even though I'd done nothing wrong, and later fired on false claims of poor job performance.

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[–] WileyDairyGnome 13 years ago

I'm sorry...but if you are suffering ALONE, and you are isolated and you feel ignored, what do you expect us to do? Throw you a parade? I have been there before, it's called depression. I'm guessing you have no clue what it's like to be discriminated against because of who you are (maybe you do, I'm just making an assumption). I don't know ONE gay person who believes that they deserve any more than a straight person. First of all, there are too many countries that make gays face a penalty simply for, well, being gay. If they engage in any sexual content with someone of the same sex, they could possibly face the death penalty (or be stoned to death by some angry civilians). This happens in places like Jamaica and too many African countries. Is it unfair that I find this sick and wrong? Women are raped in South Africa (and various other countries) for being lesbians, because their families believe that the rape will "cure" them. So tell me, what do you want us to do about the fact that you feel alone and isolated? Maybe you weren't referring to yourself, but I can only assume. Most gay people who are in their 50s and 60s now once felt completely alone because no one was doing sh*t for them. They felt alone and confused. If no one did a damn thing about that, if not one person fought for equal rights for gays, or blacks, or jews where the hell would we be now? I feel like you're talking out of your a*s. Can you state some of the rights that gay people want, that would provide them with more rights than we straight people have? I've never even heard of such rights.

Gays haven't always had a movement to attach themselves to. I don't know anyone in the majority who is suffering, and who has absolutely NO WHERE to turn. There are support groups for just about everything these days. Yes, I have felt completely alone. I suffer from depression and I've had thoughts of suicide. Boo hoo. I'm allowed to get married if I choose to, I can walk down the street holding a man's hand and not have to worry about someone giving me a dirty look, and my family accepts me for who I am. I'm not gay, and I respect the fact that some people are, and that those people deserve to have the same rights that we do.

-- I am a traveler of both time and space, to be where I have been

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[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] beccae10 13 years ago

hadmatter, I frieken LOVE you! Awesome way to totally nail that question.

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[–] DonnerParty808 13 years ago

People often bash on gay bashers but their are also homosexual bashers who bash on straight men for being straight. It's just like that for everything.

Check out my videos! http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=FilmMiracle

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[–] stefanheikel 13 years ago

"People often bash on gay bashers but their are also homosexual bashers who bash on straight men for being straight. It's just like that for everything."

I don't see any gay people trying to deny straight people any of their rights though.

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[–] hadmatter 13 years ago

People often bash on gay bashers but their are also homosexual bashers who bash on straight men for being straight. It's just like that for everything.

Really. And just where did you see these gay guys assaulting straight guys for their heterosexuality?

I am the sod-off shotgun.

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[–] appalonia 12 years ago

hadmatter...what? you haven't seen the many reports on the news and in the papers of gays beating up straight people...where do you live? i mean those stories are all over...i hear one at least once a week. *LOL* sorry i couldn't even type that with a straight face...i totally know what you mean...i really do. for me i've been going through these posts reading...and i swear it makes me want to bang my head against a wall wondering where oh where is this close minded view coming from? why they keep saying "special rights"...when it's never been about 'special rights' but EQUAL RIGHTS. i swear they totally miss the point like every single time.

just wanted to say...i've read quite a few of your posts and i think you rock..i think you're a cool person...keep up the great work. :)

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[–] Ameriel 13 years ago

I guess the religious reasons are the key here. And if not pure religious reasons, then at least so-called moral reasons. I'm also very curious to hear a good argument against homosexuality, but it's impossible: there is no such argument.

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[–] Straight_Pride 13 years ago

It's different, a minority, weird and a genetic dead end.

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[–] hadmatter 13 years ago

It's different

It's different! Bash it!

a minority

So are males.

weird

It's weird! Bash it!

and a genetic dead end.

Something tells me you are, too.

I am the sod-off shotgun.

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[–] stefanheikel 13 years ago

By a genetic dead end I assume you mean the BS argument that gays can't reproduce. Ever hear of sperm donors and surrogate mothers? Just recently the overy of 2 lab mice was spliced to create an offspring. Eventually we will be able to do the same things with humans I'm sure.

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[–] lkillen 13 years ago

And I saw a penice grafted on the back of a rat. Was that you?

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[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] joseph-wyatt-677-63838 13 years ago

Dude, probably a little late, but heads up: IMDB users have no nose for subtlety and you're about to get accused of being a homophobe.

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[–] Straight_Pride 13 years ago

It's like some people WANT to argue.

I don't have anything big against gay people...I might make the odd joke here and there (Behind closed doors as not to offend anybody)...I might use the words gay/sucks/crap interchangeably...& I might think the 'Gay Equal Rights Movement' people in America look like a bunch of whiners when compared to Black people looking for equal rights decades previously in America...But that doesn't make me a homophobe.

My last post wasn't 'serious' I was giving examples of genuine grievances other people might have - I was actually trying to answer OP question instead of argue like some people.

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[–] hadmatter 13 years ago

It's like some people WANT to argue.

It's more like some people want to defend themselves against uncontextualized adjectives.

My last post wasn't 'serious' I was giving examples of genuine grievances other people might have - I was actually trying to answer OP question instead of argue like some people.

Fine. But if you don't want to be presumed to hold the opinions you're espousing, I would recommend putting them in context. If you don't mind people assuming you're a homophobe, then just keep doing what you're doing.

I am the sod-off shotgun.

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[–] rrb 13 years ago

zombiemaster91: "[Homosexuality]'s...a genetic dead end."

Really? Then why are there so many of us after all these centuries?

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[–] lkillen 13 years ago

at the loving behest of some nasty homophobe breeders that made you.

By the way, this homophobis is pure *beep* If a person does not like homosexuals, often with his/her first exposure to some sick display in a Gay Pride parade or an unwanted advance, it does not mean homophobia. Distaste and phobia are far gries apart. The entire homophobia charge is a ruse.

Let us try this again. I dislike men who desire sex with little children. (Will Greer, a proud gay advocate and pedophile) I dislike the perverts in NAMBLA. Now do I suffer Pedophobia? I dislike crooks. Do I suffer from Kletophobia? The whole phobia thing is to play the manipulation that the reason you don't like homosexuals stems from the fact that you are suppressing you own secret desires for same sex relations.

Following that logic, you must suffer from BigotPhobia for you accuse others that do not endorse your way of life as bigots and you do not like them. You are a closeted bigot. You keep a Nazi Uniform under you bed that you break out on full moon and dance around in while wearing woman's underwear. Yeah, year--that's the ticket.

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[–] hadmatter 13 years ago

Let us try this again. I dislike men who desire sex with little children. (Will Greer, a proud gay advocate and pedophile) I dislike the perverts in NAMBLA. Now do I suffer Pedophobia? I dislike crooks. Do I suffer from Kletophobia? The whole phobia thing is to play the manipulation that the reason you don't like homosexuals stems from the fact that you are suppressing you own secret desires for same sex relations.

So... you object to the term homophobia. And at first you argue that it's about fear instead of distaste, and therefore the word should not apply. But then you argue that the suffix "-phobia" apparently means "harbors a secret desire for". Maybe you should keep your BS straight.

I am the sod-off shotgun.

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[–] appalonia 12 years ago

straight pride...wow...what a sum up...hmmm let's see....i'm different...i'm considered a minority because i'm female...most probably consider me weird cause i march to the beat of my own drummer....and i am a genetic dead end because i can't have kids...yup...it's official...i fit all that criteria so what does that make me hmmm?

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[–] WileyDairyGnome 13 years ago

Don't bother asking this question...it's pointless. I stopped trying to reason with those people long ago because their responses literally make me feel like crying. It sickens me, when people are so hell bent on hating people simply because of the fact that they are gay. Of course the reasons vary and some people just don't understand. I have tried to explain it to people or to make them see it in a way that makes sense to them but I feel like there is no use. What really pisses me off is that a lot of minorities (not ALL, considering that I myself am a minority but quite a few) seem to be against it. I mean you'd think that people of color would be able to relate to the feelings of isolation and discrimination...but no. So many people believe it is a lifestyle choice. Ugh. Whatever. I am just so thankful that I was raised to be accepting of everyone regardless of their race and/or sexual orientation. As long as you aren't hurting anyone, be yourself and enjoy yourself.

-- I am a traveler of both time and space, to be where I have been

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[–] corsi71inc 13 years ago

To the OP and others of a like mind,

Stop trying to understand the bigots. There is nothing there to understand. They cannot be reasoned with, and they do not have the ability to express themselves intelligently. This is because bigotry exists outside of intelligence, logic, and wisdom. As Dr. Samuel Johnson wrote,

“Prejudice, not being founded on reason, cannot be removed by argument.”

There is nothing you can say to them and nothing they can say to you. I am not suggesting you give up on equal rights; by no means am I suggesting that. Just stop looking to the bigots for any shred of decency. They do not have it in them when it comes to their personal fears.

Remember, the louder the bigots shout, the more attention they draw to their own weaknesses.

1. Being moody.
2. Being bad at maths.
3. Being sad.

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[–] oaksjm 13 years ago

So I was friends with this kid before he came out back in middle school. He was just another normal kid that I had no problems with. After he came out he completely changed though, started acting and talking girly, it was as if his whole personality was a complete sham and he just became really bitchy. He just used my friendship for his own personal protection, assuming I was an intolerant monster incapable of understanding who he really was. So he used me, made prejudicial judgements about me, and stopped being my friend afterwards due to acceptance from the more popular bitchy girls who wanted a gay friend. and there's the problem I have. I don't care if you are gay, its just the damn narcissitic culture that comes with being gay. And enough with the pride parades people, a train of muscular dudes march a block away from my house every damn year blasting their crappy disco music, throwing condoms at little kids. I mean if I paraded a train of strippers through your neighborhood blasting my iPod playlists, begging you to tolerate me and my "culture", while I threw a dental dam in your face, it'd piss you off naturally right? I mean I agree with you that unwarranted homophobia is completely wrong, but allowing these dumb stereotypes to define your culture is not going to help you win your battle. I mean couldn't you consider the whole gay culture to be a lifestyle choice that I am allowed to loathe in peace without being considered evil and intolerant? That's all I want.

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[–] stefanheikel 13 years ago

^^^I see nothing wrong with what you said oaksjm, and I'm gay. Your former friend sounds like a fake prick, but hey, it's not because he's gay, but because he's a fake prick. He could also be confused about what it means to be gay. Some people when they come out feel like they have to abide by the stereotypes. Being a gay man is not about acting feminine (though I don't disrespect gay men who are more feminine), it's about being sexually and emotionally attracted to other men.

As far as pride events, sometimes they can be too over the top. The one my town puts on is great. Any overly flamboyant stuff is contained to the gay bars. The pride events are mainly just about raising awareness and getting people involved in issues that affect our community.

As you said, unwarrented homophobia is completely wrong, and that is the main reason for pride events. However, in the coming decades pride events will fade, given the growing acceptance for GLBTs (in liberal areas of the country, gay bars are closing up like crazy!).

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[–] rrb 13 years ago

"However, in the coming decades pride events will fade, given the growing acceptance for GLBTs (in liberal areas of the country, gay bars are closing up like crazy!)"

I'm curious where you got your data on gay bars closing in "liberal areas" "like crazy". And I don't think acceptance of gays will have a significant impact on that. Bars have always been a way for singles, gay & straight, to meet. Also, gay bars that are closing most likely are doing so for the same reason non-gay establishments are shutting their doors: b/c of a weak economy.

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[–] stefanheikel 13 years ago

It's relevant because as gay people feel accepted, they feel more comfortable going out and meeting people in non-gay bars. Behind video rental stores, gay bars are one of the quickest shrinking business in much of America.

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[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] armoreska 13 years ago

And I can never figure out how people think it's normal. Disgusting to say the least.

I like the movie though

Top 1000 voter
www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=23949572 - vote history (OVER 9000 titles)

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[–] stefanheikel 13 years ago

To everyone on this post who defends their homophobia, let me ask this question:

Did you laugh or cry when Bambi's mom died?

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[–] armoreska 13 years ago

last time I did, none of the above

it's my favorite Disney film btw

Top 1000 voter
www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=23949572 - vote history (OVER 9000 titles)

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[–] BoogieKnight 13 years ago

armoreska, are you male or female? Do you consider yourself to be in any way physically attractive?

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[–] Frisky_Kitty2025 13 years ago

If you take away the religious reasons for hating homosexuals, I think there is one major factor left over. The bigotry and hatred was taught to them.

They were raised on it. When they were children, they just believed what their mommies and daddies told them. In situations like that, it's very sad and I truly feel sorry for them. They didn't choose their parents and they had no power over what they were being told, because they were kids.

But when they turn 18 and become adults, it's so longer sad. At that point, they have to start thinking for themselves. We expect certain things from adults in our society and one of those things is to respect their fellow man. In fact, I think that's what Jesus taught.

Meow.

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[–] Shiny-NZ 13 years ago

Wow, I guess I'm naive but in this day and age I honestly didn't expect there to still be so many bigots. I shouldn't have read this whole thread... the best point is still the OPs.

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[–] neonatalpenguin 13 years ago

I’ve read a couple of books on evolutionary psychology that suggest that homophobia is hard-wired into people as a kind of survival skill. Imagine you’re part of a small bronze-age community who need an influx of newborn babies to stop your tribe from dying out. If two of your male neighbours were tupping each other instead of impregnating the womenfolk, you’re likely to get a bit pissed off, no?

I find this theory fairly convincing. It goes some way to explaining why the religious right always talk about homosexuality as an attack on “the family”. It also explains why there seems to be a correlation between the increasing acceptance of homosexuality and overpopulation/globalisation.

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[–] BoogieKnight 13 years ago

"I’ve read a couple of books on evolutionary psychology that suggest that homophobia is hard-wired into people as a kind of survival skill. Imagine you’re part of a small bronze-age community who need an influx of newborn babies to stop your tribe from dying out. If two of your male neighbours were tupping each other instead of impregnating the womenfolk, you’re likely to get a bit pissed off, no?"

I don't think that's "hard-wiring." That makes sense though in that it's the perception of those times. However, in the perception of today, I think it's exclusively to do with gender roles. If generations are raised that a man has a role to play and if he doesn't play it that way, he's just wrong. A "real" man is supposed to pursue a female mate and marry and then reproduce. A "real" man could never be perceived as submissive or gratifying to another man. All these imposed limitations are sadly comical, just caveman psychology.

"It goes some way to explaining why the religious right always talk about homosexuality as an attack on “the family”. It also explains why there seems to be a correlation between the increasing acceptance of homosexuality and overpopulation/globalisation."

You are now contradicting your first point of "impregnating the womenfolk." If people of the same sex are paired and cannot reproduce, isn't it more logical that that contributes to a decrease in population? The religious see this as an "attack on the family," again because of assumed gender roles.

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[–] neonatalpenguin 13 years ago

- “I think it's exclusively to do with gender roles. If generations are raised that a man has a role to play and if he doesn't play it that way, he's just wrong. A "real" man is supposed to pursue a female mate and marry and then reproduce. A "real" man could never be perceived as submissive or gratifying to another man.”

But where do these gender roles come from? Why would it be necessary for a society to view a man’s worth based solely on his ability “to pursue a female mate and marry and then reproduce”? To an extent, what I’m saying is a precursor to what you’re saying.

- “You are now contradicting your first point of "impregnating the womenfolk."”

Um, no I’m not.

- “If people of the same sex are paired and cannot reproduce, isn't it more logical that that contributes to a decrease in population?”

That’s exactly my point. I’m just doing some armchair theorising here, but it would seem likely that the higher the birth rate, the less need people would have to be homophobic.

- “All these imposed limitations are sadly comical, just caveman psychology.”

Which is very similar to what I said, no?

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[–] BoogieKnight 13 years ago

"But where do these gender roles come from? Why would it be necessary for a society to view a man’s worth based solely on his ability “to pursue a female mate and marry and then reproduce”? To an extent, what I’m saying is a precursor to what you’re saying."

I'm saying it's nothing but social construct, you claim it's hard-wiring. It's nothing but socialization--in the beginning it may have been about competition, which was a social construct of the time. Now gender roles mainly stem from religious values, which are of course, social constructs.

"That’s exactly my point. I’m just doing some armchair theorising here, but it would seem likely that the higher the birth rate, the less need people would have to be homophobic."

I see what you are saying. I think there is something to that, but it's a minor point. It would be more comfortable to most people to be less populated now, but it has more to do with greater understanding of sexuality, in my opinion.

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[–] neonatalpenguin 13 years ago

Yes, but gender roles don’t just spring out of thin air, fully formed. The reason they survive for so long is because it’s very often impractical to abandon or subvert them. Aren’t social constructs a product of hard wiring? As the generations go by, we forget the reasons for our ancestors' prejudices, yet still keep them going.

Did religious values cause societal bigotry to develop (as you seem to be saying), or did the same factors that created bigotry also cause mankind to create religion? At the very least, I’d say they’re both symptoms of similar causes.

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[–] BoogieKnight 13 years ago

"Yes, but gender roles don’t just spring out of thin air, fully formed. The reason they survive for so long is because it’s very often impractical to abandon or subvert them."

Only to the extent that male human beings are generally physically stronger than their female counterparts. If this is a discussion solely about physical strength over mental hard-wiring, yes, gender roles seem fixed. I don't believe this is all-encompassing though.

"Aren’t social constructs a product of hard wiring?"

My position is that they are not. For example, we are not born hard-wired to believe in a "God," yet look at how many people base their existance around that social construct.

"As the generations go by, we forget the reasons for our ancestors' prejudices, yet still keep them going."

People don't seem to be forgetting what certain religions have contributed to this particular prejudice long ago.

"Did religious values cause societal bigotry to develop (as you seem to be saying), or did the same factors that created bigotry also cause mankind to create religion? At the very least, I’d say they’re both symptoms of similar causes."

You may be right. But the notion of "hard-wiring," implies that it is in our nature to be prejudiced and it is not learned behavior. Prejudice is group-think, a majority group against a minority group. An individual is hard-wired, a concept solely existing in a group does not relfect hard-wiring. This idea also does not apply to how homosexuality exists prejudice-free in other species.

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[–] neonatalpenguin 13 years ago

“We are not born hard-wired to believe in a "God," yet look at how many people base their existance around that social construct”

Nearly every civilisation in recorded history seems to have developed a belief in some kind of god or gods. Does this not suggest that there may be something inherent in a human that finds solace in believing in an invisible sky king? Sadly, homophobia seems to also be the norm in most societies. Does this not suggest something similar?

“Prejudice is group-think, a majority group against a minority group”

Hmm. Prejudice isn’t a synonym for bigotry though. All of us are prejudiced in some way; we are always making assumptions based on prior knowledge of similar situations rather than accurate knowledge of the current situation. I would argue that the less immediate danger humans find themselves in, the less likely they are to be prejudiced. My argument was that the less mankind is faced with the prospect of dying out through under-population, the less homophobia there is.

“This idea also does not apply to how homosexuality exists prejudice-free in other species”

I think you’d have a hard time measuring prejudice in the animal kingdom, where rape and incest are often unremarkable and commonplace. Homosexuality is small beans by comparison.

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[–] BoogieKnight 13 years ago

"Nearly every civilisation in recorded history seems to have developed a belief in some kind of god or gods. Does this not suggest that there may be something inherent in a human that finds solace in believing in an invisible sky king?"

I was wondering if you would actually contend that humans are "hard-wired" to believe in intelligent design. You cannot convince me that if you did, in theory, raise children presenting them with conclusive evidence that there is a scientific explanation for everything, they would still develop a belief in a "God," as a result of hard-wiring.

"My argument was that the less mankind is faced with the prospect of dying out through under-population, the less homophobia there is."

And I'd agree that this contention is one of several deciding factors, but it does not indicate hard-wiring at all. It's merely educated social observation.

"I think you’d have a hard time measuring prejudice in the animal kingdom, where rape and incest are often unremarkable and commonplace."

It's taken socialization to overcome animal instinct hard-wiring. Prejudice and bigotry are the result of that socialization.

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[–] neonatalpenguin 13 years ago

"I was wondering if you would actually contend that humans are "hard-wired" to believe in intelligent design"

I wouldn't word it like that. But, sure, I think mankind's natural inclination is to look around at the natural world and ask, "Who made that?” rather than ask, "What long-term natural process caused that to happen?"

“It's taken socialization to overcome animal instinct hard-wiring. Prejudice and bigotry are the result of that socialization”

What? Surely the opposite is true? Bigotry is the product of our animal instincts, which have been gradually withered away by socialization.

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[–] BoogieKnight 13 years ago

"I think mankind's natural inclination is to look around at the natural world and ask, "Who made that?” rather than ask, "What long-term natural process caused that to happen?"

So it has to be only the former and not the former plus the latter, then reaching a conclusion based upon what's presented? And why would it be "'who' put that there" as opposed to merely "where did that come from?" A belief in a higher power is nothing more than a response to a learned fear of death on the part of some, and of course, a means of keeping order among a population. Obvious social construct.

"Bigotry is the product of our animal instincts, which have been gradually withered away by socialization."

Due to the prevalence of homosexuality in so many other species, and a lack of any bigotry against the behavior elsewhere in the animal kingdom, it makes no sense to call bigotry an "animal instinct." That's a consistant conclusion. Certain prejudices shaped by experiences are in fact observable within the animal kingdom. The behavior of a severely abused dog compared to one which has not been abused is easily observable. Certain animals will also exhibit their own version of post-traumatic stress disorder if they witness their community numbers being thinned out. I have yet to read about another species objecting to others within their ranks' homosexual inclinations. If you know of one, that's about the only thing that might change my mind here.

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[–] Lord_Aragon 13 years ago

Its so amazing that where we should be lauding the amazing performance given by Sean Penn in this nice biopic, we still have to deal with homophobes. Rather than trying to impose sick ideas and their unreal defence we need to applaud that Sean Penn took upon himself to play Harvey Milk and did a great job.

Being a homosexual is not a crime nor is it a defect. And talking about God, he created us all equal so why try to differentiate and fight over being gay or straight.
By the way, for the record, I am straight !!!!

शहेंशाह

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[–] VampireSlayer11 13 years ago

What amazes me even more is the fact that NO ONE is complaining about lesbians..

Furthermore, I will keep my views on the matter to myself since it is pretty illogical for me to be criticizing how others should be living. I advice people to put that energy and effort in their own lives rather then bashing others.

Have a nice day friends

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[–] DeanWin 13 years ago

:D because I understand why a woman wants to be with another woman (boobs!), but i really dont understand why a man wants to be with another man :\. Its anti-man.

Boobs!

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[–] Emmywins305 10 years ago

:D because I understand why a woman wants to be with another woman (boobs!), but i really dont understand why a man wants to be with another man :\. Its anti-man.

Dean Win, you're looking at it only from a straight guy's point-of-view. There are plenty of women who don't want to be with other women because they're straight. YOU get turned on by two women together so that's why you're biased towards them. If you don't wanna be with another man, then don't be with him! If you don't like what two men do in private, then keep your nose out of their bedroom! But don't presume to tell two consenting adult males what they can and can't do in private! It is NOT anti-man to be gay. REAL MEN don't have a problem with gays or transgendered people. REAL MEN are comfortable with their masculinity and sexuality and they don't pick on others who are different. Those who pick on others for being different are f-----g cowards. Besides, if you don't like gay sex, why are you here messaging about it? If I hated it, I wouldn't even be here talking about it. Maybe YOU'RE the real "anti-man" here.

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