Loads of evidence,which was in a series of posts on this same subject which are no longer here.
The debate in the old posts came to the majority opinion that, after looking at the facts ,it was odd that Miss Roberts did not do some sort of war service,but the topic required most people to do some research because many people assumed that women did not do much in the war or/and that Miss Roberts was too young.
If you look at Mrs Thatcher's own auto biography and at Campbell's very pro Thatcher book he wrote about her you see that there is very little about World War 2 or her part in it,which is odd for somebody of her age.
Mrs Thatcher's story (or legend/myth)has been much written about,not least in 2 BBC dramas but the war period is never mentioned,and she was not too young,she was the same age as my mother,I know from family history and studying the period that it was unusual,maybe even very unusual for someone of her age not to have done some wartime service.
My aunt for example was too ill but all of her friends were in some sort of service or industry.
My mother did service in the Woman's Land Army,ruining her health in the process.
Put Miss Roberts to one side if you like and look into the role of women in Britain's war effort.
Lots of books have been written about this stuff and you don't need to take my word for anything,if you don't read books or are not near a library there are lots of sources on the internet.
If you insist I will dig out list of acts of parliament which meant that as the war went on men and women in Britain were more and more required to take up some sort of war work.
One of the sources I looked at when looking into this when the film came out went into how she went back to school prior to going to university,it was hard for someone of her age to avoid any sort of military service but she managed it.
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Mercader79
11 years ago
If you look at Mrs Thatcher's own auto biography and at Campbell's very pro Thatcher book
I've read the Campbell book. It isn't "very pro Thatcher" at all. It's actually reasonably balanced.
Hugo Young's One of Us is more sceptical about Thatcher/Roberts (Young was a Guardian journo).
There's very little about the war in that either. She was at school or Oxford during the war.
What more need be said?
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Mercader79
11 years ago
Several British women of a similar vintage to Thatcher who appear not to have done anything actively towards the war effort. It certainly wasn’t any disgrace. Hence why there’s never been any scandal over it. It’s a non-story.
Deborah Kerr
Fenella Fielding
Joan Plowright
Beryl Reid
June Whitfield
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Spielburger
11 years ago
Several British women of a similar vintage to Thatcher who appear not to have done anything actively towards the war effort. It certainly wasn’t any disgrace. Hence why there’s never been any scandal over it. It’s a non-story.
Deborah Kerr
Fenella Fielding
Joan Plowright
Beryl Reid
June Whitfield
Fielding and Plowright would have been too young for war service.
I'm not an expert, but I believe that Deborah Kerr (as with many other actors) would have been exempted as her films would have been considered beneficial to the war effort (i.e. raising morale). That's why there was such a fuss at the time over "The Life and Death of Colonel Blimp".
The same is possibly true of June Whitfield re her radio work, but I'm not sure about that.
Beryl Reid did theatre work throughout the war. I suspect she may have been married at the time (which would have initially allowed an exemption anyway), but I cannot confirm this.
By 1943, 90% of single women in the UK were employed in the war effort in some form or other...
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ib011f9545i
11 years ago
She was not "at school"in Oxford during the war,unless you mean in the American sense,meaning university.
She was born 13/10/25,so she was 18 in October 1943,she was not too young to do something towards the war effort and she was not in a reserved occupation.
She went to university when many of her age put aside their personal ambitions for the sake of the war effort.
I think Campbell is right of centre,I have read his book on Mrs Thatcher and his book on Bevan.
You are not interested in the details of the situation of women in wartime Britain.
If I am making this stuff up or am not understanding it correctly then please explain it to me.
It mostly comes down to the NATIONAL SERVICE ACT (NO2)of 1941.
The SPARTACUS SCHOOLNET says
"on 18th December 1941 the National Service Act was passed by parliament.
This legislation called up unmarried women aged between 20-30.
WIKIPEDIA WOMEN'S ROLES IN THE WORLD WARS,BRITAIN
"Women were "drafted"in the sense that they were conscripted into war work by the Ministry Of Labour,including non combat arms of the miltary.
BBC HISTORY WEBSITE
"WOMEN UNDER FIRE IN WORLD WAR 2 BY CAROL HARRIS
AUTHOR OF WOMEN AT WAR 1939-1945 THE HOME FRONT.
"December 1941 National Service Act (no2)conscription of women,at first only single women aged 20-30 were called up but by mid 1943 almost 90% of single women were employed in essential work for the war effort.
There were few ways how a fit unmarried women aged 20-30 could avoid being involed in some sort of war work,one of these ways was going into higher education.
I don't think it is a non story because from wartime until at least the 1970s what someone in public life did in "the war"was something that could work to their advantage or disadvantage.
Political candidates of all parties were not above mentioning their own war record while casting doubts on the suitablility for office of the other guy who had did not have such a good record.
Miss Roberts/Mrs Thatcher seems to have avoided questions about her early life during the war by being a women,the issue of wartime service by women is complicated and perhaps people assumed she was too young anyway.
I am not saying that her going to university was wrong but many people of her age made the choice of putting their education on hold until the war was won.
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Mercader79
11 years ago
She was 19 at the end of the war.
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Spielburger
11 years ago
She was 19 at the end of the war.
And as I pointed out earlier, the original minimum age of 20 was lowered to 19 later on, so your point is...?
It was possible to voluntarily join the ATS at 17. The Queen joined it in February 1945 - a couple of months before her 19th birthday.
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ib011f9545i
11 years ago
Well if we agree she was born on 13th October 1925 she was 20 in October 1945.
The war in europe ended in May 1945 and in Asia in August 1945.
As others have said here she could have volunteered to join the women's branch of the armed services or signed up to war work before being forced,as it turned out she decided to go to university.
Anybody could look into the details of exactly when the regulations became tighter and tighter for women but I don't think anybody can argue that the age that women had to do something became lower and what they were expected to do became wider in scope.
I don't know where you are from or what your interests or educational background are but I think if you look into it at all you might feel that Miss Roberts/Mrs Thatchers early history in relation to World War 2 is interesting and something she and her supporters did not want to talk about?
Remember Mrs Thatcher was someone who went on endlessly about the Munich Crisis (when Britain chose not to fight)and she also got upset at a Swedish tv reporter because Sweden had not taken part in World War 2,but when she had the chance to do something for her country she decided to go to university.
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Mercader79
11 years ago
Dare I suggest MR was from a working class background and had rather more to lose by potentially forfeiting a place at Oxford than somebody like the future Queen would have done?
And if this is such an issue, why did it never come up (as far as I've noticed anyway) during her political career?
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Spielburger
11 years ago
Dare I suggest MR was from a working class background and had rather more to lose by potentially forfeiting a place at Oxford than somebody like the future Queen would have done?
Thatcher was never working class: she was a middle class grammar school girl with pushy, ambitious parents. Her father was Mayor of Grantham.
Besides, no one's suggesting she'd be forfeiting a university place: it doesn't work like that. All she had to do was defer her start date: lots of people did it at the time (and still do).
There might have been an issue over her scholarship, though: she was originally rejected, but got it in the end because another candidate withdrew (I don't know why, but it would be amusing if it was to do war service instead...) But even then, she'd already decided to go to university by that stage.
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ib011f9545i
11 years ago
Dare I say SPIELBERGER makes my case better than I do?
I have already suggested why this never came up during her political career,the fact she was a women and not a man meant the issues were less clear.
I think we can all agree that rules regarding women and war service in World War 2 are complicated and the history of women in World War 2 still not well known,which is why people think her record is not unusual when in fact it is.
If she had been a man it would have been an issue,especially in the Tory party where a war record,hopefully as an officer ,was very much respected.
As Spielberger has already mentioned Miss Roberts was not working class,her father owned 2 grocers shops,her father was a senior local politician,she was part of the elite in a small town.
Everybody in politics works on their image and puts across the version of their history they want people to know.
Mrs Thatcher was not the first or last to do this but she did produce a version of the truth which has been taken on board in the public mind without much examination.
She was her millionaire husband's second wife,and as already mentioned she was happy if people thought her background was poorer than it actually was.
I think to be fair to her if she had her time again she might have not gone to university when she did,if she had been involved in war work she might have formed a better connection with ordinary people in later life.
As I have said already,if we put Miss Roberts the individual to one side and look at the role of women in World War 2 Britain in general then I think that
it is fair to say that the majority of women in that era were vital to the war effort and were proud of what they did at that time.
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Mercader79
11 years ago
There's so much better material to attack Thatcher with than this though.
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ib011f9545i
11 years ago
I have lots of things against Mrs Thatcher and indeed the current unelected Tory government but you can't say that her early life is not worth arguing about and then spend hours arguing about it.
As Mrs Thatcher probably never said to anybody I respect your opinion and we will have to agree to disagree .
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