MovieChat Forums > No Smoking (2007) Discussion > Very Bad Taste (SPOILERS)

Very Bad Taste (SPOILERS)


Send K to Hell by all means... Just don't send him to a bloody GAS CHAMBER.

You CANNOT just use the Holocaust as a handy "visual"! It was a specific event in history and should be treated as such out of respect to the victims - not have its externals plundered for a director's idea of a cheap shock!

Are there no European Jews in India who would have been able to let the director know what a gigantic failure of taste this was? And even if there were no handy Jewish people around to let him know "Anurag... Bad idea..." shouldn't he already be aware that you shouldn't turn an atrocity well within living memory into an "arty-looking image" just because it fits with your whole fire/ash/smoke theme?

I'm profoundly disappointed in this film. This looked like being the most amazing, mind-blowing movie out of Bollywood since OMKARA, and then at the end he does that to his audience.

Shame.

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It somewhat seems like you're overreacting. And it wasn't exactly a gas chamber, to be honest. More like a fire chamber. And I don't think it was his intention at all. Trust me, the film faltered in more important areas than the ending.

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It was a SHOWER. The sort of grey concrete "shower" that was such a feature of concentration camps.

The fact that it was fire rather than Zyklon B coming out to kill the line of gaunt, prison-suited victims is actually irrelevant. What matters was the deliberate recourse to the Nazi imagery, which started way back in the movie with the photo of Baba Bengali arm-in-arm with Hitler. (Also, "gas chamber" is one of imdb's keywords for this movie, so it's not as if I'm the only one to spot this.)

So what's Anurag's message here - that socially-persecuted smokers are on a par with concentration camp victims?

REALLY?

I don't think I'm overreacting. There are still people living who can remember a childhood or adolescence in a concentration camp; ask THEM if they think this constitutes an acceptable use of Nazi imagery. They are, after all, the ones whose opinion really matters.

I'd like to know what you didn't like about the rest of it, because up until those almost-closing moments of NO SMOKING I was thoroughly impressed by the whole thing. Sure, one could see the influence of the BBC serial THE PRISONER and Tarantino, but taken as a whole it was vivid, witty and challenging.

Hope Anurag listens to criticism, because I doubt I'm the only one who felt like they were biting into a big juicy chocolate truffle... and then found an earwig nestled inside

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orange-baba i think you're going overboard with the idea of nazi imagery. i think even if it was intended to be overtly nazi, it fit the bill perfectly. it was obvious the idea was not to have the viewers enjoy the photoplay but rather cringe. it didn't celebrate the torture instead just the opposite. thank god there's a director willing to make a movie like this - and such great execution - the visual imagery was simply world class. now that's what i feel cinema should be. oh, and orange-baba if all you gathered from the scene was that they were a bunch of people with a smoking problem.. ahem... plz watch the movie again, perhaps pick up hints from the various fora. the movie is a puzzle, is meant to puzzle, enjoy it.

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orange-baba i think you're going overboard with the idea of nazi imagery. i think even if it was intended to be overtly nazi, it fit the bill perfectly. it was obvious the idea was not to have the viewers enjoy the photoplay but rather cringe.


I have no doubt that it fits artistically - as I said above, what I objected to was the trivialization of a real-life genocide in order to make an artistic impact. Kashyap knows perfectly well that drawing on the visuals of a real-life atrocity will send a shiver down the audience's spine, that's why he did it. But it would have been far kinder to those affected by the Holocaust for him to have used a more generalized vision of Hell. That way he could have had his "smoke and ash" metaphor without insulting specific people.

it didn't celebrate the torture instead just the opposite.


I don't recall stating that Kashyap "celebrated" the Holocaust, I merely said that he trivialized it. Jokey references to Schindler's List, Hitler arm-in-arm with Baba Bengali - it comes across as Kashyap winking at the audience and saying "Aren't I clever?" Not the right way to deal with the systematic destruction of millions of human beings, if you ask me.

thank god there's a director willing to make a movie like this - and such great execution - the visual imagery was simply world class. now that's what i feel cinema should be.


Until the "Ash Tray" sequence, I would have agreed 100% with you. Had this been a mediocre movie, I wouldn't feel so angry that he misfired with that one tasteless sequence. Up until the Ash Tray sequence, I was considering pressing the DVD on my like-minded friends and saying "Look at this amazing film!" Needless to say, AFTER the "Ash Tray" sequence I knew I'd do no such thing.

oh, and orange-baba if all you gathered from the scene was that they were a bunch of people with a smoking problem.. ahem... plz watch the movie again, perhaps pick up hints from the various fora. the movie is a puzzle, is meant to puzzle, enjoy it.


I know it's a puzzle - which is why the insertion of the Holocaust visual really doesn't work. The victims in Baba Bengali's factory voluntarily placed themselves into Baba Bengali's hands and are being punished for their weakness, conformity, whatever. But how - HOW? - could Kashyap have used the Holocaust as a visual when we all know perfectly well that the victims of the Nazi atrocities did not volunteer to be there? The parallel is faulty, insulting to Holocaust victims and actually makes me more angry the more I think about it.

Make no mistake, the film comes close to being a masterpiece. But I am not willing to overlook such an insensitive, tasteless scene.

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I am gonna have to side with threeoranges. This was a pathetic excuse of a movie. The references to Gas chambers was in extremely poor taste.

I'd like draw attention of those justifying Director's move to the reference earlier in the Movie. Remember the scene where Anjali/Annie was watching TV documentary ? It was pertaining to the holocast as well. Even the Ghantal Baba pointedly refers to Hitler & holocast as well.

Very poor taste. I hated myself for buying the movie. I donated it to charity next day.

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I do not share Baba Bengali's veiws but this never even occured to me while watching the film. I think "sensitive" people have a way to take the most peripheral of issues to criticize the work.

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Are you kidding me ? Using the Gas chamber to get rid of your spirit is a peripheral issue ? You've got to be kidding me!

Baba Bengali was using the gas chamber as a core "Ultimate Solution" after killing off your near and dear didn't help. If you still think that's not core to his whacked rationale then I feel you in all probability didn't understand the movie completely..

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The anti-tobacco movement in Nazi Germany was the first public anti-smoking campaign in modern history. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-tobacco_movement_in_Nazi_Germany )

So if you think of it, the imagery is quite apt.

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So public campaigns to stop tobacco companies getting their claws into young children and to wake up impressionable people to the dangers of smoking must be totalitarian, just because something like it went on in Nazi Germany? (Gosh, the soft drink "Fanta" was invented in Nazi Germany. Does that make anyone who drinks it a Nazi sympathizer?)

The imagery is still not apt - not least because, as I said before, the film involves people VOLUNTARILY putting themselves in Baba Bengali's hands. This is totally different from what happened under the Nazis.

For the record, there IS another film out there which has an anti-smoking squad descending upon nicotine addicts and punishing them severely - it's called BREATHE SAFELY by Paul Push and, from the review below, appears to be one of the worst "films" ever made:

http://www.mjsimpson.co.uk/reviews/breathesafely.html

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I think u have completely missed the point.
Its incredibly funny and ironic to see this since the whole movie 'actually' talks about people like you.

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I think u have completely missed the point.
Its incredibly funny and ironic to see this since the whole movie 'actually' talks about people like you.


Because I am appalled at the idea of the Holocaust being used as a cheap visual, I'm some sort of pathetic "conformist"?

In that case, GOOD. I'm pleased that I'm "conformist" enough to care about one of the worst atrocities of the 20th century - and if I ever get "cool" and "non-conformist" enough to approve of this kind of cool arty misuse of its imagery, kindly take me out back and SHOOT ME.

I thought this was a one-off from Kashyap but no, he did it again in GULAAL. "Jaise duur desh ke tower me ghus gayo re aeroplane"?

Maybe it's just because both 9/11 and the Holocaust were *Western* atrocities and hence sufficiently removed from his immediate concerns for him to misuse them for his "art". I notice Kashyap gave "Black Friday" due respect in his first feature - I wonder if Indian audiences would have been as happy to hear laughing musical references to their people being blown to bits by Raj Thackeray.

Now, there's an idea - an updated "Ranaji" for the BLACK FRIDAY soundtrack where actors laugh and smile at the idea of Indians being blown up in the streets!

What, you don't like that idea? I wonder why!

Ultimately, Kashyap needs to grow up. It's not "cool" to shock for the sake of being shocking, it's just pathetic.

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I disagree.
First, I personally thought the holocaust imagery was given due respect in No Smoking, enough that it brought the whole thing slightly closer to me. And if you think being forced into joining up by being put somewhere another trip to where he won't survive is 'voluntary',... please never rule me.
Second, 'Ranaji' is not a laughing song. If you remember the whole song, it's comparing all these things to Ranaji's anger. This is in one - yes, funny and a pleasure to listen to - stroke comparing all these events here to world politics. Yes, it seems like bad taste at first(I was appalled) but it all resolves up when you think about the movie. I think the provocativeness is supposed to inspire exactly your reaction. And let's not forget, she's also trying to provoke Ranaji with this song, so it has to be pretty provocative.

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I personally thought the holocaust imagery was given due respect in No Smoking, enough that it brought the whole thing slightly closer to me.


Oh well, that's all right then! It's OK to plunder Holocaust imagery for your film, because it "brings the whole thing closer to people"!

Except, y'know, NOT.

What Kashyap was doing was taking something out of context which should NEVER, NEVER be removed from its context. You cannot take the resonant imagery connected with the systematic deaths of millions of people and use it for your postmodern comment on social oppression. It is highly disrespectful to those who suffered and those who died.

And if you think being forced into joining up by being put somewhere another trip to where he won't survive is 'voluntary',... please never rule me.


What I said earlier is that Kashyap's "message" is that K chose to give himself up completely to another person, who then controlled him and killed his soul. That is what I meant by it being "voluntary", K chose to surrender his free will. Now can you see why I am so upset about Kashyap using Holocaust imagery for his parable? The Jews and other minorities did NOT surrender their free will, they had no choices given to them! The parallel fails, both on an artistic and on a moral level.

I think the provocativeness is supposed to inspire exactly your reaction. And let's not forget, she's also trying to provoke Ranaji with this song, so it has to be pretty provocative.


When I see Kashyap re-working BLACK FRIDAY to include a Ranaji about the Mumbai bombings...

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I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree on the appropriateness of the imagery and I don't think there's any way either of us are going to budge(remember, I read the thread before posting).

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What I said earlier is that Kashyap's "message" is that K chose to give himself up completely to another person, who then controlled him and killed his soul. That is what I meant by it being "voluntary", K chose to surrender his free will. Now can you see why I am so upset about Kashyap using Holocaust imagery for his parable? The Jews and other minorities did NOT surrender their free will, they had no choices given to them! The parallel fails, both on an artistic and on a moral level.
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You'll have to explain more. I don't get where you got that 'Kashyap's "message" is that K chose to give himself up completely to another person'.

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When I see Kashyap re-working BLACK FRIDAY to include a Ranaji about the Mumbai bombings...
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Not on the same level but mms scandal and car business. Wouldn't put it past him to do that though. Also, I kinda gave a reason for it (Ranaji) being international. if you reaad my post.

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You'll have to explain more. I don't get where you got that 'Kashyap's "message" is that K chose to give himself up completely to another person'.

I don't see how you DIDN'T get that message:

Basic synopsis of NO SMOKING

1) K gets told "quit smoking or else" by his girlfriend
2) K goes to Baba Bangali and places himself under his total control
3) K finds his life being controlled by Baba Bangali
4) At the end, K's soul gets destroyed in a GAS CHAMBER

The Jews did not enter into a Faustian pact with the devil, which is why it is insulting to use the analogy of the gas chambers.

Not on the same level but mms scandal and car business. Wouldn't put it past him to do that though. Also, I kinda gave a reason for it (Ranaji) being international. if you reaad my post.

It is easy to laugh about atrocities which don't happen on your own turf. (Not that I make a habit of doing this... but this film does.) I doubt Kashyap would make light of Indian tragedies: it makes no sense from a financial perspective.

However, if he did, I wouldn't think he was some edgy and radical artist, I would think he had no taste at all.

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tel ki dukan hai dari ki dukan hai kya hai yeh>?

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