SPOILER POST.
Just watched Razor abit earlier.
"And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering"
First I just thought Baltar would be somekind of Jesus, know I'm sure he's the cylon Jesus and the fifth of the five.
I mean he's already portrayed as some sort of Jesus or atleast some very strong connection to the cylon Jesus.
He's got the hair and beard right for how Jesus is normally portrayed, and he got this habit of posing as a cross, like when he's drugged and thinks he's in water, or when he collapse on Kobol.
There's also another hybrid in s3 which says something about his mind is burning like a fire and that he is the chosen one.
He himself have said that the only way he will find redemption is if he was a cylon. He did play a major role in almost wiping out the human race.
His home was obliterated by a nuclear blast wave which no human could survive while he was in it. Number Six only survived that blast wave by being downloaded.
Right before Number Three says she's sorry to one of the five in s3, that would could possible fit Anders and maybe even Tigh(We do not know who poked out his eye). But it fits Baltar even more, considering how they treated him on New Caprica.
He has a possible angel of God to guide and protect him and there's defently a link between the final five and the five priests of the one who's name cannot be spoken.... Perhaps he's the high priest, or even the child of the one who's name cannot be spoken which fits with him being their Jesus or the step-father of Jesus, afterall he is the chosen one.
The seven did not know he is a cylon, nor did they know about Tigh, Anders, the Cheif or the President's Aid being cylons.
As for the music on the Galactica at the end of s3, he wouldn't need the music to sort of activate him or what ever happens to the four others. He's speciel, he has an angel of God with him, he is the one who is in the shadow, seeking redemption and will not be "Glorious awakened" along with the other four.
The only thing I can't make to much sense of is Caprica-Six having a Balter in her head, but then again, her virtuel Baltar could also be an angel of God trying to redeem her for her role in the attack on the Colonies, but I can't figure out why she also should have an angel helping to redeem her.
That's all I can think of for Baltar.
Since there's so much about Starbuck being a cylon, even though the ones behind the show have stated she is not a cylon I'll say this:
"Enemies brought together by impossible longing, enemies now joined as one. The way forward at once unthinkable, yet inevitable. And the fifth, still in shadow, will claw toward the light, hungering for redemption that will only come in the howl of terrible suffering. I can see them all. The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin, but in time, it is sin that will consume them. They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many, and then they will join the promised land, gathered on the wings of an angel. Not an end, but a beginning".
"Kara Thrace will lead the human race to its end. She is the herald of the apocalypse, the harbinger of death. They must not follow her".
I believe she's an angel, she has a destiny, she dies and comes back as an angel, the one that will lead both humans and cylons to Earth aka the promised land where they as a unified people and race..... And she got those viper(angel?) wings.
Either that or she is a demon. On Kobol they were aided by a "minor demon", she's the one that goes back for the Arrow of Apollo and the one they must not follow.
I know there's alot of religion in this post, but in real life I'm 100% atheist.
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ivana2804
16 years ago
Right before Number Three says she's sorry to one of the five in s3, that would could possible fit Anders and maybe even Tigh(We do not know who poked out his eye). But it fits Baltar even more, considering how they treated him on New Caprica.
If it was Baltar, why was she so surprised? "You?! Forgive me...I had no idea!" She definitely recognized somebody she would have never expected to be a Cylon. Baltar had been telling her he wondered if he was a Cylon and asking her if he she had seen his face eversince he found out about her repeated deaths and resurrections, but she told him she didn't know because she couldn't remember their faces. So it's certainly not like the thought had never crossed her mind. He would be the last person she should have showed such a surprise.
As for Baltar surviving the blast, we've already been through that, he had as much chance of surviving it as any of those survivors who ran up to Helo and Sharon's raptor. They couldn't have all been Cylons. Many people survived Hiroshima and Nagasaki as well. Baltar's house was clearly not anywhere in the center of the nuclear explosion, watch the scene and you can see how long it takes for the nuclear shockwave to reach his house. Caprica Six was probably killed by the shattered glass and walls of the house that were tumbling down.
better sorry than safe
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jakeconhale
16 years ago
It sems likely that it was Anders she saw and asked for forgiveness, after taunting him so on Caprica and almost killing him.
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Digglerholdings
16 years ago
I would like to pint out some facts/thoughts.
1) Why are we so sure Tyrol is the father of Callie's baby? I wouldn't be so sure with that one.
2) Characters in the dark might best fit Gaeta or Zarek. Gaeta seems in a dark spot in the CIC, helped develop the Cylon detector which he may have sabatoged, may have put the thing in the CIC, may have informed the Cylons that they found the Eye of the Jupiter thing on the Algae planet seems overly bright, and may have known all along he is the 5th dude. Again may have turned on the music. Also he was in the last episode and has been involved from the start.
3) Tom Zarek is in the dark or is a dark character. His whole persona spells cylon to me. For many subtle reasons he seems to be a great candidate.
4) Brother Cavil poked out Tigh's eye
5) If Adama remember's Tigh as a younger man he either was a youger man or Adama is a Cylon with planted memories. Although it is true he has children, are they his or are they hybrid?.....
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CoolClones
16 years ago
A few points worth making.
THE FINAL FOUR
Cylons are machines who became aware and sentient. They then set about changing themselves into their creators but removed a human's fundamental flaw. This flaw is longevity and is overcome by the ability to "download".
The Four, I suggest, are something similar to one of Blade Runner's replicants. By this I mean a manufactured real life human being with a shorter, one shot lifespan. An earlier and now obsolete model because it simply doesn't live long enough to be useful.
Modern Cylon models are by any definition, Gods. On the other hand, the final four are every bit as Cylon, but share the possibility of mortal death of their human counterparts.
The fear of death lives large in the human psychy. I suggest that this fear was passed on to the Cylons and they came up with a remedy.
THE CYLON GOD
This dude is certainly NOT an evolutional dead end. He is the first mechanical/biological Cylon. He is literally the Missing Link. He is the bridge between circuit bones and flesh and blood.
I make an assumption that the Cylon "God" was certainly a man made AI with access to ALL human knowledge. This is why he knows that all of this has haoppened before and will happen again. He knows everything that's ever been inputted or scanned into a computer. He can see the patterns that Human's never live long enough to see and can only learn about from history.
I think it's safe to assume this. I reckon the Cylons have "detailed files" on their shared human history, it is their history too after all.
One thing that many of you guys may not have picked up on is that Sharon is in chains when she tells the brass about the nature of the Cylon God. This should tell you that this isn't "our" Athena, it's Sharon who has been in the brig and quite recently been raped by a fat bald man from the Pegasus.
She's the Sharon who somehow miraculously saved the fleet from a fleet of raiders. Remember the Cylon virus situation? At the same time as the Cylons wanted Sharon's baby to survive they where trying to destroy the Galactica? It doesn't ring true to me. It was a deliberate set up to help her gain favour from Adama and keep her alive to complete her mission.
This Sharon is a liar. She's certainly not willing to give up her creator at this or any stage of proceedings.
"There must be some way outta here" said the Joker to the Thief.
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vosges1945
16 years ago
*****5) If Adama remember's Tigh as a younger man he either was a youger man or Adama is a Cylon with planted memories.*****
If it's the "Adama with planted memories' option, then why would Tigh have memories of Adama? They both remember each other so they are either both human or both cylon...
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edo3050-1
16 years ago
At the end of Razor, only six human cylons were known by any member of the human population of the fleet or by the survivors on Caprica. Hence, the cylon hybrid says seven now six to bring this fact to light. Returning to season 1, Roslin told the fleet that Cylons were now able to look like humans. Hence, pictures of known cylon human agents would be seen by the actual humans of the fleet. After the end of season 2, nobody who watches the show suspected that Tyrol, Tigh, Anders, or the new character Tory would be announced as cylons at the end of season 3. First of all, before MP3 players and digital radios, there were analong radios which always had a static sound when someone switched the channels. Therefore, using the reasoning that a character is hearing static while playing a radio is no clue to being a cylon. However, a character appearing briefly within a episode i.e season 2 "Downloaded" is a clue. Both Tigh and Tyrol appeared briefly in "Downloaded" but they were in scenes were baby Hera was the subject matter of the scene. The same can be said about Tory who was only in her second episode in the series. Tory is the one who made the list of people who could take of Baby Hera. Anders had more screen time while he was on Caprica (eventhough much of it was in the shadows of a parking garage) for a supporting character that isn't a lead like Gaius Baltar. Gaius Baltar had a good amount of screen time but he is not the 5th cylon as the hybrid in the 3rd season called him very important. Cylons say the opposite of the truth so bringing up the fact/statement that yes a hybrid called Baltar very important is to mislead you from the truth. However, Doc Cottle had a good amount of screen time in the episode "Downloaded" for just being a supporting character i.e hiding in the shadows. For anyone who saw Razor on DVD, you also saw the 44 second sneak preview of season 4 where we hear Doc Cottle's voice saying "Do you believe in miracles" and the words stamped on the screen "DESTINY IS NOT WHAT IT SEEMS". It is clear that the Razor hybrid told his children (i.e the 7 cylon humans known by the end of season 2) that Kara Thrace would destroy the human race sometime during saeson 4. That is why the human cylon Leoben is so determine to help Kara Thrace as he thinks the prophecy is true. BUT AGAIN, cylons tell the opposite of the truth and even R.D.M is telling you this thru season 4's "44" second trailer. Now, I am 110% sure that Doc Cottle is the 5th cylon.
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ivana2804
16 years ago
At the end of Razor, only six human cylons were known by any member of the human population of the fleet or by the survivors on Caprica. Hence, the cylon hybrid says seven now six to bring this fact to light.
Why would the Hybrid give a frak about what the Humans knew or didn't know at that point?! He wasn't talking to Humans. He was having a monologue.
He says "Seven, now Six" because there will be only 6 models left at the point of time he is talking about (which was in the future, but to the Hybrid, this doesn't matter, Time is obviously not linear for him), because model no. 3 ("D'Anna") will have been boxed at that moment in time.
better sorry than safe
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cfparent8
16 years ago
I'd like to reinforce what ivana2804 said above.
At the end of Razor, only six human cylons were known by any member of the human population of the fleet or by the survivors on Caprica. Hence, the cylon hybrid says seven now six to bring this fact to light.
Um, no. The Hybrid is most likely referring to the boxing of D'Anna, which takes place over a year later. Re-read what the Hybrid says about the Seven:
The seven, now six, self-described machines who believe themselves without sin. But in time, it is sin that will consume them.
They will know enmity, bitterness, the wrenching agony of the one splintering into the many.
This is exactly what starts to happen over the course of season 3. In fact, this process started as far back as season 1. The Cylons started out united: they made decisions as a group, they all wanted the same thing, they believed they were without sin, they believed it was God's will to destroy humanity, etc. Over time and after gaining individual experiences, they began to splinter. Caprica Six and Boomer both felt sympathetic to humanity and got the other Cylons to acknowledge that committing genocide against humanity was a horrendous sin. Athena chose to side with the Colonials. Making group decisions got increasingly hard on New Caprica -- they were all divided. D'Anna started doing her own thing in her quest to see "what lies between life and death," which led to her becoming a threat and then getting boxed ("The seven, now six..."). And there are many other examples of how those two sentences have been coming true over the course of the series.
So, no. The Hybrid isn't referring to what the Colonials know. He's referring to the Cylons destroying themselves by becoming consumed by their own sins and by becoming individuals. In that scene he's speaking about the past, the future, and the present like it's all happening in the present, and to him, it probably is. "All of this has happened before, and will happen again." Whether they are literally destroyed or metaphorically destroyed (e.g., the Cylons as we know them cease to exist and become something new once they gain individuality) remains to be seen.
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poofta1970
16 years ago
Maybe the 'head' Six (seen by Baltar), 'head' Baltar (seen by Caprica Six), 'head' Carolanne Adama (seen by Bill) and the 'head' Leoben (seen by Starbuck) are all manifestations of the final Cylon model.
A Cylon that can hop from Cylon and Human brain alike and influence their actions, remaining in the shadows of the mind.
The new series version of Count Iblis.
Or could it just be Ramo Lampkin?
Apparently the last Cylon is not in this picture:
http://www.majordojo.com/2008/01/decoding-bsgs-last-supper.php
And Ramo has been spending a lot of time with Lee recently.
Surely he would be normally be close to him at this time?
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dustin-daimar
16 years ago
Edo your logic seems flawed. I am sorry but your "downloaded" theories make no sense to me. Why does this episode have to have the 5th cylon in it? Just because Ron said it was his favorite? Great he likes that episode good times. How can you (other than a gut feeling) derive logically that the 5th cylon is in it? Can you please attempt to answer that question for me, as I am curious and feel I am missing an important piece of information.
I think that the clue about the fifth hiding in shadow or whatever tells us that the model is indeed dead and awaiting ressurection. I do not think the term shadow is trying to tell us that it is a co star, but I think this person is dead and Xena could feel the final cylon's presense when she went through the suicide phase during the period just before being ressurected but after death.
So to me Kendra is probably the best bet, although i hope she is not. But there are loads of dead people, so who knows.
My bet is the fifth cylon has already died on the show and is awaiting ressurection.
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MeanerWithTheScenery
16 years ago
It would be great for an old cast member to return as the fifth. Perhaps Billy or Ellen. I wouldn't like to see Kendra as the fifth, it would feel like such a cheat, although it is a shame that she died. I was hoping at the end of razor the hybrid might convince her to change her mind about nuking the ship and jump away (with the hybrid still alive)to return sometime in season 4.
"That sound you hear, is stunned silence."
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lonecow12
16 years ago
That is exactly what I've been saying since we learned of a final five, but so far you are the only other person I've seen suggest that. I personally think this is the right theory.
Also to support this is that at one time a "Six" shows up on Galactica to tell everyone about how Giaus leaked the info to the Cylons about the Defense plans, and then she just vanished into thin air without anyone knowing where she went. If she was just in their minds that explains how she vanished.
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havardsandsdalen
16 years ago
Maybe Battlestar Galactica ItSELF is the final Cylon.
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holtman-d
16 years ago
"Maybe Battlestar Galactica ItSELF is the final Cylon."
Transformer?
I would liie to see all the cast member who have died come back as Cylons. The ones we know like Billy, Racetrack, Kendra (especially Kendra...mmmm...Kendra...), Ellen and Cain. Maybe even Chuckles.
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