MovieChat Forums > Battlestar Galactica: Razor (2007) Discussion > That 'shakey CAM' thing -- what's it cal...

That 'shakey CAM' thing -- what's it called?


In Razor, the hand-held 'shaky style' was more in evidence than ever before.

I was wondering if it is called anything.

Even the SFX are done shakey CAM style. This keeps the camera moving and is probably why BSG has had such a powerful impact on television: it's doesn't look like anything else in science fiction.

Is the shaky CAM part of a master book for the show? The masterbook is the style sheet for production and includes what the characters are like and other style elements.

The closest one could call it as an historic style is _cinema verite_ but that doesn't capture it for me.

So what's it called?

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It's generally referred to as "cinema verite" or "documentary style."

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In technical terms, it's generally referred to as "crap".

It's got nothing to do with Cinema verite or Documentary Style.

It's a very recent invention (late 80s - early 90s) and has the operator INTENTIONALLY shake the camera for no particular reason.

It is the reason Battlestar Galactica has such puny ratings and has mode no impact on Science-Fiction except as an example of how to make a show that nobody watches.

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*****...has mode (sic) no impact on Science-Fiction except as an example of how to make a show that nobody watches.*****

And yet somehow has got you here to boost your ego whining about it, sight unseen?

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[deleted]

Shaky-cam aside, I am responding to this post over 3 years later. Battlestar Galactica has come and gone, with an ending that was as controversial as the reimagined series itself.

I have just finished rewatching seasons 1-3, and am about to watch Razor tonight, and will follow up with the complete season 4 in the coming weeks. Yes, season 3 has quite a few lulls, but I can honestly say that BSG was one of the finest sci-fi shows... ever.


"My name is Saul Tigh. I'm an officer in the Colonial Fleet. Whatever else I am, whatever else it means, that's the man I want to be. And if I die today, that's the man I'll be."

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In technical terms, your opinion is ''crap''

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Also called "Hand held", "first person" or "POV".
It's just a way of putting the viewer in the scene.

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Just to be picky: Firefly did it first. But it's meant to resemble a documentary in that way; you don't have fixed cameras, it's not always in focus, as if there really is a cameraman there "in the moment" without a script in hand so he doesn't know all the angles. Like Reagunn said it's supposed of making it feel more natural to the vieiwer. The office does it, too but there it's almost part of the plot.

______________________
If you can't say anything bad about yourself I'm not interested.

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umm... Firefly was hardly the first to do it... it's been around for years, but has become incredibly popular lately with Firefly and BSG along with shows like Arrested Development

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I was thinking more of Sci-fi shows who do it, especially with their CGI-shots.

______________________
If you can't say anything bad about yourself I'm not interested.

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Not only do you get the hand-held camera in Firefly and BSG CGI shots but also the creators paid attention to the black level and blue channel noise. Making the "perfect" CGI shots less perfect caught my attention.

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NYPD Blue did it first. 15 Years ago

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My devil danced with his demon and the fiddler‘s tune is far from over

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Actually, Homicide: Life On The Street did it before NYPD Blue. And it did it better, IMO.

The first episode of NYPD Blue aired in September 1993. The first episode of Homicide: LOTS aired in January 1993.


better sorry than safe

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GAP commercials were doing it in the early early 90's. Prolly because of NYPD Blue.

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[deleted]

We all know that Simpsons probably did it so what are we arguing for ;) ?

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Pfft! What are you guys going on about... I've seen documentaries which are way older than 1993 which was using the 'shakey cam' style... I do not see them getting any credit!

(Gosh... some people...)

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That's because they weren't TRYING to get bad images. They just happened not to be able to do better. The pseudo-hip thing now is to shake the camera artificially to create bad quality on purpose.

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To the person who said Firefly did it first...you are correct in the sense that Firefly was the first to use CGI to simulate a "shaky-cam" effect for scenes taking place in space. BSG also does this. There is no actual shaky-cam footage being shot in those shaky-cam space scenes. It's all CGI done to look like there is a shaky-cam out there in space filming actual spaceships. And Firefly was the first to employ that technique, as mentioned on the Firefly DVD.

Of course, for the shots of live actors doing things shaky-cam style, it's simply borrowing from lots of other shows that came before it, Firefly included.

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The were some shots of this kind in Babylon 5 but Firefly was the first to choose it as the universal style for both live action and special effects.


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I know it's a bit late, but one of the first to use it, if not THE first, was "Above And Deyond".

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Actually, Firefly was not the first to do it in CGI either. The technique was developed for Babylon 5, for a few specific episodes that required the handheld look throughout. It was done in Lightwave 3D (the same 3D application used for all the CGI in Babylon 5, Enterprise, Firefly and Battlestar Galactica). It is done by mapping procedural noise onto the virtual 'camera's motion path. It can be used to add shakiness in any direction or vector, but is best used in extreme moderation (hint, hint). I'm actually starting to get a wee bit tired of seeing it all the time. Especially when all live media footage, like MTV, MuchMusic, and everything else, seems to have it in excess.

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"but is best used in extreme moderation (hint, hint)."

Those, Sir, are words to live by! :)

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Wow renamoretti u sad idiot.

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"Also called "Hand held", "first person" or "POV".
It's just a way of putting the viewer in the scene."


Actually, a "first person" or "POV" shot means that the camera is literally supposed to be looking through the eyes of a character. It's kind of hokey, and rarely ever done. It's usually done very briefly, such as when a character is drugged or knocked out and you see the image go out of focus and fade to black.

"handheld" means that the camera is literally handheld, resting on the shoulder of the operator. It's supposed to be like you are an invisible non-participant witness in the room watching the action, and it is meant to put the viewer "in the scene," as you say

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"It's just a way of putting the viewer in the scene."

Actually, it does exactly the reverse. By shaking the camera constantly in a completely artificial way, it attracts attention to itself and take the viewer out of the scenes.

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Ouch!
So wrong...so funny.=)

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it's called "cheap direction"... or the belief that purposedly shaking the camera and constantly zooming and dezooming at odd angles add an element of thruthfulness to an otherwise flat direction...

It's a zero budget effect, used in almost every action flick or TV show nowadays and in fact it even saves you money since you can use almost any a$$hole as a principal camera guy since the less he knows what he's doing, the more "convincing" the effect.

And it's so convincing... I mean, really, guys... Imagine you're in the middle of a battle on a big battlestar... you're looking up, you're looking down, your eyes shake, zoom and dezoom... no really... you don't realize it but they DO do that...



For every lie I unlearn I learn something new - Ani Difranco

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It's not insinuating that you are actually there... that would be one continuous shot ;), its more suggestive that it was recorded without a specific script.

Frankly, I find it helps set a mood, I rarely notice it when watching, but looking back on other shows the locked camera style begins to seem artificial.

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"it's called "cheap direction"... or the belief that purposedly shaking the camera and constantly zooming and dezooming at odd angles add an element of thruthfulness to an otherwise flat direction...

It's a zero budget effect, used in almost every action flick or TV show nowadays and in fact it even saves you money since you can use almost any a$$hole as a principal camera guy since the less he knows what he's doing, the more "convincing" the effect."


you couldn't be more wrong. It takes a talented camera operator and a sharp focus puller to pull off this look and make it work. The timing between the actors, camera operators and camera assistant(focus pullers) has to be perfect, very much like a dance. Everybody has to work together, while making it look spontaneous and effortless, take after take. The camera assistant has to constantly refocus and whether the shot ultimately works depends on everybody hitting their marks and if they don't, the assistant must compensate in real time. The cameras are unbelievably heavy at up to 50lbs and these technicians are masters at their craft.

I had the honor of recently working on a popular 2 camera Fox action drama, and my job as dolly grip entailed taking this heavy camera off it's stand, placed it on the shoulder of the operator and act as eyes in the back of his head so he didn't hit anything or fall off a curb, and my shoulders and arms were sore for weeks after only 6 days on location. You gotta give it up.

Don't sleep on the handheld documentary-style.

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Exactly! - nicely put 'jump237', this technique isn't as straightforward as it appears to be (I've addressed this already in 'The Bourne Ultimatum' thread, talk about deja vu!)...

I spent over a decade as a Camera Operator/DoP, before moving into Direction, and trust me it takes a lot of skill and concentration to 'fake' that so-called documentary look...

In Doco's thing's are of course unrehearsed/unplanned, therefore a camera operator is at the whim of what happens in the real-time, real-life situation he or she may find themselves in...

To recreate this 'doco' feel in drama, as Operators, we have to heavily contrive that verite look - and its easier said than done, we have to take into account not only our own (Camera) blocking, but also the blocking for the actors (they in turn have to be mindful of us!), one also has to take into account restrictions of the Set/Location you're shooting in, and as for Stunts/Physical Effects, well, don't get me started!

Suffice to say, for the what feels like umpteenth time, this so-called 'shaky-cam' style is NOT as simple to achieve as it appears to be.

I don't mean to appear elitist, I truly don't, but to those folk who pretend to know what you're talking about and attempt to inform people seeking information, but only end up mis-informing, I say shut up!

Oh yeah, and for the record, the CORRECT term for this camera style is not 'shaky-cam', but in fact 'Loose-Frame' - at least that is what my colleagues and I have referred to it as for the past decade or so...

As for the actual aesthetic/artistic use of the technique, that's entirely for the individual, whoever they may be, to judge...

Yes, Loose-Frame can get overused and badly (early seasons of NYPD Blue, anyone?!) as for BattleStar Galactica, and personally speaking, I think they got it just about right, given the overall tone and aesthetic of the show.

Peace,

PG.

''...a little whimsical in the brain-pan''

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"Loose-Frame can get overused and badly (early seasons of NYPD Blue, anyone?!)"

I didn't get into the NYPD Blue series, but the episodes I did watch it seemed that the "shakey cam" was actually on an unlocked tripod instead of true handheld. The image pivoted on a central point whereas handheld gives more lateral movement. This sort of ruined the effect for me since it made it looked semi-mechanical.

As someone else pointed out, Homicide: Life on the Street did it earlier and much better. But even earlier than that, the first drama I remember using the effect was Hill Street Blues in the 1980s.

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Yeah, you're correct - one of the standard approaches to filming loose frame is shooting from an undampened tripod.

As for who actually used the technique 1st, well, thats hard to pin down precisely, and we could all go on and on and still not find an actual moment in time when Loose-Frame was born, personally speaking, I think William Friedkin and 'The French Connection' have got a lot to answer for...!

Peace,

PG.

''...a little whimsical in the brain-pan''

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"This sort of ruined the effect for me since it made it looked semi-mechanical. "

That's exactly the problem of shaky-cam. It's one hundred percent artificial and yet used supposedly to make something "more real" when it achieves the exact opposite effect.

Also, it's a completely valid technique... as long as you don't use it mindlessly over every shot.

It's the equivalent of writing everything in caps and thinking it makes your writing better.

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Don't bother. As a professional cameraman I've responded to this topic at least ten times in different threads and no matter how you explain that hand held - long lens photography (not intentionally shaking the camera, which is what was done on NYPD Blue) choreographed to the actors and action gives a more visceral feeling, indeed makes the audience feel part of the action by making the camera a character in the scene, there are always a handful numskulls who come back with the shaky cam or intentionally shaking the camera post, despite the fact that Ron Moore has explained that the style intentionally runs against the grain of traditional SciFi shows and helps ground the show in reality.

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I personally am not a fan of the camera technique, especially now that is so much of a cliche. It can look ok when done properly, such as in Children of Men, or it can be horrible such as in the most recent Bourne movie.

BSG is somewhere in between. I don't understand the purpose of the technique in most scenes. "As if a cameraman were actually there..." In a dream sequence? That drives me nuts more than anywhere else. With all of BSGs visions, dreams and prophecies, they could certainly knock it off with the hand cams. In fact, it might be a better choice, to create some kind of visual juxtaposition there. They already try to produce that effect with the lighting and colors, the camera work would just be the finishing touch.

All in all, it reminds me of Michael Bay's philosophy that the camera should never stop moving. This is just the inexpensive way of doing it, rather than Michael Bays costly camera rigs.

I'm personally ok with the occasional smooth pan during a short scene, or god forbid, static shots. Especially where it is more appropriate for the camera to be held steady. Such as when the camera man doesn't have to move. When you watch a documentary, the camera doesn't really shake that much after the camera man has picked his angle. In BSG, and other shows, the camera dips and bobs constantly even when focusing in on a single angle.

Only someone with some serious jitters couldn't hold a camera still when standing still, shooting one angle, never moving the camera. It's pure and simple "the camera can never stop" philosophy.

Where Children of Men got it right in their documentary style, was that it actually looked like someone was trying to film the action, rather than trying to avoid it. The camera work never drew attention to itself. When the camera man picked a shot, and filmed it, he held the camera still. When the camera man was running, the camera shook. When he was in a car getting rocked, the camera rocked. There wasn't any 'lets give the camera to rummy here and see how steady his hands are'.

For the record though, the camera work in the SFX shots in BSG have been done in that same style before. If you watch the miniseries a piece of debris actually hits the 'camera' and pushes it away from the action.

You also see the camera vibrate when the Galactica fires its guns, as if the camera were mounted on the ship. This isn't anything new.

This isn't even anything new about SciFi, or television in general. Most television shows have terrible camera work. Only movies have the time to sit there and work with expensive rigs and re-shoot scenes because of a little jitter. This style is often something born out of restrictions on time, location and money, not artistic choices.

Lost is a perfect example. They film on the sand and in dense foliage. There wouldn't be time to set up a tripod or a gimbal/crane and still get episodes out on time, and on budget. You can actually see the difference in the quality of photography when watching what takes place in the wilderness scenes compared to the ones that take place in civilization.

BSG chooses to do this though, and emphasizes it. Perhaps it is just RDM's experience with Star Trek, that uses mostly sets, and almost no real locations, so the cameras are all static, like on a soap opera. Most shows have moved away from this over a decade ago, and have looked like BSG (although not as shakey as BSG) for a very long time.

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A lot of your are missing the whole point.

It's not done to create a documentary or "the camera person is really there" effect...

It's done to mimic the natural visual response you would have. The way YOU would see something.

You don't just stand perfectly still and slowly pan your vision around. It jumps and moves as you go from visual cue to visual cue.

Also, we generally call it "free shooting" or "Shoulder shots" (as in the camera is just resting on your shoulder).

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ALSO - - isn't it supposed to go unoticed? If this were a true art instead of something that annoyed the viewer you would see less complaints about it.

Your eyes will do the "moving around" on their own. I don't bob up and down with binoculars zomming in/out while looking out of the window to get a sensation of it being more real.

I just find it lame. Some guy thought of it, everyone else jumped on the bandwagon.

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I can't stand that style of shooting. it's just so distracting to me and makes it hard to enjoy the show. The movie Earthquake: 10.5 had the shaky camera with the pop zooms and people constantly walking in front of the camera, while the camera is shaking and zooming, making it very painful for me to enjoy.

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It's starting to annoy me a bit when onboard the Galactica cause they over-do it. In season 1 it was very good but they're going too far with it now. It looks much more natural in the CGI-shots, ironically. Maybe because in a battle scene in space it seems natural it should be very chaotic.

______________________
If you can't say anything bad about yourself I'm not interested.

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I can:t remember then using it in the regular scenes, I only remember the CGI shots. I think it helps the CGI, at least.

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[deleted]

"I was wondering if it is called anything."

It's called "Alzheimer". It used to be very popular among aging cinematographers, until Stanley Kubrick invented the steadycam in the late 1970's.

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''...It used to be very popular among aging cinematographers, until Stanley Kubrick invented the steadycam in the late 1970's''

You should at least try to appear to know what you're talking about - the 'Steadicam' was not invented by Stanley Kubrick, but was actually invented by Philadelphian cameraman Garrett Brown in the mid-70's.

Initially named the "Brown Stabilizer", it was later renamed to Steadicam and the system was 1st used on 'Bound for Glory' in 1976 and subsequently on 'Rocky' in the same year, Kubrick didn't use it until 'The Shining' in 1980.

PG.

''...a little whimsical in the brain-pan''

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It's called 'lazy film-making'.

|Men of broader intellect know that there is no sharp distinction betwixt the real and the unreal.|

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the first tv show to do it was "Hill Street Blues" which was before NYPD blue

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"Just to be picky: Firefly did it first."

If we are talking just within the world of sci-fi 'Attack of the Clones' did it first.

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I doubt it Hill street blues was made in the 70's

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