MovieChat Forums > Britz (2007) Discussion > Reaction to Epilogue (spoilers)

Reaction to Epilogue (spoilers)

posted 15 years ago by HerrSweeny
7 replies | jump to latest

I only managed to watch the last two hours or so on BBC America and I have to say I found the movie interesting, if a little thin in showing the main character's change of heart (I seriously thought she was trying to infiltrate the terrorist outfit until she went to the house in London).

My primary objection, however, was to the closing commentary (her suicide video was great, nonetheless).

"The 7/7 bombers were motivated by a sense of injustice faced by Muslims."

Basically, Britons/Americans/Westerners are to blame. Can't we go a little bit further than that, perhaps? How about people with psychological disorders? People who have issues with their identities as a minority in a foreign country? Blowing yourself and others up, even if it is semi-religiously motivated, is simply not sane.

"81% of British Muslims think the War on Terror is War on Islam."

To that 81%: why would anyone even be tempted to associate terror with Islam?

"91% of British Muslims think the War on Terror has increased the threat of terrorism."

I think the results are too early to call on this one, but to the 91%: Just who would that threat of terrorism come from?

"Young Muslims feel bills directed at them."

As long as the bills aren't written specifically for Muslims, they have no more reason to be outraged than anyone else in the UK. On that note, the encroachment on everyone's civil liberties is disturbing, but how could anyone think that a suicide attack is actually going to improve the situation? (Again...mental illness).

"We cannot lock people up just because someone says they are terrorists."

No duh, Sherlock.

[–] mmattagirl 15 years ago

I think the vast majority of native British people are simply sick to death of muslim this, muslim that, and having muslims and islam rammed down their throats day after day, item after item on the news. Put yourself in the place of the host nation.

They awake one day and find themselves with a whole host of hostile, demanding, alien foreigners in their midst. They are informed by their government, whom they expected to place their interests first, that they are now living in UK plc, a vibrant multi-cultural society, where they will be expected to take a back seat to foreign immigrants, and where - and this is of crucial importance - if they complain they will be condemned as racist, bigoted, hateful, and will possibly find themselves, if employed in the public sector at least, out of work and unemployable.

And then the attacks start - and eventually arrive in London, of course. And various plans for future attacks are discovered and only prevented by sheer luck from causing more mayhem and murder. However, the threat is always there. And don't forget, the ""Great British Public" have suffered from similar disturbances for decades during the IRA problems. The whole nation is suffering from terror fatigue, IMHO.

Do you wonder, when ordinary working class people, and quite a lot of middle class professionals too are finding their quality of life significantly deteriorated, that they simply couldn't care less how the problem is dealt with. They just want their country back, they want room to move once more, they don't want to have to compete with foreign incomers for every single job, flat, house, space, they don[t want their countryside built over to accommodate incomers, and they don't want to be crowded to death on their small, confining little island. And I dont blame them!!

[–] jack-bowman 15 years ago

mmatagirl, an old lady, demonstrating the brilliant acuity of her political insight, offers us this:

I think the vast majority of native British people are simply sick to death of muslim this, muslim that, and having muslims and islam rammed down their throats day after day, item after item on the news. Put yourself in the place of the host nation.

They awake one day and find themselves with a whole host of hostile, demanding, alien foreigners in their midst. They are informed by their government, whom they expected to place their interests first, that they are now living in UK plc, a vibrant multi-cultural society, where they will be expected to take a back seat to foreign immigrants, and where - and this is of crucial importance - if they complain they will be condemned as racist, bigoted, hateful, and will possibly find themselves, if employed in the public sector at least, out of work and unemployable.

And then the attacks start - and eventually arrive in London, of course. And various plans for future attacks are discovered and only prevented by sheer luck from causing more mayhem and murder. However, the threat is always there. And don't forget, the ""Great British Public" have suffered from similar disturbances for decades during the IRA problems. The whole nation is suffering from terror fatigue, IMHO.

Do you wonder, when ordinary working class people, and quite a lot of middle class professionals too are finding their quality of life significantly deteriorated, that they simply couldn't care less how the problem is dealt with. They just want their country back, they want room to move once more, they don't want to have to compete with foreign incomers for every single job, flat, house, space, they don[t want their countryside built over to accommodate incomers, and they don't want to be crowded to death on their small, confining little island. And I dont blame them!!

A suggestion. A recasting of the rant by the majestically gifted mmatagirl/bertrambunter …

I think the vast majority of native Iraqi people are simply sick to death of America this, America that, and having America and Americanism rammed down their throats day after day, item after item on the news. Put yourself in the place of the host nation.

They awake one day and find themselves with a whole host of hostile, demanding, alien foreigners in their midst. They are informed by their government, whom they expected to place their interests first, that they are now living in US Corp, a vibrant multi-cultural society, where they will be expected to take a back seat to invaders, and where - and this is of crucial importance - if they complain they will be shot, tortured or raped, and will possibly find themselves, if employed in the public sector at least, out of work and unemployable.

And then the attacks start - and eventually arrive in Abu Ghraib, of course. And various plans for future attacks are discovered and only prevented by sheer luck from causing more mayhem and murder. However, the threat is always there. And don't forget, the Iraqi people have suffered from similar disturbances for decades, all paid for by the USA. The whole Iraqi nation is suffering from terror fatigue, IMHO.

Do you wonder, when ordinary working class people, and quite a lot of middle class professionals too are finding their quality of life significantly deteriorated, that they simply couldn't care less how the problem is dealt with. They just want their country back, they want room to move once more, they don't want to have to compete with foreign incomers … And I dont blame them!!

mmatagirl: you were pathetic as “betrambunter”. Now, you’re just stupid and sad.

[–] HerrSweeny 15 years ago

It seems like you have chosen personal attacks and dramatic blabber over cogent responses to mmatagirl. I'm not a party to that spat so I can't really go beyond what you have given me here.

However, I think that even your point of view is misguided. I am not happy with what has gone on in Iraq either, but I think little if any of your post reflects the situation there.

Under all of the conditions you lay out, why wouldn't we be seeing a rise in terror attacks and resistance to the American Occupation? I can't imagine it is too difficult there to sneak some explosives into the country and blow one's self up among soldiers. Instead, like a civilized people, the Iraqis have politically addressed the issue of American Occupation.

Back to the topic of this thread, the democratic process in Iraq shows just how absurd are UK-based terrorists that attack civilians. It is insane to commit a terrorist/suicide attack and even those people supposedly under the most pressure to do so (Iraqis) are increasingly not.

[–] jack-bowman 14 years ago

HerrSweeny has an opinion. Here is his opinion:

It is insane to commit a terrorist/suicide attack and even those people supposedly under the most pressure to do so (Iraqis) are increasingly not.

Well, that hasn't turned out to be even slightly true, has it herrsweeny? If it had been, we wouldn't have been burying so many young Americans these past many years.

Would you care to amend your opinion?

[–] HerrSweeny 14 years ago

I would be more than happy to stand corrected, but your statement alone does nothing to disprove mine. Mine did not speak to whether American troops are being killed, but rather how and by whom. If you showed me something that indicates that Iraqi natives are ramping up suicide attacks (as opposed to improvised explosive devices, etc.) against American soldiers, I would definitely reconsider my comments.

To be honest, I have not been following the situation very closely since posting my original message. At that time, it seemed to me that most significant suicide attacks were being committed against Iraqis both in public (markets, mosques, etc.) and at Iraqi government locations. Furthermore, it had been suggested that at least some of the suicide bombers were from neighboring countries. Thus my point was that given the apparent stress under which Iraqis live, fewer than one might have expected have resorted to suicide attacks. Comparing their stress or motivation for carrying out suicide attacks with that experienced by Muslims in Britain is, on the face of it, laughable.

Good for you on following up though!

[–] HerrSweeny 15 years ago

I think you are alienating the people that you are trying to convince.

As it seems you don't live in the UK, I don't think you can speak for what they are faced with "day after day". Also, you didn't really respond to anything I had to say.

However, I do agree that instances of politically correct retribution by employers and government agencies is troubling. We all need to grow some thick skins and judge people by their work-related functions, not their political or personal leanings.

Also, I am completely ignorant of the state of urban planning in the UK, but I think you hit on a good point: quality of life is ultimately more important to the average citizen than *purely* economic growth.

[–] mmattagirl 15 years ago

If you are speaking to me, sweeney, no, since you ask, I do not currently live in the UK. I am however, a dual US/UK citizen, and have spent approximately half my life in each place, excepting some time spent living and working in various EU countries, and some muslim ones, too (approx a total of 8 years). I own property in both places (and pay a load of bloody tax, too), and also vote in both places. The Uk half of my large extended family are still mostly living there, and have become, over the past five years (since I have been back in the US) part of the large numbers of totally disillusioned 'day after day' host to which you refer.

I'm sorry to have to tell you, but I fear the numbers/demographics involved in this topic are simply overwhelming. London was the center of a huge empire, and naturally always had a certain number of foreigners living there - by marriage, studying, carrying on business. London has always to a certain extent been a melting pot - when NYC, e.g. was still New Amsterdam, London had its share of foreigners, some racially different, others not. Similar can be said for the other large industrial cities of the UK as they developed.

However, what has happened over the past decade or so has amounted to an invasion - in fact, it is regarded by some 'experts' in the matter as an even larger, more intrusive and more unsettling invasion than the Norman Conquest. It took the English a whole millenium to forge itself into a viable entity, following 1066 - through civil wars (not just the big one - there were plenty of others) social upheavals, starvation, forced industrialization, rural hardship,a short military dictatorship - Cromwell - wars, transportations, empire building, world wars, but all the time people knew where they stood, and knew that the country was their home. Many English people no longer feel that way, and it is causing trouble. Of course it is causing trouble - and I have seen this for myself while working 10+ years under contract to the NHS. Many people without the means to insulate themselves from the worst effects of these government coerced changes are finding that they are at the back of the line when it comes to government help, jobs, accommodation, educational opportunities - and these are the very people that successive governments since WWII have been encouraging to be dependent. It's as if they have beckoned with one hand, and slammed the door in their faces with the other.

Many, many people, out of sheer desperation, are now expressing an interest in the BNP, and not only the poor working classes, either. There would be no need for the existence of the BNP if the government would only enforce the laws as they stand.

And the worst aspect of all, even worse than the crime, the violence, the dirt, the failing social, educational and health services, the insupportable overcrowding, is the inability to speak out about it, for fear of losing employment (esp in the public sector - and I have myself seen this happen, so know for a fact it is true) or fear of arrest for 'hate speech', and just general fear of reprisals from those who know they have the backing of the PC government in their actions.

Some people will disagree, some will attack me in personal and vile terms, but I know what I know, and I at least am free to express my opinion, thanks to the first amendment of that much derided and despised (by Brits) US Constitution.

BTW, if you want to get an idea of just how overcrowded the tiny British Isles are now, imagine if you will, 12 or 13 extra people with you wherever you go.

In the street, in your office, in your classroom, in your parking lot, in your car, in the bedroom, next time you're taking a shower - then imagine how you would feel if many of them spoke not a word of your language and shared none of your traditions or culture...People who object to that are not xenophobic as much as bewildered.

Well, anyway, must go - although I am officially retired I still like to keep my hand in from time to time.