MovieChat Forums > Sugar (2009) Discussion > Kind of disappointed (spoilers)

Kind of disappointed (spoilers)


I'm a huge baseball fan and I loved the first 2/3 of this movie. It gave a glimpse into a part of baseball that is not seen by many of us and, with the increasing influx of Latin American players, is an incredibly important part of the game.

I also understood what they were trying to show when he left the team and went to NYC and how he found the joy of playing at the very end. But why the abrupt change of heart for Sugar? His season started great, he got hurt and struggled a bit and then that's it? He gives up? If he had been struggling in the minors for couple of years, like his freind who got cut from the team, it would have made sense. But he was playing pro ball for a few months, he's 20 years old and after one speed bump he gives up? Again, if they had shown that he had lost his love for the game or been completely disillusioned by the hardcore business of pro baseball it would have made sense but I didn't think there was enough of that to justify what happened at the end of the movie.

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I think his disillusion was left unsaid, but still evident. I think most of the best parts of the movie was those not spoken. You could feel the stress of the players, yet they never talked about it. Pro ball wasn't as fun as the training farm or even at the end when he played along with those who ended up like him. That you could feel by watching it alone.

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OP, another poster michaelflatley basically said the same thing as you. I have my own ideas about why Azucar's actions made sense for him, and what his reasons were. I'd like to hear more from other people because there could be all sorts of viewpoints on this.

I'm curious, if you were the writer, how would you write the script after Azucar is replaced as a starter and made a reliever and on to the end?

To ignore evil is to become an accomplics on this.e to it. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

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I think it was the language barrier more than anything else that made Sugar rethink what he wanted from life. He knew virtually no English when he went to Iowa, and while he's learning, it's obviously difficult for him. And no one around him, except his Latino teammates, speak Spanish. I was amazed that the family he stayed with were as bad with Spanish as he was with English -- and were there no high school students who were baseball fans in that town studying Spanish in school? So they could try to speak to him? And the coach also appeared clueless that there was a language (and therefore an understanding/empathy) problem. It's not just a matter of facts and data (ordering eggs for breakfast, for instance), but saying how you feel, discussing life, etc., that Sugar can't manage in English. And when he gets to New York and is in a Spanish-speaking neighborhood, he's so much happier.

I also think there was an issue with competitiveness. Sugar reacted so badly to a younger player coming in an replacing him as a starter, I think because up to that moment he had always been the best and he simply had no idea how to deal with the possibility of having to work at continuing to be the best. I think it must be similar to the feeling of high school students who are the valedictorians of their class, then they go to Harvard and they're surrounded by classmates who were also valedictorians. Maybe they never had to study in high school, but now they have to learn how in order to do anywhere as well as they did in high school. That can be a shock. (Something like that happened to me when I went to college, so I know how it feels when doing something that used to be really easy and now takes work. I dropped out of college for a couple of years because of that.)

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I can't believe major league teams aren't better equipped to handle their latin players who don't speak english when they first come to the US. With the numbers of talented players coming from that part of the world you'd think they would invest in a translator for each minor league team or something. The fact that they may take the chance on losing the next Pedro Martinez because the kid is homesick and can't order eggs at a restaurant is mind boggling to me.

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are you serious? every team has a translator. and every team has specialists who help acclimatise the players to the culture shock.

major league teams invest heavily in their players (investments) at the single A level

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I guess I would have liked to have seen Sugar start working a little harder to try and get his job back. This was his dream, he was one of the few kids that got out of the DR and had the chance to make it big and he just gave up because of a bad few weeks? His friend who got cut from the team earlier in the season gave it all up but at least he had given it a shot for a few seasons.

I guess for me it was just about time. If he plays two or three seasons and isn't making any progress or is still frustrated by living in the US then giving it all up makes sense but to do so that quickly is what I would change.

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I think OP has a point that it seems Sugar got discouraged too quickly, my husband said that too. But this is a movie and it has to follow a certain dramatic arc within a couple of hours – depending on the story you want to tell. I call it the C.S.I. factor – criminal cases take weeks/years to be solved in real life, they cut out all the boring stuff in tv and the movies so it gets solved in an hour. And the movie Boden/Fleck are telling isn’t really about Sugar’s ascendance as a ballplayer, although it might seem that way at the start of the movie. We’ve seen those movies already, right? Rags to riches, underdog makes good, grand slam home run, final out, bottom of the 9th of the World Series? And then the sex scandals, the alcohol, drugs, criminal acts, jail, redemption, 2nd chances? Nothing wrong with these familiar formulas – they can even be done well.

But Boden and Fleck aren’t interested in making movies other people have already done. They throw us a curveball – it’s about him alright, but about his growth as a total person – with baseball, but not necessarily being a professional baseball player, being a very important part of him.


To ignore evil is to become an accomplice to it. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

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(Marc Ri, would you please consider changing the name of this thread? You say you liked 2/3 of SUGAR, but “kind of disappointed” implies you were disappointed in the whole movie or at least the majority of it – and this thread is always highlighted on SUGAR’s home page. Not your fault, but I think it gives people the wrong idea. How about something like “mostly liked, a bit disappointed,” “kinda disappointed in the ending,” or something?)

I didn’t speak directly to the point about whether Miguel went through enough stuff to give him reason to make his decision to leave professional baseball behind.

I APOLOGIZE, THIS IS GOING TO BE LONG.

It’s hard enough for American kids to be rookies – just the pressure of knowing you have to compete with a lot of other talented people to make it, and that there’s a very high chance you won’t. SJR5-1 makes an excellent point about the big fish/little pond and little fish/big pond comparison – it’s hard enough if you’re speaking the same language, of the same race, of the same country. Kids have a hard enough time being the new kid in school. What’s it like being a rookie?

It’s not a familiar physical setting like high school or college. I don’t know how many friendships are developed at that early stage until after the first cuts. It must feel very lonely even in the middle of a lot of other people. Shoeless Jackson went back home after his first day, as an illiterate Southern country boy he wasn’t comfortable in the city among city boys. I don’t remember whether I read it in an article or heard it in a DVD featurette, but Derek Jeter (!) cried every night when he first became a rookie because he had such a hard time adjusting. Today everybody’s so hardened and tough it’s hard to imagine that happening with anybody who grew up in the U.S.

I think Americans underestimate how much of a problem not speaking the majority language is. If we travel, the majority of us expect local people to cater to us and speak English or we’re used to being on tour groups with guides and translators. How many of us really bother to learn a few phrases of Italian? I have in-laws who had a horrible time in Italy because they went on their own, knew no Italian, and couldn’t communicate. They’re not going to go back any time soon – and they’re Italian Americans. I took Spanish in high school and a little in college, I’m nowhere near fluent. It is *so* frustrating not being able to communicate the basics, to be searching my brain for a Spanish word I know that’s close enough to what I want to say.

If I have trouble communicating something as simple as what I want to eat, how can I say how/what I’m feeling/thinking? In interviews, the filmmakers say a lot of Latin American ballplayers like to go to fast food places because they have pictures of the food and they can just point to it – but then they’re asked if they want to super-size it, do they want fries, what size drinks, etc. They pick it up eventually, but it’s another example of what gets in their way, irritants that add up.

If you haven’t been, imagine yourself in a situation where you are the only person of your color in a place in a country completely the opposite of what you’re used to, everybody speaks their language, you don’t speak theirs and they don’t speak yours. Say you’re a 19 year old senior, white guy from Manhattan, then you’re in the steppes of Mongolia where everybody around you are brown and live in tents with no electricity and modern conveniences, and herd horses. You’re expected to pull your own weight and you’re not treated special just because you’re white and American.

That’s the kind of dislocation people immigrating from places like the Dominican Republic, other parts of Latin America and the world, feel – especially if they’re from the country or small villages. Here the climate is different, the houses/neighborhoods are different, people socialize differently. At first, it’s new and interesting, but then you start missing home.

So Miguel leaves his home, his family – his support system of abuela, mama, sister, brother, his girlfriend, Uncle Frank, his village where he was the local hero, the people who run the baseball academy, his country – it’s not an easy thing to do this even for fame, fortune (would it be so easy for you to do without even thinking for a second?) and for his dream, not exactly knowing what it looked like. And with the heavy burden that he wasn’t only doing it for him but for his whole family, his girlfriend, his village. If he failed, it wasn’t just going to be a personal failure. He would have failed all of them. American rookies have barely a wisp of that kind of pressure riding on their shoulders.

Spring training with all the competition was hard work, but at least there were a lot of Dominicans, Venezuelans, and other Latin American ballplayers who spoke Spanish. And maybe things would have turned out differently if Miguel had been assigned to a 1-A team that had a lot of Spanish-speaking players or that was located somewhere where there was a large Spanish-speaking population where Miguel could have found a community – what he had been missing since leaving the D.R. .

Instead he went to the Bridgetown Swing. At first it was great, when he was winning, and his friends Jorge and Brad were there. Then Miguel suffered an injury, which was frustrating. Remember Miguel was only 19, not exactly mature and experienced being on top of his emotions. The brain isn’t even fully developed until 25 years of age. Jorge was cut. Brad was sent up. He wasn’t that close with the Venezuelans. He had lost his stuff, and Salvador had taken his place as the favorite of the team and the fans. He has to adjust from a small crowd of adoring neighborhood fans back home to a stadium full of white people who felt free to insult him and his performance. My husband says pitching, more than any other position, is a very psychological thing. It’s very easy to lose your confidence, and very hard to get it back.

So Miguel was a stranger in a strange land. He left his family and country, he left the majority of Latin American players when he went to Iowa, Once Jorge left and Brad was gone, Miguel had no one he could talk with. He was metaphorically and physically isolated on the farm, not matter how kind and well-meaning the Higginses were. He couldn’t even walk into town.

For Dominican boys, baseball is the dream, but is it a choice? It’s like a mandate – the only way to leave the D.R. and get out of poverty. Gradually, Miguel got exposed to the business side of baseball. He gets signed at 16 for $15,000; Salvador gets signed for $115,000 with his manager getting a 40% cut; Brad gets a $1 million signing bonus. Once a kid is chosen by the baseball academy and quits his high school education, he has nothing to fall back on if he fails in baseball. Miguel realizes the huge chasm between his future and Brad’s when they talk in the locker room. Miguel sees how baseball impersonally treats players like cogs in a machine, if they don’t perform because they don’t have enough talent or are injured – they’re out.

I think for Miguel, all of this together was enough for him to decide to take his future into his own hands, to pro-actively make decisions – not passively wait for the Swing to decide his fate. Maybe another person would have decided to stay. But for Miguel, he was much happier being in a Dominican community, playing baseball for the sheer joy of it, making furniture – another of his passions, making enough money to send back home, and having his freedom.




To ignore evil is to become an accomplice to it. - Martin Luther King, Jr.

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This was his dream, he was one of the few kids that got out of the DR and had the chance to make it big and he just gave up because of a bad few weeks?

I like many others had the some reaction as the OP. The story just didn't ring true or at the very least the filmmakers did a poor job of explaining why this kid quit so easily. This has been a great thread and I'm sure this is just the kind of discussion the filmmakers wanted to precipitate. I have a few random thoughts and then I will give you my take on what happened:

1. Although this seems to be almost a documentary type film, I think they are taking more liberties from realism then it appears at first. They are showing many things only as they would appear to Miguel. This is why you are not seeing a lot of interpreters or coaches talking to the players in Spanish. Or even pitching coaches or trainers after the injury working with Miguel. In realty those things happened but for someone straight from the DR it probably did seem like the team was abandoning him.

2. As someone else mentioned they probably decided not to extend his minor league time to something more realistic like three seasons just for simplicity. He was portrayed as a mid level prospect. The team would not of given up on him for at least a couple more years.

3. Those of us that are baseball geeks know that MLB organizations don't invest millions of dollars in player development just to ignore their problems that they all have at the start of their minor league career. However, the film wasn't made just for baseball geeks.


Back to the OP quote, "This was his dream....."

I think you have missed some of the subtle clues in the film. Miguel had more of a passion for woodworking than he did for baseball and this is why he quit IMO. He couldn't even bring himself to say it because he placed so much pressure on himself to better his family financially. I think the point of the movie is to show the stark difference culturally between the USA and most other countries in the way we(the USA) overvalue compensation and our careers. In other words what good is money, if you are not happy in your work.

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My interpretation as to why he quit was a bit different compared to most of the posters here. I think it's because when you grow up in that environment, you don't really have a lot of "life" tools to succeed. Of course, when many of us face adversity, we just try that much harder to succeed. Others don't have a "model" to learn that from, and Sugar didn't have a Dad. I guess I thought of "Boyz in the Hood", where Trey had his Daddy and he came out fine, but his friends didn't have that kind of guidance.

In any event, I thought it was sad that he gave up so quickly.

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I respectfully disagre with many of your points, spinaned:

You say that the filmmakers did a poor job of explaining why this kid quit so easily. I don't think they needed to explain it. It's what kids do. Remember, he's only 20. In fact, Sugar couldn't even explain it himself, when asked by his mother or anyone else.

Think of the amount of intelligent college students who fail out each year, not because they're not smart enough to do the work, but because they can't adapt to their new environment. Now multiply this feeling of "I can't adapt" by a thousand, and that's what you have with Sugar, who isn't simply away from his parents at college, he's away from everything he knows in another country.

You also say that baseball teams protect their minor league investments that they spent a lot of money on. I worked for the Altoona Curve a few years ago, and they didn't have a translator on their team for the Latin players like Ronnie Paulino or Jose Castillo. They struggled with small-town America just like Sugar did, and they had no one but each other to help out. Plus, remember the scene in the movie when Sugar doesn't say how much he signed for. He simply lies and says, "Yeah, I signed for around the same amount of money." This leads us to believe that he, like most Latin players, signed for much less than their American counterparts. Most of these players just want to get off the island, so they'll sign for much less.

I think that this movie did an amazing job of portraying a young fish out of the water who just wants to find happiness. Like all of us, the happiness he finds is with others who are much like himself.

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"Derek Jeter (!) cried every night when he first became a rookie because he had such a hard time adjusting. Today everybody’s so hardened and tough it’s hard to imagine that happening with anybody who grew up in the U.S. "


It was in his auto-biography. He had one of the most miserable rookie years of any top prospect (He hit like .205, made over 30(!) errors. Like many, he almost quit. But he had a very strong support system (Everyone knows about his parents, there influence, etc.) and he perservered.


Having said that, I personally feel like Sugar gave up too easily. I understand the language barrier problem, but he was not alone. He had his teammates who shared that problem as well. And he had his mother who seemed to be very loving and concerned for him. He had the family from Iowa who treated him well. I feel like immaturity played a big part in him quitting. I kept forgetting how young he was. Honestly, talent is obviously important to making it pro, but heart is important also. You get guys, pitchers, who throw junk but still make it pro.

I didn't get the sense like he enjoyed playing baseball anymore, that was probably why he gave up, now that I really think about it. His whole life has been baseball, probably not by choice. He was just sick of playing, maybe. That's the best explanation I can think of.

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I agree with other posts here. I also thought he gave up rather quickly, but the truth is he was really young, he didn't overcome the language barrier, and when his friend left, he had no one to talk to. I feel like these issues worked their way into his game and things really started to go downhill. I think he may have even said this, but he was afraid, too, of being cut like his friend, and in that respect he wanted to leave the team on his own terms. It seems like the team had control of him for a while, going back to the Dominican Republic and the farm school there, and here he was finally taking control of his own life. I'm also not convinced MLB was his dream. When he told his mom he'd left, she was disappointed and put her focus on a younger son. I think he may have been feeling financial responsibility for his family back home, so they had control of him too, and him just abandoning the team was a way of freeing himself of that.

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Baseball was something pushed on him, although he was very good at it. he felt deeply the loss of his father, and wood-working was his connection to him. My guess is that would be his future. BUT. that's another movie,right?

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you don't get that much time. especially as a pitcher, you won't last very long in a minor league system getting rocked when there's another arm waiting in line (the young kid who came and took his job while sugar had the towel on his face). the writing was on the wall to him since he believed he lost his stuff. like the guy he met at home before he left who claimed he could throw heat for portland back in the day, he was destined to be sent back home to tell stories about his moment in the sun. if he ran away, at least he could stay in america and use the opportunity he had to make more money as a carpenter than he ever could working a *beep* job in the dr. why do you think the aforementioned younger pitcher waved him goodbye secretly? he knew what was going on, so obviously sugar wasn't the first player to ditch his team before he got deported.

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you know nothing about baseball apparently. a 20 year old pitcher who throws 95 m/h would be given 3 or 4 years to learn how to throw (location, most efficient delivery, new pitches, arm endurance, and most importantly confidence). it is almost unheard of for a pitcher younger than 23 to be a starter in the big leagues. it takes a LONG time to develop good pitching. baseball clubs NEVER rush their pitchers because they know how easily they can get injured. take chamberlain and the yankees for example.

a pitcher is completely different from all other baseball players. their development is taken very cautiously. most pitchers dont come into their own into their mid 20s.

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[deleted]

You don't get the point of the movie.... It's pretty clear in the last scene/montage at the neighborhood baseball game where you see a dozen players just like him stating where they played. He's a dime a dozen - there are 100 guys just like coming in every year - and he figured this out quickly (a lot faster than most players). The arrival of the new kid (who was a better pitcher) solidified this realization in his mind. Sugar was a realist.

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sugar was no realist. he was a defeatist.

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I agree with the original post. I think the problem is that set-up leading to the decision was not strong enough. Either the filmmakers needed to make his ambivalence more clear leading up to his decision or his disappointment needed to be stronger. I put in my own explanations for his decision, as have other posters here, but based on the discussion I don't think there's any question it's a weakness in the story.

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[deleted]

i think, OP, you aren't disappointed in the movie so much as disappointed in sugar himself -- for being a "quitter". i felt the same way, so did sugar's mom, and the filmmakers probably intended that viewers feel it.

i think sugar's ambivalence WAS made quite clear, you could see it in his eyes all along, and in his actions (temper tantrums, etc).

the film's point, IMO, is sugar DID NOT HAVE WHAT IT TAKES to become a pro. as another poster said he was "a dime a dozen". hundreds of guys on teams in the DR, and on up the 4-5 minor league tiers in the US.

the film shows that to make the majors you need long, hard work for years, AND to learn english, deal with cultural issues, cutthroat competition, huge pressure, AND not get distracted by partying & women. the ones who make it have to REALLY, REALLY want it & sacrifice a ton. they need that DRIVE which really, not that many people have. and at a very young age or else it's too late.

i wanted him to give it more time & was annoyed with him, but even so he may not have made it. i think he realized he just wasn't THAT into it. there's a moment at the game at the end where he seems to be thinking (ok, i'm interpreting his expression) "gee, maybe i could still go back, maybe i made a mistake....nah, i'm happier here".

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[deleted]

I disagree completely. Though the build-up to his quitting was subtle, it was there. It was evident that he was not enjoying playing the way he did in the DR, that he struggled with the culture and language, and that he wasn't handling the pressure of professional ball well. There was foreshadowing throughout, like when he asked Johnson what he would do if he weren't a baseball player. There were definitely hints that he was unsatisfied and didn't think he had it in him to make it to the majors.
Several people have posted that he gave up too quickly on "his dream." Who says playing professionally was his dream? I saw it more of his family's dream for him. He liked playing baseball, but he seemed to enjoy carpentry more. Baseball was what he had and was expected to do, but in the end, he realized that it's not what he wanted for himself. The final shots of him at the game indicated that he was much happier playing baseball for fun than for a living.

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." - Benjamin Franklin

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He didn't form any relationships with anyone. Everyone around him only cared about how well he played baseball. And when he started playing badly, people turned on him pretty quickly. For instance, the fans started shouting "You suck Santos," when he had a couple of rough games(Which mirrored the taunts that the one player received before he was kicked off the team abruptly.). Even the people he lived with in Iowa only remembered how well the players they housed could play, they never talked about them as people. When Sugar broke down, the best they could do was offer him a pat on the back. And when people did want to connect with him, the language and cultural barriers got in the way. Which evidenced in the scene with the high school kids, who had a totally different experience growing up than he did.

Sugar was also a target of ethnocentrism. A racist white guy picked a fight with him in the bar. When he threw the pitch that hit the batter, the batter stated, " You don't even belong here. Go back to Puerto Rico." Which despite being wrong about the fact that Puerto Rico isn't a part of the United States and that Sugar was from the Dominican Republic, also was the sentiment that the film was portraying when it showed the old man wearing a patriotic t-shirt yelling at Sugar, while he was in the audience(Also, when the baseball player stated that he was being kicked off the team, he was wearing a patriotic t-shirt as well.).

Sugar understood that the system exploited him. Which I think was the point of him asking the player what he would do if he couldn't play baseball. The American who went to Stanford could fall back on his education. Sugar, and players, like Sugar didn't have any power. His only hope was to play baseball really well, which meant that if he wanted to stay playing, he was going to have to follow the system's rules. There were always people who were just as good as him, or better than him, that were waiting in the wings. Sugar would have to put up with being treated like a child, even he wanted to stay on the team. The way the coach talked to him after he destroyed the water cooler was incredibly condescending.

When Sugar finally made it to New York, he was able to live on his own terms. He finally met people that saw him as a person. That was why the owner of the wood shop brought up "Vic Power." He didn't care that Vic Power was a good player or even that he was Puerto Rican, he was his favorite player because of the person that he was, not because of the game he played.


Ultimately, it wasn't worth the indignity Sugar had to suffer for him to stay playing baseball. He probably wasn't going to make in the majors, and life sucked in the minors. The pitcher that was replacing him knew that as well, which is why he lied for Sugar when Sugar left. It may seem like a sad ending or a sad fact of life (It is.), but I think it was ultimately a hopeful movie, considering that people did help Sugar, and he did sort of "make it" in the end, by connecting with people around him who cared about him.

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Didn't read all the responses but the reason he left was not because he was struggling entirely. He says to his girlfriend back home that he doen't like how they treated his friend and how they just cut him loose while he was injured and then he says to his friend he wasn't just going to wait for them to cut him.
I think what the movie showed was that while Sugar loved baseball he didn't enjoy it while playing it professionally. It made him angry and led him to take painkillers. In the last scene we see him enjoying himself again because it is once more just a game.
Maybe the message is don't take the things you love too seriously or you will lose that love. Sugar was happy at the end. He wasn't happy when he was playing with the team

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To me, in a scene in NY summed up everything. He stopped to watch a youth baseball game in a park, and the camera goes to Miguel's face. Instead of being happy at remembering his own youth and dreams of success in USA , he realizes how disillusioned he really was. He has to search for something else to make him content.

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