Stauffenberg is the most well known of the anti Hitler plotters but there were others. Some even went to England before the war started and met with Churchill -
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=8227
Adolf Hitler addresses the German nation after the attempted assassination - www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpCwuCzud-E
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Aww....you sound so sad that Germany lost the war.
"Someone has been tampering with Hank's memories."
And you are happy that Stalin who killed millions of people before the war even started www.holodomor.org.uk and committed atrocities such as the Katyn massacre www.katyn.org.au won?
People are entitled to ask why the entire democratic world led by Churchill www.heretical.com/miscellx/churchil.html and Roosevelt www.jrbooksonline.com/fdr-scandal-page/fdr.html foamed at the mouth about Hitler being a dictator yet fully supported Stalin who was also a dictator!
They didn't support Stalin idiot. As the saying goes "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." At the time, Churchill and Roosevelt knew there was no way they could stop Stalin and Hitler but since Hitler was the obviously trying to take over the world, they decided to focus on him and since Stalin hated him too, they just let him be.
shareSorry, but you're like dead wrong.
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
Aha, that worked wonders for the Soviets in Afghanistan in the 80's, and for us today, right? By that logic either Al Qaeda or ISIS are our friends (they are enemies). And Iran should be our friend too (they are enemies of both of them).
"At the time, Churchill and Roosevelt knew there was no way they could stop Stalin and Hitler "
Evidence? Wikipedia article on Postdam states that Churchill regretted buying Stalin's rosy tall tales and Roosevelt was an idiot believing him too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Potsdam_Agreement
here, an exact quote: "Two days later, Roosevelt began to admit that his view of Stalin had been excessively optimistic and that "Averell is right.""
Apparently American presidents have a soft spot for Communist leaders (W looking into Putin's "soul").
Plus, state exactly how a country with the atomic bomb can somehow not be able to enforce a tough deal on a country that just lost 20 million soldiers and has no defence against the atomic bomb nor counterattack measure.
"since Hitler was the obviously trying to take over the world"
Evidence again?
Hitler stated in interviews he didn't have any plans to export Nazism to America for he didn't think it would grow outside Germany. His target was Russia, plain and simple. Britain/France declared war on him, hence the western front. Then the USA did. I don't remember Hitler ever attacking either one before that.
"they decided to focus on him and since Stalin hated him too, they just let him be"
That doesn't explain why they ceded half of Europe to stalin after Hitler was dead and Germany defeated. Remember Patton was ordered to retreat to allow the Red Army to occupy enough of Berlin?
Here, educate yourself:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_betrayal
Many eastern european country (baltic ones especially) ended up regretting having fought the Nazis, thinking they would have fared better under them than how they did under Communism ("we fought the wrong devil").
Ahh, hindsight is a beautiful thing isn't it. The fact that Hitler was going around and invading countries without cause is reason enough to think he wanted to take over the world. The best example of all was his failed invasion of Russia itself. A country that they agreed to not invade and while they weren't aligned, they were at least somewhat friendly. As for the atomic bomb, I think it's pretty obvious that they didn't want to threaten to use it, especially since they knew that the Russians were working on their own and when, not if, the figured it out they knew that using it would mean the end of the world as they knew it.
Also, I would like to point out how easy it is to make links clickable now and if you are too lazy to make them clickable I am not going to waste time copying and pasting.
"The fact that Hitler was going around and invading countries without cause "
Hardly. All invaded countries either had German population/territory Germany lost after WWI, or he stated clearly years in advance he was eyeing (U.S.S.R.). Whatever else was due to rescuing Mussolini.
"The best example of all was his failed invasion of Russia itself. A country that they agreed to not invade and while they weren't aligned, they were at least somewhat friendly."
You serious?!!!! Even a simple google search will turn up tons of evidence showing:
- Hitler always eyed Russia for levensraum (it's right there in Mein Kamp)
- The Riventropp treaty was a ruse from both sides to buy time for their own invasions and countermeasures.
"As for the atomic bomb, I think it's pretty obvious that they didn't want to threaten to use it, especially since they knew that the Russians were working on their own"
Evidence? I'll accept a non clickable link even. The Russian were at least 40 years behind the atomic race, and only caught up thanks to eating up half of Germany and its tops scientists (who exactly do you think designed their space shuttles and Migs?)
"I am not going to waste time copying and pasting"
So don't. Do you think I'm trying to convince anyone? I'm only providing my sources out of consistency (I back up my claims). Whatever you care to do or not to do next does not concern me either way (as long as you make it interesting).
Doc80 you don't know what you are talking about. I provided 2 links with lots of info about how Churchill and Roosevelt both supported Stalin the latter a long time before world war 2 even broke out. Here they are again - www.heretical.com/miscellx/churchil.html and www.jrbooksonline.com/fdr-scandal-page/fdr.html If you refuse to face facts and look at the information that is your problem.
You also wrote that Hitler was going around and invading countries. What about Stalin? He was busy invading countries as well. Under his orders the Soviet Union invaded Poland http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_invasion_of_Poland
and Finland in 1939 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War and Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania and Romania in 1940. Even after the soviet-nazi war started in 1941 the USSR invaded Iran - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Soviet_invasion_of_Iran
You criticise Hitler but give Stalin a free pass when he does the same thing - just like Churchill and Roosevelt!
The result of Churchill and Roosevelt's all out support of Stalin - 5 years after world war 2 during the Korean war the Soviet Union under Stalin was supplying communist China and North Korea with arms and ammunition which was used to kill British and American troops - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Union_in_the_Korean_War
Before the July 1944 bomb plot officers were allowed to carry their pistols into meetings with Hitler. Yet not one of these traitors had enough guts to walk up the him and go BANG! - that's all it would have taken.
www.tomatobubble.com/id766.html
I hope that people notice that your sources are nearly all nazi/German apologist and supporting far right positions.
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There is a problem that actually gets touched upon in Valkyrie. The Oath. They all swore to serve Hitler with their lives and even die for him. That's part of the reason the more practical Nazis didn't oppose his decisions. On top of that, even if a traitor was brave enough to do just that, who would handle the remaining party bosses? Goebbels, Gohring, Himmler and the others were as bad or worse and any of them would be appointed Fuhrer after Hitler. The traitor will get gunned down immediately or executed but the war would still continue.
sharePlus, state exactly how a country with the atomic bomb can somehow not be able to enforce a tough deal on a country that just lost 20 million soldiers and has no defence against the atomic bomb nor counterattack measure.
>>> By that logic either Al Qaeda or ISIS are our friends (they are enemies).
Well actually yes, they are the `allies` of USA.
ISIS is the enemy of Russia, so it's the `friend` of USA.
Russia wants Bashar al-Assad gov to stay.
USA and Europe wants to get rid of Bashar.
That's why they support terrorists who wants to overthrow Syrian gov.
It's all about the alternate gas line to Europe that is routed via Syria.
USA is supporting terrorists in Middle East.
Maybe that's why we see beheading and terror propaganda videos produced with the quality of Hollywood movies.
Had I been in FDR's shoes - no aid to Russia, no nauseating propaganda about "our gallant Soviet ally" but the truth. Back the German Resistance instead.
shareWorm in the Apple was a very interesting book. Thank you for the link.
Many of the ideas covering the lead up to the war made me think of the ones in P. Buchanan's book: Churchill, Hitler and the "Unnecessary War".
I copy/pasted the text. One day, with some software, I think I'll make an ebook in case that link goes dead. For the front cover illustration, maybe make a picture of an apple (roughly the shape of Germany) with worms coming out of it (worms' heads in the likenesses of Stauffenberg, Canaris etc.).
Considering the plotters wanted to continue the war against the Soviet Union, the argument that they weren't standing up to Stalin doesn't work. Also if anybody damaged Germany in the war it was Hitler. I am not talking about from an "evil" perspective although that obviously fits too. I am talking about how incredibly incompetent and stupid he was as a military leader. Him sending the 6th army to their death at Stalingrad was reason enough for the military to overthrow him. Mannstein and the other generals knew of the danger and begged Hitler for months to not do it or let them break out, and he forced them to stay there and fight to the death. (They of course surrendered and the vast majority died in the Gulag) Hitler made numerous huge mistakes throughout the war that greatly damaged German's war effort. It is shocking the military didn't kill him at several different times.
It is good for the world that Hitler was an idiot. Had he been intelligent and let the military fight the war with leaders like Mannstein and Raeder in charge, the war could have turned out very differently.
Exactly. History and this movie love to paint guys like Stauffenberg as heroes who were horrified by Hitler's "evil", but they were just convinced he was an incompetent lunatic whose only skill was public speaking, and knew the only chance Germany had of winning the war was taking him out.
sharei would call it resistance.
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