MovieChat Forums > Sucker Punch (2011) Discussion > If you don't like this film...

If you don't like this film...


...I guess you have to consider that it wasn't made FOR you.

It's born from the culture of video-gaming, graphic novels, anime cosplay and, probably, fanservice/hentai.

It contains the multi-layer realities, not dissimilar from a lot of anime which presents dark elements and themes through the face of the fantastical. The special effects and stylized sets are beautiful, very similar to scifi and fantasy video games like Final Fantasy.

People seem to also get upset about the sexualization of the female characters, all of these have obviously never been to a Geek Convention where the majority of cosplayers do wear those kind of sexy-fantasy clothes. As a girl, I found the costumes beautifully stylized and sexy. (Also, it CAN be empowering to show that, to be 'badass' you can still be portrayed as feminine and sexy. Misogyny is NOT the same as sexualized.)

Snyder may be a Geek Fanboy, but he sure knows his intended audience. If you're not them, why are you even complaining?

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What a remarkably well thought-out and well-worded post. I applaud you.

I'd like to echo your words, if I may...

Anyone who's into cosplay knows that the costuming in Sucker Punch is extremely mild compared to what you're likely to see at your average comic book or gaming convention. Detractors in this forum keep calling the girls "scantily clad" in the movie, but I just don't see it. Maybe it's just what you're used to, but I consider them to be duly sexy without being gratuitous at all.

I also love what you said about how sexualization does not necessarily equate to misogyny. Misogyny is an enduring hatred and oppression of women, whereas feminism is about a woman's right to choose -- even when that choice happens to offend your personal sense of propriety.

In that vein, many have expressed doubt that a woman would ever voluntarily choose to dress the way the girls are depicted in Babydoll's deep fanatasies -- that their attire is purely an artifact of a male mind writing the script. Again, clearly they've never attended a convention, where women routinely dress provocatively, not because it's compulsory or to receive a paycheck, but because it's part of the culture, and they enjoy it.

(By the way, welcome to the IMDb forums! I'm glad you joined us.)

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Your Kung Fu is powerless against my Feng Shui.

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I agree with both of you.. The film is made for and made by Fans of these genre in entertainment, the clothes the girls wear might seem OTT to the general public but it's totally in the style that the film is trying (and managed to) capture, one thing I was surprised about was there could have been a game spinoff or graphic novel tied into the characters as it could lend itself to that kinda media easily..



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Fans and style, sure I buy that but lets have a reality check 101 here.

Not THE reason, but one of the reasons is the commercial aspect. The girls look as they do because it sells. That's also the reason for the violence. Without the violence and sex this movie could still be a multilayer mind twister, open for interpretation as it is.

I've been loving too much, caring too little -- TormentoR.

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[deleted]

Violence and sex are the key features for most psychological 'irregularities' and that they are also prominent within most modern Graphic Novels. Hers in particular equates a lobotomy with a rape which, I find, to be an apt comparison psychologically speaking.

Also, If it was intended to be a mass commercial piece of film, why does Snyder in particular only focus on plots and scripts that particularly cater for a single modern culture of people. Watchmen, Suckerpunch, the new Superman. All aimed at the geek community that are use to seeing all the blood and sex that videogames, books and graphic novels contain.

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To answer your last question: directors do not cater to one group in particular (such as a fanbase, like Star Wars and Dune had) because this will lead to commercial failure. Fan bases and such are not big enough to sustain, and they fade away over time. So you need a way to attract new customers.

You can see how a movie like The Matrix attracts martial arts fans (who also enjoyed Mortal Kombat), intellectuals and geeks (who watch a movie from an intellectual angle), and other existential themes (both with violence as well as without as well as similar movies as Inception). The key to its immense success lies in its ability to reach all these groups.

I've been loving too much, caring too little -- TormentoR.

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Tidbit: I cosplayed as Sweetpea for London Comicon last October. I the costumes are awesome and it is very empowering to be able to enter this kind of surreal fantasy that cosplaying brings.

And thank you, I realized that a lot of comments were about how anti-femenist the film was and, as a geek girl myself who absolutely adored the stylization of the costumes and how sexy they were, I wanted to put forward the opposing viewpoint, that it is, indeed, nerdy and sexy at the same time which is perfection.

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"I cosplayed as Sweetpea for London Comicon last October"


Photos or it never happened.




'Then' and 'than' are completely different words and have completely different meanings.

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lol this guy thinks imdb is 4chan. mmmmmmonster fail.

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You don't recognize humor. Midsized fail.



'Then' and 'than' are different words - stop confusing them.

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Female sexiness may not be equated with misogyny, but it is in our patriarchal society where a woman who isn't sexy isn't anything. Female sexiness cannot really be considered a choice until women who do not meet the societal requirements for attractiveness are just as valued as women who are recognized by society as stunning beauties.

Sadly, the inevitable replies to my post that I must be short, fat, ugly, etc etc etc to say such things will only prove my point.

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Seeing as how you posted this two years ago and until now there have been no replies at all, I'd advise against taking up a job as a TV psychic.


Female sexiness may not be equated with misogyny, but it is in our patriarchal society where a woman who isn't sexy isn't anything.


"Isn't anything?" What sort of delusional world are you living in? If the entirety of our society was "being a fashion cover girl," then you might have a point. It's not, and you don't. Society is full of women who are gainfully employed regardless of looks in a broad variety of careers. Go out in public for a while and you will see plenty of women who are not classically beautiful who are nevertheless accompanied by mates and children. Women are totally capable of making it just fine in our society whether they are beautiful or not. It might hinder a career in, say, the film industry, but that's true if you are male, too.

-There is no such word as "alot."

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I would just like to say that I know a few people (myself included) that aren't exactly the "intended audience" but enjoyed this film. The beauty of it isn't just the visual style, but the message it gets across along with all of the layers and symbology. I think that anyone that has an open mind and pays attention instead of just assuming it's all style over substance, could possibly get something out of it.

Funnily enough, my brother is very into video games and anime and didn't like this movie on first viewing. I made him watch it again, though, and then he felt like he "got" it.

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Maybe as a Snyder fan, I tend to see a trend that that films are well known for having a lot of style over substance, which I agree, was done differently with his own material, but I don't mind that, which is why I want to defend the style for those who overlook all the psychological and darker undertones.

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Conversely, I AM part of the intended audience, and I thought it was trite, childish rubbish with a morally compromised and, yes, misogynistic subtext. The sort of film which might have been written by a 13 year old who had only ever read comics, and never anything without pictures.

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There's no sex and there's no violence... it's a stupid PG movie that's boring, repetitive and unoriginal. It could have been fantastic instead it was just... lame.

This movie wanted to be Sin City but ended up being Spy Kids.

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I like all the things the thread started posted, but I just can't seem to get into this movie as much. Though saw it some time ago, il try it again.

I just remember being really exited by the trailers, and then the movie turned me down sour.

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I like all the things the thread started posted, but I just can't seem to get into this movie as much. Though saw it some time ago, il try it again.

I just remember being really exited by the trailers, and then the movie turned me down sour.

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That's fine, not everyone can like this movie. But I would give it at least one more viewing - my brother did not like it the first time he saw it, but he gave it another try and saw much more in it than he did the first time. I'm not saying this is how it would be for everyone who didn't like it initially; just that it's worth a try.

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[deleted]

I watched this movie mainly because I like the work of Emily Browning. My feelings were ambivalent. While I thought it was visually striking, the portrayal of the female characters did make me feel a little uncomfortable. Misogyny's a strong word, but that was the vibe I got - and the fact that many others got that same vibe (going by many of the comments on the different threads on this board) must be more than merely coincidence. I'm not a fan of graphic novels or anime/hentai (I'm not even sure what "fanservice" or "cosplay" actually are), neither am I a feminist sympathiser - although I do enjoy the novels of Virginia Woolf. But I do take exception to your suggestion that, not being a member of Snyder's intended audience, I have no right to comment (you call it "complain"). I wonder if you'd be what Coppola might have considered his "intended audience" for The Godfather. So what if I told you'd no right to an opinion on whether or not that's an accurate portrayal of the ethos and aspirations of turn-of-the-century Italian-American immigrants?

Ps. I rather agree with Murdock204's comment about your username.


"Eat a sandwich. Drink a glass of milk. Do some fvcking thing."

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and the fact that many others got that same vibe (going by many of the comments on the different threads on this board) must be more than merely coincidence.
Whatever helps. I can make the same case against the whole "misogynist" angle by citing how many others didn't get that vibe.

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Your Kung Fu is powerless against my Feng Shui.

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Well, you've just rocked me back on my heels with that reply. I guess I'll have to rethink my entire position on this. You must be a member of your local debating society. What's that you say? Mass debating? Yes, I rather thought you were a mass debator.

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Well, it's true. A lot of other people don't see it the same way you do. Using your own logic, that can't be coincidence, either. Don't get all snooty with me; it's not my fault you employed a circular argument.

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Your Kung Fu is powerless against my Feng Shui.

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Yer patter's mince, big man. So's yer feng shui :-)

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Like I said, whatever helps you.

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Your Kung Fu is powerless against my Feng Shui.

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I was made uncomfortable by the misandry of how sick and evil they made the men out to be.

Give me a list of all the female mental hospitals or female prisons where this kind of twisted sh!t actually goes on.

Get off your soapbox while I play you a tune on the tiniest violin.

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Hahaha. Are you serious?

This doesn't even come close to the levels of Japanese Animation and video-gaming culture. Nor has it got anything to do with cosplay.

Anime series aren't shallow, mindless thrill-less and disgustingly directed stories with a layer of breasts on top. Yes, there is fanservice occasionally, but it accounts for a small amount of screen time, not to mention that it's mostly used as comic relief or in less serious more comedy-oriented series. Unless the one you're watching is complete crap, of course. In that case, you can expect to find giant titties occupying 90% of what's going on. A big example is high-school of the dead. It's utter *beep* but if it's comic relief and breasts that you're looking for, then it's the right show for you.

In short, Anime series contain proper well-developed characters in properly constructed scenarios and plots, with occasional underlying themes that can go anywhere from life and death, to the most unexpected subjects available.

This film doesn't. It has no depth. It has no message. We're not even presented with any explanation on how its fictional world works. One second some teenage girls are acting like total sluts and complaining how they get treated as such by their kidnappers, mob boss, molester, etc... and the other they're fighting off robots and overpowering dragons ten times their size, while appearing seemingly invincible.

To top it all of, the acting is horrible.

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This board makes me want to stop being on the internet.

The fictional world is not the same as the brothel world which is not the same as the real world. There are very obvious background and character shifts between all three of them.

Most of the people that don't like this movie simply don't understand it. It's like you're aggravated your intelligence isn't high enough to comprehend something that isn't spelled out on a lettercard.

There are plenty of messages in this movie - for example, the ones blatantly said by the narrator for folks like yourself.

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Most of the people that don't like this movie simply don't understand it. It's like you're aggravated your intelligence isn't high enough to comprehend something that isn't spelled out on a lettercard.


While I wouldn't go so far as to say this about everyone who doesn't understand the movie, the ones who come around acting like they are totally pissed off that others do understand and get something out of the film seem to fit this description perfectly.

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So you didn't really understand Sucker Punch then? :)

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Your Kung Fu is powerless against my Feng Shui.

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*Rolls Eyes*

This reminds me of the episode of "Family Guy" where Peter complains about how he hates Drive-In theatre and when we see the cutaway, he's facing away from the screen saying "This sucks!".

Besides the recent "Pacific Rim", if there has been ANY other film that wears its anime influence on its sleeve, its Sucker Punch. The story has influences from Kite, Gall Force, and some others that I can't think of right now(PLUG: Check out my review on my blog, "On The Back Of A Dusty Video Box"). The irony is: Sucker Punch had all of the very things you claim are hallmarks of anime: well-developed characters and scenerios, themes, and some fanservice tossed in. I've never gotten video game references and stuff; to me, this movie was strickly anime influenced.

Which is why I wonder why this poster is lying, claiming the movie was shallow, it had no depth, the acting was horrible. Did you even WATCH the film or parrotted the hive mind of hatred that the professional critics wanted to maintain? It's like no one can make up their own mind anymore!

Everytime I hear people complain about the movie, it makes me shake my head. Even if there are females who hate it, where are the men at least(as far as fanservice)? I'm expecting this to be the male counterpart to Twilight, and yet, even men seem to hate it.

I adored this film. Saw it four times in the theatre alone!

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People keep saying the supporting cast members were shallowly-characterized, but I'm not seeing that at all. Sucker Punch's narrative style is pretty much a third-person description of a first-person experience. It's as close as you can get to being first person without making Babydoll narrate. Literally everything in the film is happening from her perspective. The story does not center around the other girls. And so, because of the narrative style, we were never going to get inside the heads of the secondary characters in the first place. Therefore, what we learn about them is going to be limited to what they feel comfortable sharing with a new inmate. Most people would not disclose their life story to a person they've known for less than 5 days, MUCH less in an asylum where there's no way to know how that information may be used against them in the future.

I don't see what's to dislike about this film at all. I'm a woman in the target audience, and I love Sucker Punch. As an abuse victim, the plot really resonated with me. Any misogyny expressed by the male characters is shown to be a bad thing. And the costumes are great, I only wish I had the ability to pull them off because they'd make EXCELLENT cosplay fodder.

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That's an interesting perspective on the first-person presentation, though we do see several scenes where Babydoll wasn't actually present (the copy room when Blue discovers the misplaced pushpin, and Blondie's breakdown both come to mind). Typically, first-person doesn't permit such scenes, though I suppose you could make the argument that all of this was part of Babydoll's delusional state, and such scenes were merely her way of mentally filling in the gaps.

Nevertheless, their inclusion does muddy the waters when it comes to the supporting roles, some of which were admittedly incidental by third-person standards.

Anyway, your post makes for good food for thought! Thanks, apple-bottom!

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Your Kung Fu is powerless against my Feng Shui.

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For me this film desperately try's to steal from the culture I have grow up with. Its a poorly written film, with mediocre acting. The only thing that carry's this film is the CGI.

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I'd have to agree. Even the action scenes weren't up to par. If they had tried better to match the fantasy world with the item they are looking for in the asylum, it could have made for better suspense.

Example: They need a knife from a kitchen = getting a magical sword in the heart of a volcano, protected by an army of orcs. When the girls get there, they steal a WWII plane from the last fantasy world to fight the keeper of the volcano, a dragon.

And for the first one, instead of fighting an army of steampunk zombies, why not just have the Asian girl do a stealth mission in a WWII like setting to get secret documents. Not every fantasy had to be action oriented.



There was also a huge lack of tension/suspense in the action sequences. We knew for a fact that they would have to get the first couple of items, because if they don't then they can't continue the story. That means the first few action scenes you know they are going to win no matter what, and it really takes away any stakes.

They only fail in the final fantasy stage, and it gets a little interesting because it affects reality.

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[deleted]

The ending of this movie is actually a departure from a lot of cliches, which offsets how it toys with cliche through most of the film.
Very well said. I would argue that the ending is responsible for most of the shellacking this film receives, in fact. Audiences are iffy about being sucker punched in the first place, but such a tragic ending for an "overcoming adversity" film really doesn't sit well with most moviegoers today.

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Your Kung Fu is powerless against my Feng Shui.

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