MovieChat Forums > Mary and Max. (2009) Discussion > They lost me at Asperger's Syndrome

They lost me at Asperger's Syndrome


Ill-defined, psychologically controversial, impossible to diagnose, pop-psychology nonsense.

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ikuto-yagawa, your post is judgmental and untrue. Asperger's Syndrome is a form of Autism with scientifically documented differences in brain make-up and activity. There are a number of studies on the subject, which I suggest you look up before passing your judgment on to the rest of the world.

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Well said, I know someone with Aspergers, it's definitely not made up and clearly max's behavioural traits earlier in the film indicated this.

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Before they mentioned the Asperger's, I already assumed that he had it, judging from his behavior.

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No, it's not. You're wrong. Move one symptom up or down the scale of criteria for quantifying autism and you're no longer in "aspergers" zone anymore. You might as well give every symptom its own equally meaningless buzzword.

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What do you mean it "lost you"
Regardless of whether you believe in it or not the fact is that people do get diagnosed of it, real or not, and it was therefore perfectly valid for the plot that Max be given this diagnosis.
Whether or not he actually had Asberger's or another condition is irrelevant.

A lady walks into a cocktail bar and orders a Double Entendre.The barman gives her one

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This is already happening. See my reply above (or below). Still, no need to be bitter about it. From a metaphysical perspective, one could wax as acerbic about your complaints the next cold or flu you get.

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You are the biggest ignorant i've ever seen.

You clearly havnt been close or met anyone with psychological issues.

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I think it might be beneficial if we DID give each symptom its own "buzzword."

I do know that Asperger's/autism are very real conditions - but I admit I am part of the "overdiagnosed" crowd. Its the fact that we're talking about spectrums and levels, the afflicted could have this symptom but not that one, this group over here but not that one over there, etc...

...we all have it.

Most of us are going to be sensitive to loud noises or sudden movements. Its reflex! Most of us are going to find life complicated, because it is!

Some people are going to be introverted, while others are extroverted. Some people have good handwriting, some have bad. In fact, most of us probably have bad handwriting because anything important that others will see is most likely typed nowadays. What's the point of having stellar handwriting on a shopping list?

I can take any symptom of Asperger's and apply it to myself - and that is what I see is the problem (not that its not a real condition, just that its easy to fit the bill!).

If obsessing over certain topics is a symptom, then everyone who goes to a Star Trek convention dressed up should be checked by a doctor.

If talking about a certain topic regardless of the receiver's interest is a problem, then we ALL need to go get checked. We ALL have talked about something someone is not interested in....and we kept going. Its just human nature, for goodness sake.

We all have undesirable qualities about ourselves and I don't think its wise to immediately suspect something may be "wrong" simply because we possess them.

Why can't it just be, "it is what it is?" Own your traits, don't feel ashamed of them! You go to that Star Trek convention and speak Klingon! You go on with your bad self! haha

With the exception of seeing and speaking to Mr. Ravioli, I don't see anything "wrong" with Max. He's a bit odd and quirky, but I wouldn't say he was CLINICAL otherwise. He's just a lonesome homebody and they do tend to be a certain way, and they do tend to have anxiety over life scenarios that half of us wouldn't have an issue with.

But there's still another half that DOES. Why does he have to have Asperger's? Why can't he just be a "lonely geek?" With the exception of Mr. Ravioli, that's what he is - he's just a lonely, geeky type of guy. There's a million of them. Some people just turn out that way - there's nothing "wrong" with their brain.

Several years ago, our newspaper ran a story about a little local boy with autism. His mother was quoted that "Billy" had received a train set for his birthday, and he and his father had been playing with it before bedtime. In the morning, Billy woke up before everyone else, opened his train set box, and put the pieces together himself.

"...and that's when I knew something was wrong," said Mom.

WHAT?!

If I woke up one morning and my child put a toy like that together herself, I'd be BRAGGING, not taking her to the doctor! Why is putting a train set together a bad thing? Why isn't it a great accomplishment? Your kid's a freaking genius, woman! Instead, you're telling him its "bad." He's going to live his entire life thinking something is "wrong" with him. Its a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Sure, maybe Billy DOES have autism. Maybe it was just bad reporting by the paper, but putting a train set together is NOT the end of the world.

To me, its not that the conditions don't exist. Its that there are some very questionable people swept up in this mess thinking that they're "abnormal."

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Some people like the idea that there's "something wrong with them" and that it has a medical name. That way, they're not responsible for their weird behavior, fears, or anxieties.

It's okay to be weird. It's okay to have fears and anxieties. You don't have to assign a medical condition to it. You can own it and embrace your unusual personality, or even overcome your problems. Max accepted his personality and wouldn't allow himself to be diagnosed. He wasn't happy, but that was his choice -- not the inevitable result of his "condition."

When you resign yourself to having a "mental illness" like Asperger's, you're helpless. Some people like being helpless. Takes the pressure off. Makes everyone else seem insensitive, while you quietly suffer and pity yourself.

Max fell into depressions, but he didn't pity himself. He thought everyone else was the weirdo. It's how he chose to live.

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I couldn't be more in agreement with you.

Its a bit like giving yourself up to a "higher power," but the higher power is DNA. Its not under your control - its not your fault. Just medicate and hope for the best.

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There is still much unknown about this syndrome (remember: a syndrome is not a disease, but an identification of symptoms/markers only). It is really not a form of autism. It is only recently being re-categorized under the ASD umbrella for political reasons; i.e., because people identified by Asperger Syndrome do not receive the same social/educational services as those with autism. There is, and will be, much disagreement within the psychological community for some time because of this. As it is, many of the Asperger Syndrome markers are already being split; so, the controversy will probably become inconsequential long before it is settled.

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It is not non-sense. My bf's brother has this syndrome and trust me it is very real. It was kinda interesting, when we were watching this movie my bf had no idea what the movie was about, but when he saw Max's character he said 'hey that's like John!' (his brother) before it announced Max as an Aspie. I thought that was pretty telling.

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For what it's worth, I believe the writer/director's real-life NYC pen-pal (ie. the inspiration for Max) did indeed have Asperger's. So many, many years of casual 'research' went into that screenplay.
_____
I suppose on a clear day you can see the class struggle from here.

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psychologically controversial
as in 'controversial among psychiatrists' - yes, but so are lots of other things
Ill-defined
no moreso (in fact probably less so) than plenty of other accepted psychiatric diagnoses - open the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders to a random page and compare the "official" description of some diagnosis to your own experience and you'll find mismatches galore
impossible to diagnose
as in 'more subjective than many would wish' - yes
as in 'random' or as in 'not respectable' - no
pop-psychology
as in 'diagnosis of the month' - well, yes
as in 'disreputable' or as in 'not much academic research behind it' - no
nonsense
not in my opinion


...they lost me...

Very unfortunate ...for you. Too bad you can't separate your opinion of Aspergers from your opinion of Mary & Max. (Even if all you could manage is to stick your fingers in your ears, you only need miss about ten minutes out of 92.)

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What are you a scientologist or something?





Orgies are not too much fun if no one wants to do it with you.

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One important thing I think the OP missed is that while the film treats Asperger's as something very real (as it should), it's also about the inadequacy of diagnoses. When Mary begins to treat Max as a case study, she loses track of who he really is.

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[deleted]

Ha! Thanks for putting it in perspective, Dross.

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Your OP likely does know a bit about Asperger Syndrome. This is indicative of the controversial nature of the identification. Another qualm that the OP could have with the issue is that there is a great tendency to over-identify people with Asperger Syndrome or another hue & shade on the spectrum. It really is getting crazy, and it's probably somehow Oprah's fault. Regarding Max, he is a textbook case of Asperger Syndrome; he's simply too good to be true.

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My brother has been diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome. He has a lot in common with Max. But one thing that I do not get, but I could be wrong, I thought Asperger's Syndrome affected someone's social skills. Maybe my brother just has it more severely? My brother wants nothing to do with people. And Max just yearns for a friend.
Sorry if I seem ill-informed, there is just so much to learn.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

Asperger syndrome is real.

The brains of people with Aspergers are physically different and these differences are identifiable using Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI). Indeed, MRI brain scans have been used recently to used to diagnose people with Asperger and Autism. The computer based diagnostic test has an accuracy of 90%.

What is important here, is the diagnostic technique is objective, there is no subjective judgment of symptoms. The computer uses a vector machine analytic approach and identifies AS/autism automatically.

This is a welcome development, people diagnosed with Aspergers can now wave a brain scan in the face of doubters.

Here is the reference:

Christine Ecker et al. Describing the Brain in Autism in Five Dimensions - Magnetic Resonance Imaging-Assisted Diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder Using a Multiparameter Classification Approach. The Journal of Neuroscience, 11 August 2010, 30(32):10612-10623; doi:10.1523/JNEUROSCI.5413-09.­2010

The "controversy" that the OP speaks of, is not that Aspergers exist, but weather Aspergers is the same as High Functioning Autism (autism with an IQ >75). Most experts believe that Asperger syndrome and High Functioning Autism are the same thing. And it looks likely that the Autism Spectrum will be eventually defined as - Severe Autism, Moderate Autism and High Functioning Autism.

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Well, this is all moot. The movie is not about Asperger's Syndrome, it is about a friendship between two people with their own problems and situations and the effect they have upon one another in being friends... and one of the things that occurs is that one of them is diagnosed with Asperger's due to the traits he possesses being clinically in line with an AS diagnosis at a time in history when such diagnoses had become more common. Whether or not one places any merit in it as a genuine condition really isn't relevant. It's certainly not worth coming here to be a jerk about it. I regard such things as a plea for attention. This is a film discussion board. Take it to Autism Speaks and see how far you get.

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OP --

Would you feel better if they called Max's problems something other than Aspergers?

Obviously, there were things wrong with Max. I don't care what clinical words they would use to describe his condition, but it was definitely something.

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I have aspergers, or at least a fairly mild form of it. I definitley shared some symptoms with Max. They definitley over-exagerated a few things, like him not understanding smiles and frowns, unless your a particularily bad case then you know when someone is angry and when someone is happy. I always knew, and I always pick up on when women flirt with me. Which isnt often.

I also have poor hand writing and write in a similar style to Max as may be obvious. I also have the sensitivity to sudden movements and loud noises.

Never got the knack with numbers though, shame, would have been nice if I was stronger at math.

So ikuto, suck my balls. Suck them hard, then chase it with sweeten condensed milk.

"The day you're born, you're already dead."

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