MovieChat Forums > The Reader (2009) Discussion > wHY WOUldn't she just say she was illite...

wHY WOUldn't she just say she was illiterate?


???

reply

I agree. IHow could she get that far in life with no one knowing. I thought that whole premise was foolish.

reply

You'd be surprised. Many people go very far in life and they are illiterate. At least back in those days they would. What I don't understand is why she did it.

reply

It happens today, too. You just don't hear much about it for the same reason Hanna did back then: Such people adapt workarounds many of us can't comprehend, because we don't have to go there just to get through life.

As to why they do it... come on! Admitting to that level of vulnerability, whether in post-Nazi Germany or modern life? Humans are predatory bastards. They'll shred you if they think they've got one over on you in any way, and reading/writing are fundamental skills. Publicly admitting you don't have that skillset (even in this era of oversharing) would put a big juicy neon-bright target on your back.

reply

So? It would allow her to escape a life in prison. It doesn't make any sense.

reply

You're underestimating her prideful streak. She would have rather spent the rest of her life in prison rather than admit she couldn't read or write.

It's not uncommon. Do you not know anyone in debt up to their eyeballs or working a job they hate so that they have things that they think make them look good (e.g. a car they really can't afford, etc.)? To sane, unpretentious people, that kind of thing doesn't make any sense either.

reply

Makes perfect sense - you just don't get it.

reply

no, the premise is just terrible.

reply

In other words: You're unable to imagine that not everyone thinks like you?
She had her reasons. Read again: HER reasons.

Someone else explained it already, do I have to quote him so you may finally read (or understand) it?

reply

And what reasons are those?? She was a moron then because no normal human being would make that choice.

reply

You lack the necessary empathy to grasp movies and their characters.
Maybe go back to popcorn cinema like Transformers - no need to be empathetic there at all, have fun.

reply

lol I've never seen a Transformers movie in my life. I watch real cinema, but you are an imbecile.

reply

Unlike you, I am able to understand the movie and her reasoning - but sure, the others are always the imbeciles, amiright? ;)

reply

There is no reasoning to her choice.

reply

Constantly stating the exact same opinion over and over isn't going to change other people's minds. So quit acting like a baby and go take a nap or something.

reply

no offense but this has nothing to do with empathy. human beings are inherently selfish and a NORMAL human being's survival instincts would kick in, ie admitting they're illiterate to avoid jail.

reply

I came here to ask the same question. There's probably a good reason and I wasn't focused on the movie 100% of the time, or else it just makes no sense. She basically chose to be the main contributor to the deaths of 300 Jews over revealing that she can't read.... ?? And on top of that, why didn't the boy say anything?? I understand that she's still guilty, but by not saying anything, their actions basically made the more guilty women get away with less severe convictions. Even at the very end, the boy has grown up and he and the daughter of the survivor decide that it was somehow justified that she received the harder punishment, while the rest of them got away with it?

reply

Hanna,her character meant to be a very kind person..i guess if she know what kind of work she would do at the camp,she will never apply for that job..but of course,somebody illiterate,uneducated,got nobody in this world,who live just to work can be easily decieved and fooled..being a very kind person she already felt guilty about the killing..so she probably thought whether she reveals it or not,she cant make the victims to come alive..

reply

My impression was similar to DaGunnerZ's: while Hanna could simply have admitted her illiteracy in court, her guilty feelings kept her from doing so. She would then have been incriminating the other former Nazi guards, and deep down she knew that, really, she was no more innocent than they were.

reply

Because pride and shame are powerful motivators.

reply

Yes but I think that in such extreme situation pride and shame would go away.

reply

People talk about shame and pride and it is true these are the recurring themes of The Reader but if as a viewer, you believe there comes a point where all the pride and all the shame in the world don't amount to much in some extreme cases, you'll have a hard time accepting the decisions of both Hanna and Michael.

Okay, Hanna is ashamed of her illiteracy and can't publicly admit it, but then how about the shame of having ordered the deaths of 300 women. It's not just about being a guard anymore and following orders but about deliberately lying and pretending you decided to terminate the lives of innocent people. That's what she was accused of. Basically, Hanna Schmitt would rather be accused of such a horrific thing, to be remembered as an evil Nazi than an illiterate woman? We have to accept that from Hanna's standpoint, a reputation of illiteracy is worth the infamy of being remembered as a Nazis, that the boos, the insults and the spits in the face are a small price to pay to keep that secret.

Well, maybe that says a lot about Hanna, and maybe there's something genuinely and unconsciously evil in the way Hanna would rather trade her illiteracy for a horrific crime committed under the Nazi flag, just as if one was 'less shameful' than another. But I'm not sure I wanted to believe that's what was going in her mind. I appreciated the film and tried to understand the enigmatic personality of Hanna, but the whole trial part was extremely frustrating to watch, I had a hard time accepting that a woman would consider illiteracy as a more shameful thing than killing 300 people, what's more accepting to be remembered for a crime she didn't even commit. It's also about the legacy you leave, I agree illiteracy can be an extreme case justifying lies but can it be more extreme than the church fire and its deadly aftermath?

The worst thing is that during the trial, she always talks in such a way to maintain a cloud of ambiguity over the role she played, it's like some suicidal impulse. She can just say "I was following orders", instead of "it was necessary" or "I had to do it", she's like giving dim-witted comments that incriminate her more than simple but straightforward answers, it's like whatever Hanna can say, she'll say the worst possible thing to lose the jury's sympathy, no wonder all the other guards ended up conspiring against her.

I thought this "why doesn't the character just say that?" would only apply to Hanna... and young Michael. But even at the end, when older Michael meets the Jewish woman, he beats around the bush. Instead of saying "she was illiterate, which means that she didn't give any order", so she was as guilty as the other ones but no more. He says that she was illiterate, that he had a liaison with her, and it takes forever for the woman to understand where he's coming from.

But at least make sure that the woman gets what Hanne did... or didn't, for what it's worth, at least, say the truth. I liked the film but sometimes, it felt like the protagonists would never say what 'normal' people would say in such situations, I understand it's for dramatization, but it happens so many times it feels a little bit contrived.


Darth Vader is scary and I  The Godfather

reply

Yes, thank you. What an asinine premise. If you get to your new job and you realize that it involves death,murder,child killings, etc. then leave, get a new job.
If you can't quit, then at trial, tell your attorney you're illiterate and embarrassed. The attorney will get you 4 years, where you learn to read and then you get out, change your name, etc. There are so many obvious permutations of what could happen.
It's really the big problem with this movie. Also, participating in the Holocaust makes one so unsympathetic that I don't feel badly for her shame re:illiteracy.

reply

Shame might be the biggest factor.

---
Your cute 🐈 will DIE eating dry food! Go to Dr. Pierson's
CATINFO.ORG to prevent it!

reply