I am both Catholic and a firm believer in evolution. Perhaps God allowed evolution to happen?
Most people might not be aware that the Church today recently changed their views on biblical stories like creation, Noah's ark, etc. They now say bible stories shouldn't be taken literally, and that most of them are just figurative.
Don't know about you guys, but it makes it so much simpler to me. Don't know what the fuss it all about now...
=D
"They now say bible stories shouldn't be taken literally, and that most of them are just figurative."
Yes. Taking a bible story literally would be like taking the words of Shakespeare literally. When he described Britain as a "precious stone set in the silver sea" it's pretty clear he was being poetic. There isn't really a sea of silver.
The trouble with the idea that god somehow caused evolution is that evolution isn't some arcane process. Evolution is inevitable so long as there is reproduction with variation and selection - and all three of those things are just everyday things we see all around us. There's really no room there for god to be acting.
sharePerhaps Zeus allowed evolution? Perhaps mythological creatures don't exist?
shareThe point is that now there is no contradiction. You can be a faitthful catholic and an evolutionist. In fact, if you are a catholic, that is the normal way.
But other religions didn't feel the same way and,of course, struggles will happen.
So everything up until now about creationism is wrong and all of a sudden religion changes it's views based on public opinion. How convenient! Let me ask you this. If a belief has been wrong for thousands of years then all of a sudden it manipulates itself to absorb an idea that proved it wrong, how long will it be before what you believe is proven wrong again? If you look through history this has happened many times, firstly the church would fight against facts that contradict the bible and eventually when those fact become mainstream beliefs they're like "Totally yeah that's what we think.."
Honestly this is nothing more than an advertising campaign to maintain membership for an obsolete ideology.
It is hard for a major multibillion dollar organization (catholics) to just declare they are wrong and shutdown all their churches.
But on the plus side, those bishops and such aren't dummies. They take science seriously and I guess with all the free time they have, they have studied biology
and came to the conclusion that it makes sense.
Unfortunately, people like Kent Hovind and Ken Ham are still having difficulties in dealing with it or they are truly stupid.
Here is a letter I had published in the paper. It sort of explains itself. Its universally judged as a good example.
"With regard to the article about the Creationist/Evolution argument with David Rosevear, why don’t they come to some form of compromise?
Science and religion can go hand in hand
For example- say there was nothing but a primordial being, existing beyond time, beyond space.
This being wanted to create a universe where life could exist but, of course, there would have to be just the right conditions.
So, this being created an expanding ball of pure energy (which the scientists know as the Big Bang) which he knew would condense into atoms, then stars from these atoms, then planets and life and eventually, sentient beings/people.
Knowing that this would be a hit and miss process, God covered this by making so very, very much “stuff” and then, when given the almost magic ingredient of … TIME. And an unimaginably long period of time, that life would just have to happen somewhere along the line. Like a farmer throwing a handful of seed out on to the land, knowing some will grow, some will not.
There, a perfect marriage of science and religion, where science and evolution can be seen to be an act and invention of God.."
There you are. Any Comments?
So lets skip oxymorons shall we?
..Primodial being of your's might be as well a Interdimensional *beep* who poop itself and everything else into existence...then *beep* said "That *beep* is good"...
well that made a lot of sense....
shareJust simple ontological joke beeps wasnt't too hard to decipher i guess, let's try something comletely different.
"Tell me something. Do you believe in God?'
Snow darted an apprehensive glance in my direction. 'What? Who still believes nowadays?'
'It isn't that simple. I don't mean the traditional God of Earth religion. I'm no expert in the history of religions, and perhaps this is nothing new--do you happen to know if there was ever a belief in an...imperfect God?'
'What do you mean by imperfect?' Snow frowned. 'In a way all the gods of the old religions were imperfect, considered that their attributes were amplified human ones. The God of the Old Testament, for instance, required humble submission and sacrifices, and and was jealous of other gods. The Greek gods had fits of sulks and family quarrels, and they were just as imperfect as mortals...'
'No,' I interrupted. 'I'm not thinking of a god whose imperfection arises out of the candor of his human creators, but one whose imperfection represents his essential characteristic: a god limited in his omniscience and power, fallible, incapable of foreseeing the consequences of his acts, and creating things that lead to horror. He is a...sick god, whose ambitions exceed his powers and who does not realize it at first. A god who has created clocks, but not the time they measure. He has created systems or mechanisms that serves specific ends but have now overstepped and betrayed them. And he has created eternity, which was to have measured his power, and which measures his unending defeat.'
Snow hesitated, but his attitude no longer showed any of the wary reserve of recent weeks:
'There was Manicheanism...'
'Nothing at all to do with the principles of Good and Evil,' I broke in immediately. 'This god has no existence outside of matter. He would like to free himself from matter, but he cannot...'
Snow pondered for a while:
'I don't know of any religion that answers your description. That kind of religion has never been...necessary. If i understand you, and I'm afraid I do, what you have in mind is an evolving god, who develops in the course of time, grows, and keeps increasing in power while remaining aware of his powerlessness. For your god, the divine condition is a situation without a goal. And understanding that, he despairs. But isn't this despairing god of yours mankind, Kelvin? Is it man you are talking about, and that is a fallacy, not just philosophically but also mystically speaking.'
I kept on:
'No, it's nothing to do with man. man may correspond to my provisional definition from some point of view, but that is because the definition has a lot of gaps. Man does not create gods, in spite of appearances. The times, the age, impose them on him. Man can serve is age or rebel against it, but the target of his cooperation or rebellion comes to him from outside. If there was only a since human being in existence, he would apparently be able to attempt the experiment of creating his own goals in complete freedom--apparently, because a man not brought up among other human beings cannot become a man. And the being--the being I have in mind--cannot exist in the plural, you see? ...Perhaps he has already been born somewhere, in some corner of the galaxy, and soon he will have some childish enthusiasm that will set him putting out one star and lighting another. We will notice him after a while...'
'We already have,' Snow said sarcastically. 'Novas and supernovas. According to you they are candles on his altar.'
'If you're going to take what I say literally...'
...Snow asked abruptly:
'What gave you this idea of an imperfect god?'
'I don't know. It seems quite feasible to me. That is the only god I could imagine believing in, a god whose passion is not a redemption, who saves nothing, fulfills no purpose--a god who simply is.”
― Stanisław Lem, Solaris
God allowed evolution to happen?
the Church today recently changed their views on biblical stories
Two points come to mind.
Evolution is a natural process. As such it does not need a god to set it in motion. What you're saying is like saying God is responsible for gravity. Gravity is also a natural process or reaction. So adding God into this hypothesis of yours is unnecessary.
Second point. One criticism some Christians have made of science is that it changes. They say things like "how can you trust science, the books are always changing, etc". Now I'm not saying you are one of those Christians but you seem awfully comfortable with changes in religion which seems like hypocrisy.
It also seems to me that the church had to change their story. They realize that because education is more available and science produces more factual knowledge it cannot claim stories like Jonah and the Whale, Noahs Ark, etc. as being literal without looking stupid so they basically retconned the bible.
How you can be fine with that is beyond me.
"One criticism some Christians have made of science is that it changes"
==Of course it changes, just like technology changes.
When something new is discovered, it is not going to be ignored by the curious scientists.
On the other hand, it doesn't change by much for the most part. The concepts from 3000 years ago are still present. The same method used to calculate the size of the Earth can still be used.
Some christians are science illiterate and think that science gets rewritten from the ground up.
Some of them don't even know the basic concepts like how radiometric dating is done. (How many times have I seen someone say that carbon dating is unreliable and that they use this method to date dinosaur fossils).
How many of these guys know how many different radiometric methods there are?
Pff, you don't even need to measure it. The continental drift is super slow.
The only radioactive elements on Earth have humungous half-lives, 100 million years and plus.
All other radioactive isotopes have decayed long ago into stable nucleides.
Here is a list for you:
98Tc = 4.2 x 10^6 y (4.2 million years, does not exist in nature)
99Tc = 2.111 x 10^5 y (211 thousands years, does not exist in nature)
137La = 6 x 10^4 y (60 thousand years, does not exist in nature)
138La = 1.05 x 10^11 y (105 billion years, 0.090% of natural La)
145Pm = 17.7 y (does not exist in nature)
146Pm = 5.53 y (does not exist in nature)
147Pm = 2.6234 y (does not exist in nature)
145Sm = 340 d (does not exist in nature)
146Sm = 1.06 x 10^11 (106 billion years, 14.99% of natural Sm)
147Sm = 7 x 10^15 y (7000000 billion years, 11.24% of natural Sm)
148Sm = 2 x 10^15 y (2000000 billion years, 13.82% of natural Sm)
150Sm = unknown (7.38% of natural Sm)
151Sm = 90 y (does not exist in nature)
152Sm = unknown (26.75% of natural Sm)
153Sm = 46.284 h (does not exist in nature)
154Sm = >2.3×10^18 y (22.75% of natural Sm)
180W = 1.8×10^18 y (0.12% of natural W)
182W = >1.7×10^20 y (26.50% of natural W)
183W = >8×10^19 y (14.31% of natural W)
184W = >1.8×10^20 y (30.64% of natural W)
186W = >4.1×10^18 y (28.43% of natural W)
228Th = 1.9116 y (does not exist in nature)
229Th = 7340 y (does not exist in nature)
230Th = 75380 y (does not exist in nature)
231Th = 25.5 h (does not exist in nature)
232Th = 1.405×10^10 y (14 billion years, 100% of natural Th)
231Pa = 32760 y (Exists as trace element in U ore. Decay product of U235)
232U = 68.9 y
233U = 1.592×10^5 y (159 thousand years, trace amounts)
234U = 2.455×10^5 y (245 thousand, exists in nature, decay product from U238, trace amounts)
235U = 7.04×10^8 y (704 million, 0.7% of natural U)
236U = 2.342 x 10^7 y (2.3 million years, trace)
238U = 4.468 x 10^9 y (4.4 billion years, 99.274% of natural U)
235Np = 396.1 d (does not exist)
236Np = 1.54×10^5 y (does not exist)
237Np = 2.144×10^6 y (exists as trace element in U ore)
238Np = 2.356 d (does not exist)
238Pu = 87.74 y (does not exist)
239Pu = 2.41×10^4 y (exists as trace element in U ore)
240Pu = 6.5×10^3 y (exists as trace element in U ore)
241Pu = 14 y (does not exist)
242Pu = 3.73×10^5 y (exists as trace element in U ore)
244Pu = 8.08×10^7 y (exists as trace element in U ore)
An isotope like C14 is produced high in the atmosphere starting from N14. Since this one is produced continuously, it is present on Earth in small quantities.
God created evolution.
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