Here's my complaint with the tent scene. In the tent when they're talking about leaving Nick and Gina. While I thought the dialogue fit perfectly, the fear the characters were showing did not. The characters spoke the words as though they were fearing of their lives, and that made no sense. They can't fear that the others are the killers, because they themselves are the killers, and they can't fear that Nick and Gina know THEY are the killers, because it's obvious they don't. Nick doesn't suspect until Zahn and he are alone on the kayaks that Cliff is a killer. And Gina is surprised also when she finds the camera.
One of the explanations fans give is that they are "In character". I could buy that, if we didn't see them so often OUT of character. In the flashbacks, like in the hotel room, when he pours champagne on her back on the balcony, or on the beach, when they do the meth. Hell, when they take the "Bathroom Break", they lapse out of character during that dialogue sequence. To me, that's a cop-out as an excuse. They're either in character, or they're not. If you're going to say to me that they're acting fearful because they're living the other couple's lives, then they should not break character. But, as evidenced in the flashbacks, they're frequently showing their real selves, even when they're nearby other people. So they should be showing they're real selves when talking about leaving. Or at least not showing their terrified selves. Nothing to fear for them.
Notice the only time we really see them out of character is during flashbacks. The film, up until that point, edits out all the obvious out of character moments. Now, don't get me wrong, I know this is a thriller, and it has to remain a mystery, but I felt the tent scene was a cheat. I would have been much more appreciative of the film if that sequence had used the same dialogue, but with a different perspective. Them having a more normal conversation, less fearful. It would have given the perceptive viewer a clue, instead of cheating the perceptive viewer.
So I will flat out agree with everyone who's a defender that the dialogue spoken by Jovovich and Zahn during that sequence was not cheating. But the fear the actors expressed, to me, WAS cheating, because there was nothing for them to fear at that point. There was no way that Nick and Gina would figure them out unless they really started digging, and there was no reason for them to dig. Nick and Gina weren't fearful characters, and at that point, the only way N/G would discover C/C were bogus was if they revealed it themselves.
Decent movie, and I own it, but I felt some cheating was done.
I love to love my Lisa.
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storm056
13 years ago
They weren't afraid of Nick and Gina thinking they were killers. They were afraid of being caught by the authorities, who were actively out searching for them. There's a scene, can't remember exactly how it went, where they learn that authorities believe the killers are on the hiking trail and are actively searching for them. Later, we even see the authorities arrest the 3rd couple, and Jovovich and Zahn become very happy and are much more relaxed afterward. Of course, you're suppose to think this is because they think the 3rd couple are the killers, when obviously it's because the authorities are no longer on their trail. Sure, these people are crazy killers - but they are *good* *serial* crazy killers and so they are constantly looking over their backs.
I, too, think the whole "in character" theory is silly. It's totally unnecessary and actually clouds a few of the scenes. The only scene where it may make sense is when Zahn is showing Jovovich the picture from the newspaper. The best explanation for that would be that they had grown accustom to speaking about their true identities in the 3rd person just in case someone were to overhear them. Really, would you refer to yourself in the 1st person if you were on a public trail just a few feet from the person you planned to kill next?
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AMSATcorp
13 years ago
Tell me why in the tent they can't be scared? After seeing what Nick could do, and seeing Gina gut the goat, etc., and that they had their own tools (weapons) on them, and Nick's stories (which at first they dismissed, then later, started to realize might be true) starting to seem less like fiction, when they say "ok these two have graduated." It meant, these two would be much harder to kill and replace. Why do you have to assume that killers doing a job like, in the situation they were in, wouldn't be scared? In fact, Jovovich's character was the one who seemed more scared, and she was the less crazy of the two. She was more of the sidekick. Zahn's character didn't seem as scared, so it fit in with their real personalities rather well.
I am sorry for all the people who feel cheated, but, you guys are just bitter because you are probably used to being able to guess the endings (I can usually get the endings after about 45 mins at about a 70% clip, so I myself can say I can guess the endings more correctly than incorrectly, but this movie did way too good of a job at making their conversations so ambiguous) and this movie didn't give you enough to guess it...and clearly and purposefully and effectively kept you unsure. However, on a second viewing, and I have viewed every scene again, if you put yourself in the place of the killers (i know this is the biggest problem most average people [especially Americans] have, is putting theirselves in other peoples' positions and trying to imagine how they would feel or what they would do/say), their comments and their behavior makes sense.
Also, at the bottom of your post you said Nick and Gina weren't fearful characters...So you are saying that if you were in the woods with Nick and Gina, you wouldn't get nervous trying to take on Nick and Gina? Wow, you must be a real tough badass man! I mean, just the ending where Gina was pretty f-ing tough and Nick ending up catching and killing Cliff...they still aren't fearful characters huh? Or maybe you just weren't as good as judging Nick's character as Cliff was? Either way, anyone who feels cheated really just feels bitter, I think.
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atherva
12 years ago
My addition to the "in character" debate. Part of stepping into the other identities and taking on their personalities is that they are playing a game. It's fun for them to pretend to be other people. It's not just a functional thing for them as often happens in movies.
Mr Blonde3:
I'm surprised that you noticed all those points but you think they make the characters' behavior seem less believable. In the flashbacks where they are killing the people and immediately afterwards, of course they're not "playing" yet because they're figuring out what to do. Then, they started the game, pretending to be the old dead couple and starting the hunt for a new couple. If you meant the brief flashback where we saw them smoking meth on the beach, that's only *one* time after they left the other island. Between meeting Nick and making it to the beach, they never had an opportunity to get away from them to let their guard down, smoke meth, and fall out of character more.
I haven't seen anyone yet mention that we also see Cydney and Cliff start to experiment with the new characters/personalities before the flashback reveals everything. Cliff is in a tank top after the 2nd couple are arrested, my first thought was "wow, he looks kind of military," while earlier he was always buttoned down. The costumes basically hid his muscles the whole time, making him seem less capable. He suddenly wants to go off on a kayaking adventure to the sea caves, while earlier Nick had to drag him into the woods. Also, when Cydney is describing going to the lake as a teenager, I thought she was imitating Gina in how she spoke, just not with a full on southern accent.
Another thing, when Cliff is surprised in the woods and pulls the hatchet on that guy, he says "who is that female?" I don't know about you, but I tend to refer to people as "women" and "men." That sounded like military, police, or maybe even hunter lingo.
The fear they have in the tent conversation comes from Cliff pulling the hatchet on that guy and realizing that a) if that guy could find them so easily, so could the police and b) people back at the shop remember theme. They know their faces and have the names of two dead people in written records for the permits. If they give up on the hunt and go back through the woods, it will take a long time for them to get out, and they could run into many people. Cliff also really *wants* to kill them, because that's what he does. They can't kill them in the forest, though, because they now know the bodies will be found pretty quickly. They need to make it to the water so that they can get rid of the bodies and, once there, they have the possibility that there's a way to escape more quickly from the island.
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momo_jojo-1
12 years ago
I never got the impression in the tent that the characters were fearing for their lives, or were even scared. I would say they were more anxious/nervous about being made. They were after all in the midst of an ex marine with acute situational awareness. They may have been worried that they would slip up, perhaps say or do something wrong and Mr. hyper vigilant would pick up on it (which is what ended up happening in the cave and could have happened at any prior moment) and force them into a confrontation they were not prepared to have. This is why they were discussing the option of bailing.
Killers in movies are always made out to be so bloody invincible, like machines almost (michael myers, ghost face etc) but they are not machines, they are human beings with the same base instincts of survival that non killers have, with the ability to over think and analyse situations, just like non killers do.... I think maybe the reason so many people felt cheated by this film was because the killers were humanised and maybe even a couple of you out there related to them before you knew they were the killers and you didn't like it.
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bcook
12 years ago
Mr Blonde3, you hit the nail on the head. The only major cheat in this movie for me is the "keep your game face on" bit. When they're alone, Cliff and Cydney keep their "game faces" on when it's convenient for the plot and don't keep them on when it's not. Still, I enjoyed this movie overall and even watched it again right after seeing it the first time.
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