Is it proven? - Skin (2009) Discussion

Are you really asking if Sannie was Sandra's mother?

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[–] ebonyentbuff 13 years ago

yes what i ment too ask is theres proof sannie gave birth too sandra or that the children was theirs maybe dad was messing around with the help and they raised his kids

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[–] j_mcdermid 13 years ago

The husband couldn't bear to touch a black person's hand. Why would he knock one of them up?

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[–] jones8557-1 12 years ago

I want to know the same thing. Today, she can find the percentage of "white," "black," or "other" DNA she has. We need an update!

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[–] queenoftheuniverse1 12 years ago

While the general public viewing this movie may wish for an update regarding her DNA it does not mean she herself may be interested in finding out more about her bloodlines. As she was shunned by most of the white culture she grew up in and eventually married a black man because she knew she could never fit in with the white people around her, I would say she may be just tired of all the discussion surrounding the genetics and would like to live her life peacefully.

Our curiosity does not automatically give us an open door to further explore her life unless she chooses to allow us to do so.

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[–] OnlyRocknRoll 12 years ago

If she managed to escape the idle, prurient curiosity of others then she would indeed be lucky/blessed.

In the U.S., with all its BS about 'right to privacy' your privacy is constantly invaded by your "neighbors", the government, etc. All who think they have the "right" to tread all over your life.

_______________________________________
"ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED??!!"

Maximus Decimus Meridius

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] ohhhappyday 9 years ago

I think the OPs theory makes more sense. I think a man who hates black people is more likely to use black people for sex than agree to raise the mixed race children of his wife's affair. Who knows maybe his wife couldn't have any more children so he brought them home.

And to the person who said he was racist and wouldn't touch a black person read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essie_Mae_Washington-Williams

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] ohhhappyday 9 years ago

It waas Sandra herself that said he didn't like black people*. She also apparently said her younger brother, the one who had some African features looked a lot like her Abraham and as we know from the blood test Abraham had a blood type compatible with being her father.

Obviously this is all speculation and we will only ever know the truth with a DNA test but I think it's a lot more likely the racist Abraham had an affair with a mixed-race woman, despite hating black people (just like Senator Thurmond) and that just like Thurmond paid to educate his child, Abraham choose to raises his children and try to ignore the African genes, which was a lot easier to do for her lighter brother and explains why he cut off contact with Sandra when she rebelled and had herself declared coloured.

I mean yes he was racist but first and foremost they were his children, there are plenty of cases of slave owners treating their mixed race children well and having them educated in the finest schools while keeping their black cousins in shackles. Blood is thicker than water and in some cases racism. I just can't imagine the opposite, him raising the children of his wife's affair, very few men would do that let alone when the children were of an opposite race.

*Its in this interview http://old.stageandcinema.com/skininterview.html . I couldn't find where she said her brother looked like Abraham I read that on these boards.

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] ohhhappyday 9 years ago

I don't think Sannie was tricked, she obviously (if it is true) knew the child was not biologically hers but loved that child as much as any mother. I'd say they both prayed hard that the mixed race child would not darken 'too much' for Apartheid South Africa. Even today women are using donor eggs but as far as they're conserned that child is theirs even though they have no biological connection. If Sannie was infertile in her day shed have limited options.

If Abraham did take advantage of a poor black woman (did they have a house keeper?) and then stole her children off her he's not much different to Christiano Ronaldo (isn't the rumor that he paid off a black waitress for his son).

and in the movie we even see her pregnant

The movie is based on what Sandra thought was true. If Sannie had been unable to conceive kids/more kids and raised Sandra and her brothers as her own children, then obviously Sandra would assume her mother was pregnant with her but is there evidence outside Sandra's assumptions? Photos? Medical records? I'd be suspicious if the only evidence is a home birth. Also personally I can see Abraham in Sandra.

Women are a lot more compassionate and nurturing than men. Their nature makes them a lot more likely to agree to raise another woman's child than vice versa.

Like I've said, I just think Abraham and Sannie choosing to raise his mix race children from his affair and due to her infertility, and hoping to god they can pretend the children are white is more likely than Sannie convincing the racist Abraham that his is the father of her lovers children. Even if she did manage to fool him in the beginning the neighbours whispering and talking about him not being the father, and the father being black would have no doubt mortified and angered the racist unless he had nothing to be angry at Sannie about because he knew that she was not the reason for Sandra's existence but him. I could see a racist man divorcing and or beating his wife if the whole town was laughing that she cheated on him with a black man but he stayed with Sannie. Why? What did he know that we don't.

Anyway like I said we won't know until if and when a DNA test was done. Maybe it already has been and the result didn't fit with the movie.

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] ohhhappyday 9 years ago

If Sannie knew the child was not hers then we wouldn't have this while scandal of a white couple having a black looking child

Yes we would. What were Sannies other options? To 'out' the child she loved as her own in Apartheid South Africa? To abandon the child she considered her own and loved as her own and throw her to the metaphorical wolves? Sannie and Abraham had no idea how the kids skins would darken as they got older, many people falsly believe that the color a mixed race child is born is the colour that stays forgetting the effects of the sun/puberty. I really think they thought that the kids would look white and that no one would notice, they never imagined they'd have to fight for their child to be declared white but they had to, they had to protect Sandra's future and Abrahams reputation.

You have to remember it was a different time. How many black people passing went to their deaths beds declaring themselves white to the bitter end? Plenty. If they admitted the truth they condemned their children, grandchildren etc. if Sannie admitted the truth that the mother was a poor African taken advantage of by Abraham that was her children's prospects in life gone.

Abrahams and Sannie put so much effort into denying their kids blackness it's not sunrising at all that Abraham couldn't forgive Sannie when she decided to stop and imbrace her colouredness.

Sannie of course would have had to been pregnant and given birth to a child

Where is the evidence? If I saw evidence I'd believe it but we have only been told what Sandra wants us to be told or the story only as she knows it, she doesn't know what went on in her early years.

Abraham would have had to switch her child

That's really far-fetched, this is real life not just a movie. I don't think there was any white child. I don't think Sannie could produce children.

Like I said I don't think it's logical to believe a racist white man happily took in his wife's black lovers children and went to work probably 46+ hour weeks (as they did in the old days) to provide shelter for a food for unrelated Africans. It's especially illogical to believe he went out of his way to provide for unrelated black children when the whole town (and later the whole country) would have been laughing at him and mocking him about those children.

Sannie loved her husband, she raised his kids and protected his secret.

I've stated what I believe there's no point going over and over this, we won't ever know the true answer because the producers of this movie obviously think it doesn't benefit them for us to know.

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] ohhhappyday 9 years ago

This is getting annoying. I have my opinion you have yours I really don't want to argue anymore neither of us can prove anything.

If Sannie knew the child wasn't hers why not say it

Have you ANY concept of the time this happened in! Sannie admitting the child wasn't hers would be admitting the child is coloured! Sannie admitting the child wasn't hers would be the sole cause of Sandra not being allowed to attend white schools, enter white restaurants or marry white men. An admission like that would have destroyed Sandras life and probably Leon and Adriaans life too! Why would a mother adoptive or not ruin her three children's reputation and future like that! That's crazy!

what's wrong with a stepmother saying the child isn't her

She wasnt a step mother -.- biological or not she was the only mother Sandra knew and Sandra was the only daughter she ever knew. Like I said declaring Sandra the result of an affair would have been no different to killing her, it would have radically changed her life and probably would have caused serious questioning over whether her brothers were white.

Brothers today both living as white and both rich.
Sannie today coloured and living in poverty. The film makers couldmt even contact her directly because she couldn't afford a phone.

She doesn't have to lie and act like the real mother

She is her real mother biological or not! What are you not getting here? Do women who use donor eggs to get pregnant go around telling everyone they're not the real mother? No they don't, get a grip.

So you don't think any of Sannie children are hers? That wouldn't make any sense as the oldest is white looking

Evidence please? Where do you have a photo of the oldest son?
I gave you a link to a Leon Laing who lives in the area near to where Sannie died and could possibly be her son and he does not look white. His skin is dark enough for him to be 1/4 African.

Sandra feeling like a freak.... would be a terrible thing to do

No! Telling the truth and having the three children declared coloured and having the three of them kicked out of school would be a terrible thing to do. How many buildings was Sandra not allowed enter when she was coloured! That is a horrible life! The parents passed the two boys as white and the boys lived a good life, Sandra had herself declared coloured and ended up losing her kids for a while and living in poverty. I'd thank my lucky starts if I were Leon and Adriaan, and you know what they were so grateful to their parents that they cut off all contract with Sandra. Even to this day Leon and Adriaan beg reporters to leave them alone becsuse they don't want their kids to know about Sandra. They are still hiding the truth.

And make her children feel like freaks?

Again you're seriously deluded if you think feeling like a freak (which only happened because Sandra darkened more than Sannie and Abraham expected) is worse than being KICKED out of schools, restaurants, shops and basically society and ending up living in povert. LOL Like I said Sannie keeping the secret was protecting her husbands reputation and the lives of the children she loved.

If things had gone as they planned Sandra would have stayed as light as she was born (like her brothers did) and she would have never known she was different.

Ok for white men to have babies with black women

Um no, not it was not. Apparently it happened more often in the 18th century but it did not happen as offen during apartheid and was certainly a major taboo! Apartheid was created to keep the 3 races separate so anyone found crossing that boundary would have been in a lot of trouble from society,

slave masters did this and it was open

A different time, a different place and it was still NOT open. The 1/2 black Sally Hemmingways children were clearly 1/4 black indicating a white father but Thomas Jefferson never acklowedged them as his! Even today there's debate about whether they were Jeffersons or his uncles.

Why would he not adopt a white kid

Why would he adopt a kid that wasnt his when he had three white looking kids of his own. He didn't know 1 out of 3 would darken.

The fact you think men are jumping over themselves to raise other men's kids is hilarious!

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[–] 9 years ago

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[–] ohhhappyday 9 years ago

This might be of interest to you. It was a beep to read http://www.sagenealogie.com/archives/2010/feb2010.pdf

It basically says that the whole town believed Sandras father was Abraham's employee in his shop who would have worked alongside Sannie but that the black man in questions family didn't believe it. It also has Abrahams family tree with presumably no Africans as it didn't point them out, just that the Laings were originally Dutch or German Jews.

Also I think this is Sandra's older brother Leon. http://www.peoplespost.co.za/articles/articledetails.aspx?id=59998 Everyone always comments on her younger brother showing African features but if Leon is the man on the right in that photo then he too has non-white ancestry because he is very dark, Anyway it seems all three children are most likely full siblings but which whether it's their mother or father who is black I do not know.

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[–] MTulliver 8 years ago

"Women are a lot more compassionate and nurturing than men."

Baloney.

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