****spoiler****
When Horten went down the ski slope I was worried that the film would end at that point, and it would be like The Wrestler where it's unclear whether the main character dies or survives.
But in the next scene we see that he survives.
You're kidding right? You thought it was unclear in The Wrestler whether he died or not? There was no question that he died and it was the perfect way for him to die - in the ring doing what he loved.
shareWrong. There IS a question as to whether the Wrestler dies, and it is this ambiguity that makes it an excellent ending.
shareMaybe it's just me but I thought Horten died after the ski jump. Here are some reasons why I thought so:
(1) He did the ski jump at night and at his age, it is not only dangerous, but his inexperience (to ski jumping) would ultimately be his swan song.
(2) The next scene where a train was heading out of a tunnel suggested to me that Horten is heading to the light in a metaphysical sense (his death).
(3) Horten left Molly the dog behind after Sissener died. He was spying on one particular lady who was making a cake and thought that she is perfect to take care of Molly.
(4) The last scenes with him in a train (unseen by the train conductor) and him dressed in civilian clothes are very telling scenes that the movie showed his afterlife. His encounter with Svea at the end may just be a poetic license to show that Horten cared for Svea all these years.
This is just my idea and the beauty of the film is on the interpretation of viewers.
Groucho-nc, I think that you're right on the money on all four counts. I didn't think of the cake lady in relation to the dog but I think you're right, though I would suggest that he was observing her rather than spying on her. Compare this ending to the ending of "The Shop on Main Street" where where the happy ending takes place after the death of the two main characters. On the other hand, the ski jump could have been "the leap" from his old self to his reborn new self, hence no uniform, overcoming his mother's disapproval at last - he was in good shape, after all. But I prefer your interpretation.
shareI considered this as well, groucho, my main reasons being similar to your #2 and #4. The shift to a more dreamlike cinematic technique is often indicative of something occurring in a dream (or afterlife) state.
Here's another possibility (albeit a grim one):
Those last scenes are what's flashing through his mind as he's in the air. Then notice when the train hits the bumpers at the "end of the line", there's an overly loud *crash*.
That is a great interpretation, grouch-nc, that had not occurred to me but it does make a great deal of sense.
My own interpretaton was a bit more literal. I thought Horten's observing of the woman making the cake was a bit uplifting, because she was making a wedding cake the second time. Life goes on, just as the trains pass Horten's apartment. I also thought Horten gave himself permission to care after the dog, Molly, when Steiner revealed himself (and the truth) and stated that he couldn't look after her anyway. So, after a lifetime of avoiding risks, avoiding attachments, avoiding adventure and the limelight, Horten was ready to make the small step of caring for a dog and visiting a woman he liked.
Anyway, nice to see other thoughtful interpretations, like yours. Cheers.
After another viewing, I'm leaning more towards JayCeezy's interpretation. I'm not sure I ever quite believed my theory above - I was just throwing it out there.
Going back to groucho's points that I mentioned before (only this time I'm contrasting them):
2) I think this more than anything else just mirrors the beginning credits.
4) If you got back and watch the very beginning, when another engineer is talking to Horten as Horten "drives" the train, he (Horten) hardly acknowledges the other fellow at that time either. This is Norway after all; many Scandanavians are, shall we say, "men of few words".
The woman making the cake, JayCeezy, could also have served to remind him about Svea and his (perhaps semi-dormant) desire to be with her, symbolized by the wedding cake.
Otherwise, yeah, I think it's pretty much about Horten moving on with his life.
dbeane, I was just thinking about this movie again, and remembered a bit of a sad scene. Towards the movies beginning, where O'Horten is confiding his dream of how his last day at work will play out, she indicates that she will miss him. He responds that he "can come and visit (Svea)." Neither one was smiling, and they looked away from each other. It was so sad, everyone over the age of 10 has had a conversation like that. The kind of white lie one tells to get out of an uncomfortable moment; it doesn't really hurt anyone, but it doesn't address the truth of the awkwardness.
Anyway, it was nice that in the end he did choose to come visit, and the smiles on both of their faces made a hopeful ending for the movie. Cheers!
I think he sold his boat because he was going to kill himself.
shareThere were 2 other deaths in the back half of the film, possibly foreshadowing. I can live with the death explanation. It is almost the final scene in the film. Though the very next scene is definitely a transition in time. It could be a dream, it could be the afterlife, but I think I go with the theory that he lives on. He has the dog, he is dressed differently and he even has a new expression on his face. So I think it is a transition, not an final ending.
share#3 - He sees the baker making a wedding cake!
#4 - Of course the engineer (not conductor) sees Horten - he lets him drive the train! It's not the afterlife.
I think it's hilarious that people on IMDB tend to over-analyze everything. I think it's pretty clear that Horten did not die at the end and the train station does not represent "the light at the end of the tunnel". I honestly think that after living a very rigid life with few social outlets, he finally learned to begin living and enjoying life. He stopped dressed as an engineer, an identity he clung onto for 40 years. He realized after meeting the schizophrenic man that it is not too late for anything in life. So, he embarks on a new adventure in life with the woman from the boarding place, goes ski jumping, etc.
shareI agree with psychassess.
"(3) Horten left Molly the dog behind after Sissener died. He was spying on one particular lady who was making a cake and thought that she is perfect to take care of Molly. "
I think the film can be interpreted both ways, BUT Molly is definitely the tip off that implies what really happened.
If you notice in the 2nd to last scene at Horten's apartment there is no dog. He's in his bedroom, no dog, he walks to the living room, no dog, not a sound. I was paying close attention to this because I was trying to figure out what happened to Molly. He definitely didn't bring her back to his apartment.
In the final scene he's with Molly. I think this is the director's subtle way of *winking* at us as if to say this is not the way things really happened. It's an alternate reality of his imagination, or like dbeane said, it's what's flashing through his mind as he flies through the air before the final "crash". Either that or the director made a mistake by forgetting to show Molly in Horten's apartment, but judging by how meticulous the film is, I think it's a deliberate clue.
The movie is called 'The Wrestler', not 'Wrestler'. And thanks to your bad thread title you have now spoiled that movie for me. :)
shareI personally believe he lived on. The film is very simple in its approach, which is why it works so well. Its a very uplifting tale of a man who thinks he has nothing left in his life, but finds out he can still do things. I don't think the ending is supposed to be complicated. Its just telling you that its never too late to achieve things you have set out to do many years previous.
No one makes horror like the French!
I think it was intentional to leave an element of doubt at the ending to show the "risk" that Odd was taking, risk being something he previously would avoid. The biggest element in me understanding the ending is him taking that ancient meteorite with him. It's 4.7 billion years old but as we are told, ending up in the crazy man's drinks cabinet "isn't the end of it's journey". While it still exists there is chance for this ancient meteorite to experience new things. If an inert rock has this opportunity, then why not a recently retired train driver?
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