well definitely something, that little scene with the card kind of gives you the idea. Maybe not at that time, or not even sex, but probably something.
I also would like to know why she was there for the summer.
I don't care about the last movie you seen or your rating.
i guess, jane thought that michael knew about the reason why she lived with them. i'm guessing is that she had an abortion. meat is murder? i don't know. that whole plotpoint needed to have been clarified.
i walked in beauty too, till i met you
I was thinking the exact same thing, that Jane and Michael slept together or something..I didnt get that part.
shareThey had sex ON A REGULAR BASIS, everytime they went fishing together.
That was made very clear in the movie. She was his first, and taught him everything.. Maybe not right there and then, but a few years later.
That's what hot cousins and aunts are for, right ? ;-)
Always RATE after you watch it =)
I figured his aunt thought he was going to write a book dumping on his father for child abuse when he was a kid.
There was also the scene where Julia Roberts started to leave when she accused her husband of having an affair with one of his students. This is when Michael came after him with a baseball bat.
I often tell people that "bas---ds live forever. Sure they may cough and limp around for 10-20 years after drinking, fighting, abusing anyone they can, taking drugs etc. But they don't die until their lives are meaningless to the people who have had to put up with them.
The father in this case will be the one "leaving a *beep* trail" behind him instead of Michael.
The plot did left a lot to be clarified. I think the abortion theory is more plausible. The relationship between Michael and his aunt did sometimes took a road that gave the impression that there was something stronger than family bounds but never really illustrated it as incestuous unambiguously. As for the abortion, there is as well nothing in the film that can confirm it but the reluctance in explaining to Michael why his aunt would stay for summer and had to go to the hospital the next day (the scene at dinner table) can definitely be the hint. That would’ve explained why Dafoe’s character was so stiff on making Jane follow the same rules he wrote for Michael. Even thought his character is a controlling maniac it was reasonable to think that he wouldn’t be as bad-tempered to his sister in law as he was to his son, except if she had done something really wrong. That would also give other level of importance to the scene in which Jane’s son runs away from home. She might be thinking she was on the verge of losing her *second* child and that makes her go back on time and feel totally irresponsible again.
It seems to me that Dennis Lee didn’t have the balls to go further in such controversial themes as abortion and incest. Luckily enough the very good performances of almost all cast saved this movie of being a total letdown.
I am pretty confused about the big secret. There are some clues about this but it doesnt seem to stick together. First clue is "Meat is murder", then when they are having dinner the father tells the son to write down the rules of the house in order for Jane to read it first thing in the morning before they go to hospital. I think that's a pretty big clue. On the other hand, when they are washing the dishes together (jane and michael) she tells him that this book is going to kill his dad, if he reads it. If we are talking about abortion then the dad already knows, so why it would kill him? So it's not abortion, but it doesn't seem to be some kind of incest as well, at least I hope it wouldn't be.
shareNo, I think that Michael’s mom was pregnant by her lover, her husbands associate. Think about it, they were seeing each other for about three years. If it was going to kill the father when he found out the “big secret”, maybe it could of been that she was going to leave him.
shareIf not, he should have. :)
However, I can't imagine anyone would admit to such an act in an autobiography. What do I know, though.
There was no incest. In the dish washing scene, he is confused as to what secret he had even wrote down. Sure as a boy he may not have known that having sex with your aunt is wrong, you know if you'r backwards, but as a 30 something year old man, he would have realised. I thought that by kill your dad, she just meant all the hurtful stuff that his father had done and to see it on paper would affect him. I think it was an abortion and she was probably forced into it. Her parents had obviously sent her away because she didn't want to be in her sisters house in the first place, plus she had just become a vegeterian. Michael never knew about the abortion so didnt know what secret he was giving away. Although I thought they would have explained it better.
The whores and politicians will look up and shout "save us!" and I'll look down and whisper "no."
For me it was obviously an abortion. No doubt about it.
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I have a different opinion. There was an abortion but this was NO secret - the father new. The Auntie said it was a secret that would kill his father but Michael didn't know what she was talking about. This was a secret between her and his father which I think was originally intended to be a clever twist.
I think the Auntie slept with his father - it explains a lot and makes sense. You will notice she never really talks to the father. Also his character is already portrayed as cheating on his wife. It also explains the way Auntie hinted at sexuality with Michael leading us down that incest path - a red herring. The story would have suddenly twisted with the revelation that she slept with his father and not him which the audience were thinking may have happened.
I believe that it was the directors intention to reveal this but perhaps during filming or test screenings they decided to leave it open. Perhaps it was intended to be a two hour film but as it went straight to video and they had to cut it out to make it 90min.
Well, I'd really have to think hard about the likelihood of your incest suggestion, but whatever confusions we feel around the vagaries of the film are very likely for the reason you state. The European releases are listed at 120 minutes and we get only 99 -- a 16% reduction. A lot of plot can be covered in that amount of time. I'm wondering what prompted such severe editing and why it wasn't promoted more. This film is far from being a dog and should have gotten more support on the strength of its cast alone. What I see, I like. I expect I'd like a lot of what I haven't seen as well.
sharei just figured she was there for an abortion, you know going to the hospital, staying away from home (and the boy who got her pregnant) for the summer
isnt it obvious?
She did get an abortion according to the interview with Emily Watson (dvd-extras).
She said that it was usual for girls to go to a part of the family that lives further away from home in order to get an abortion so nobody would notice.
I also thought she was there because of an abortion. There was not even a hint of incest. Just because he was close to his Aunt does not mean it was sexual. Not every close relationship has to be sexual.
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I really took it as that the nature of their relationship was portrayed as way too close for aunt and nephew. The father knew about the abortion but the intimacy of their relationship was too much for family to read about. Not saying they were physical but obviously she had that impression on him and it's a bit much to declare in words.
shareWhen she answers the door in her underwear and there's an obvious POV cut to show he's staring at her breasts: that's a hint. It's leading the audience somewhere, but never comes to anything. If it's an abortion unrelated to any other members of the household, why would that kill Charlie? It can't be about the mother's affair, the book was written before Michael finds out. It doesn't add up. I was sure there was going to be some secret between Jane and Michael.
"It's that kind of idiocy that I empathize with." ~David Bowie
I don't think it was incest. When Jane said that it will kill his father, i just thought that the book represented all the hate Michael had towards his father, and that will affect him really bad. That's it.
Sugar Cone.
I agree ^^
Because like a previous poster said, Michael by NOW, would have known that having sexual relations within your family is wrong. And I think he knew that even when he was 11/12 (however old he was when he was shown younger in the film) that it was wrong.
I also think she did have an abortion and that is why she was there, but I think the thing that is going to kill the father is having what he put Michael through as a child down on paper, he would have felt even worse after what happened to his mother that technically was his fault.... so I think that is what was going to kill him.
Also, Michael and Jane as they are older seem VERY comfortable together to me, IDK, if I was Jane/Michael, and I would have done something with my aunt/nephew, as I got older, I would feel very awkward around them.
PLUS, she was sent somewhere she didn't want to go to have an abortion, I really doubt that she would fool around again, and go through all of that all over again, especially at their house, with a younger person like Michael was to her.
I agree as well. I think Michael and Jane were allies in league against the father's cruelty. I also think it makes sense that they would have been awkward around each other as adults if they had been lovers in the past.
I don't think it was incest. When Jane said that it will kill his father, i just thought that the book represented all the hate Michael had towards his father, and that will affect him really bad. That's it.
"I don't think it was incest. When Jane said that it will kill his father, i just thought that the book represented all the hate Michael had towards his father, and that will affect him really bad. That's it.
Sugar Cone."
YES !!!
The secret in the book would be the abortion. If he had published the book, the family could have figured out she had an abortion that summer. In those times, it was customary for a girl to stay somewhere away from home until she had an abortion or had the baby. It was considered very shameful for her family, so it was always kept a secret.
As for that first night when Michael gave Aunt Jane the list of rules and looked at her chest, she just toyed with him and shut the door in his face. I see why that hinted at a sexual relationship. But ultimately, they just helped each other survive a rough time. Michael didn't know about the abortion, so Jane bonded with him easily because she could trust him. She also nurtured him through some dark times with his father Charles. Although they were really Aunt and nephew, they became more like cousins. That friendship lasted well into adulthood, and Michael still never found out about the abortion. No one ever knew except for Jane, Charles, and Lisa.
Michael & Jane did not sleep. They were just best friends. They were really close. The summer Jane spent at Taylors' House made them best friends.
The secret older Jane thought is in the book was that Lisa (Michael's mother) was sleeping with her young teacher Addison. She thought Michael knew it and wrote; because she hadn't read the book. Remember what Jane said: "That book is gonna kill your dad.", "Because of that book everyone is going to know."
And when Michael said "What Jane, what's everyone gonna know?" she started to laugh then, because she realised that Michael didn't know the secret about his mother.
I think you are spot on kdsagbas! I think that Jane thought Michael knew about the affair his mother was having.
share