Elizabeth Knox's reaction: - The Vintner's Luck (2009) Discussion

[–] sammie_leigh 14 years ago

I was just coming here to post a link to the NZ Herald article on her reaction

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501119&; amp;objectid=10610242

Knox said she wrote an email to Caro praising much of the movie but also calling it a "betrayal" for its treatment of the relationship.

She received a response that was polite, but a "great big cop-out", she said.

Knox said she would have been happy if Caro had ignored the tale and created a great new film, but that wasn't the case.

When contacted by The Dominion Post yesterday, Caro hung up and subsequently did not return phone messages.

So Niki Caro is a mega bitch then?

I don't even want to see this movie now. I've been looking forward to it for over a year and I've lost all interest in the past few weeks.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] sammie_leigh 14 years ago

I think she's more possibly a mega bitch for changing the plot so drastically. That whole book was about Xas and Sobran's relationship, I don't know how you can make a movie and not have that relationship present. Not really from what I've heard anyway.

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[–] wanderingseth 14 years ago

Well honestly... if you can work on a movie for seven years and completely misunderstand the source material to the extent of alienating your entire existing fan base, she must be mega stupid. She had a great number of fans dying to see that movie - myself included - and she betrayed them. Who does that? I'm no movie maker, and yet it's obvious to me that you don't turn your back on the people who are dying to support your work. Idiotic. What was she trying to do by getting rid of any traces of homosexuality... appeal to the religious community??

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[–] Kaiala 14 years ago

Yes, I just found a Google alert about this:

http://www.gaynz.com/articles/publish/2/article_8186.php

Here's a good quote:

The Dominion Post's Graeme Tuckett thought readers of the popular book might wonder why Caro left so much of the plot out. "The book's themes, its ideas, its ambitions, its madnesses, murders, and eroticism, not to mention half its plot, have all been chucked in the 'too difficult' basket and left out. And what is left over is not only nonsensical, it is bloody tedious."

I think Niki Caro was so obessessed with her "muse", Keisha Castle-Hughes, that she filmed everything around her, and was blind to anything else.

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[–] mimosa_mirabella 14 years ago

Woo hoo, that is so true. The Vintner's luck was/is definitely a cult favourite book. So many thousands of readers used to hope it would be turned into a film. It could have been one of the greats, if done right.

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[–] Zed-26 14 years ago

I am so shocked by everyone's responses.
How many of you have actually seen the film?
To judge a film by what a few reviewers have to say is ridiculous.
Who knows if the author's words weren't twisted in the article about her
to sway you against the film.

Have you ever thought that maybe Niki is trying to provoke you?
Trying to get you to think differently.
I for one have long gotten over expecting a film to be like the book.
Not only is it unrealistic but it's a set up for disappointment.
I am more excited than ever to see this film just cause people are so angry!!!!

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] eniko1 14 years ago

This isn't a thread about the general public's reviews. Our concern (and subsequent source of discontent) is the author's reaction to the movie adaptation of her book. This isn't a matter of the press blowing things out of proportion and exaggerating her reaction. She is genuinely disappointed with the product and feels like it's a far cry from the story that she wrote and intended the movie to communicate, at least in part. Her Facebook updates confirm what's in this article; she's not badmouthing Niki Caro, she's not livid, she's not overreacting and flying off the handle, but she is upset that the movie isn't her story, though it claims to be. Moreover, she's upset because she feels like SHE is the one that failed us. She says that she knew that the religious bits had been left out, but in the last screenplay she'd seen, there were still kisses and embraces between Xas and Sobran ("and Sobran lying in Xas's arms in the vineyard"), and Caro gave no indication that she would be eliminating all traces of that from the film. Knox was blindsided because she chose to trust the director with the work, and this gross deviation from the source material came as a surprise to her at the premiere.

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[–] Zed-26 14 years ago

If you are gonna believe the bad reviews how about reading a good one:
http://www.darkhorizons.com/news/15142/toronto-review-the-vintner-s-luck-

Though a New Zealand film, this lush, erotic and passionate film is more European with its frank exploration of sexuality and eroticism, yet the film’s lyrical beauty and intelligence makes it something quite unexpected. A film about humanity and spirituality, Caro directs this film with an exquisite sense of detail. Gorgeous in all facets of visual detail, "The Vintner’s Luck" is also a fascinating romantic melodrama, and at its core, comprises a cast that is spot on.

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[–] ghostguest-2 14 years ago

That is one of the few really positive reviews. There are plenty of mixed reviews and plenty disappointed. And I have seen the film.

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[–] Royalcourtier 14 years ago

The film hasn't been well received, and has been panned by critics and more or less shunned by movie goers.

But that is probably because it isn't a good film. I doubt it is because it doesn't promote homosexuality, unlike Elizabeth Knox. Most people aren't homosexual, and the majority would rather see heterosexual love affairs rather than homosexual ones.

In fact, perhaps many people are avoiding the film precisely because they heard that the book was about a sordid homosexual affair.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] wanderingseth 14 years ago

Royalcourtier's response missed the point. The film is suffering the absence of the movie-goers who have no problem with homosexuality, who enjoyed narratives like Brokeback Mountain, but who are horrified that film is a weak misfire. The people who would avoid a movie for its gay themes would never go to see The Vintner's Luck anyway, whether it was good or bad. So their response or lack thereof is entirely moot.

"Perhaps many people are avoiding the film precisely because they heard that the book was about a sordid homosexual affair."

Have you read the book? Sounds like you haven't.

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[–] mimosa_mirabella 14 years ago

Obviously RoyalCourtier hasn't read the novel.It is basically a work of gnosticism, not homosexuality. It could have been as good a film as "The Devil's Advocate" had it been done right!

There are many interesting elements integral to the novel which were ignored by the screenwriters. Celeste (Sobaran's wife), for instance, was a stronger presence than in the movie. If the director hadn't been so in love with those tedious closeups of grapeleaves and vines, perhaps she might have been able to get something of the Leon (Sobran's brother) subplot into the film.

And we all know who was left out! The very idea of Sobran performing a certain operation (in which he had no part in the book) was shockingly disrespectful to the author's imaginative creation.

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[–] emilygracey 14 years ago

If the director hadn't been so in love with those tedious closeups of grapeleaves and vines, perhaps she might have been able to get something of the Leon...

...And we all know who was left out! The very idea of Sobran performing a certain operation (in which he had no part in the book) was shockingly disrespectful to the author's imaginative creation.

Hear, hear! I thought I'd scream if I had to see one more shot of a bee on a leaf. Also, why is it that nearly every shot of Xas (even though he is never referred to by his name. He's just 'the angel.') is filmed in slow motion? The film really was criminal. I suppose if you went into the film having not read the book, it would just be a another period drama, albeit a rather boring one. If you have read and enjoyed the book, you are in for a severe shock. I literally sat the whole film twiddling my thumbs, waiting for more Xas. Key moments, themes, and characters are omitted all for the sake, so it seems, to avoid controversy.

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[–] Remnant_Of_The_Abyss 13 years ago

Cool. I went into this movie totally unaware that "the book was about a sordid homosexual affair." So I enjoyed it for what it was, as it unfolded.

So that's what many are upset about? That the film doesn't have homosexuality played up? This was a film about winemaking from what can see. It was a very good film and if it had any more of a hint about homosexuality than what it did have, I for one would not regard this as a good film, but a bad one. It had enough sex in it as it was, and personally I could have done without much of the heterosexual sex as it was.

If you need to see sex to ring your bell, watch a porno.

You know you've seen Fight Club enough times when you've seen it ONCE, ALL the way through!

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[–] smithmr 13 years ago

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree about this one. I left a much more detailed comment responding to your reaction on another thread. You have every right to like/dislike whatever you want (in this case homosexuality seems to be something you are not interested in viewing - which is totally your prerogative and I am not judging you for that one way or the other.) But trust me, the least interesting part of the original story was the winemaking, that was more like the shell of the story that was filled with WAY more interesting themes. And the fact that they made that the most prevalent part of the film just goes to show how much they missed the boat with this one.

Not everyone has the same tastes, I realize, and that is why a variety of films are made for a variety of different viewpoints. Sex is absolutely a vital element in film and any other form of pop culture/art, and it does not have to be explicit (or pornographic) to confirm its importance in being depicted. We will just have say we have a difference in opinion in this regard, and about the overall quality of the film. To me, there was no je ne sais quoi about the movie, no real mystery or anything interesting going on to give the film any real substantial value - it was like the filmmakers based the movie on the synopsis from the book jacket rather than the actual book itself. But if you were able to find enjoyment from this film, than good for you. To all the other fans of the book, this will always be a tragedy, and a waste of such talented actors/filmmakers.

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[–] Remnant_Of_The_Abyss 13 years ago

Yes, I did find enjoyment in this film, probably because I love wine and appreciate how it's made, so I can easily imagine what is going through the minds of the characters in this film at any given moment. I identify with them.

As far as sex being a vital element in film, I can't disagree, but I've seen plenty of films where it was hardly present at all and yet the film was fantastic. "Jean de Florette" is a prime example. I think that a movie titled "The Vintner's Luck" should be squarely focussed on winemaking and was disappointed to see as much sex as there was. I don't think it was necessary and in my opinion to hell with the book, this was a film and Directors *always* have their own interpretations. I suppose Caro felt the need to appeal more to the mainstream in her interpretation, while the followers of the book still have the book. That sounds like a fair compromise in my opinion.

Yes, we'll agree to disagree.

You know you've seen Fight Club enough times when you've seen it ONCE, ALL the way through!

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[–] smithmr 13 years ago

I love Jean de Florette! I haven't seen that film in years and now I really want to re-watch that. Thanks for mentioning that :^) I wish The Vintner's Luck came close to that film, with or without the plot elements from the book. Alas, for me, it isn't comparable in the slightest in terms of acting, filmmaking, story, and basically any other element that makes a good film. But I am glad you were able to relate to the characters and could identify with what they were going through.

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[–] Remnant_Of_The_Abyss 13 years ago

I'm glad to hear how much you enjoy Jean de Florette! Now for a confession: It's my favorite film of all time (not just foreign). Check out my list of "Top Foreign Language Films", there are a few in there that are similar (at least they highlight the French countryside) that may interest you.

http://www.imdb.com/list/qQvbXmXhhCU/

Cheers!

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