MovieChat Forums > Arn: Riket vid vägens slut (2008) Discussion > The 'Trap' (Spoilers...)

The 'Trap' (Spoilers...)

posted 15 years ago by mdv_666
8 replies | jump to latest

What was the trap that Arn and his Norweigan mate (Harald?) executed in the final battle?

All I saw was an expert archer - who could not judge how far his arrows would go or point that out to Arn in a clever way - who only shot the arrows when they could do damage to the enemy and not wasted them before... ...am I missing something? Admittedly, the arrows seemed to be very good ones, to wipe out cavallery and infantry alike, but still. I do not get it.

Am I the only one? Please, if someone knows, do explain!

[–] mathias-r 15 years ago

If I remember the books correctly, this trick was something Arn and Harald learned in the Holy Land (correct me if I'm wrong).
They would shoot one arrow to have a reference point. Then, they would wait until the enemy was in line with that arrow, and order the archers to fire. If you keep this in mind, you will see that Arn gives the order to fire just when the danish troops reach the arrow.

[–] dreamtears 15 years ago

huh, almost like what they did in Kingdom of Heaven then, the put up rocks that they painted white so they could see the rocks but not the enemy... and they waited until the enemy had passed the rocks before they started to fire

and this was in the holy land, so i guess you remember correctly

[–] mrdouglas_1999 14 years ago

It's a well-known secret that Ridley Scott was interested in doing 'Arn' as a movie or series of movies, but he was not able to get hold of Jan Guillou appreantly so he ended up making Kingdom of Heaven instead.

Thus there are many similarities in story/plot etc. As a matter of fact, both movies had several scenes filmed in Ouarzazate, Marocko. In fact, the Arn movies even used the same "Jerusalem" set/backdrop that was build for KoH, interestingly enough :)

[–] mdv_666 15 years ago

OK, thanks.
I read my post and saw that I was not very clear.

You see I still have some objections to it being a 'trap'. I think that this is exactly how a general would use his archers. Since each archer has a finite amount of arrows, it would be a waste to shoot the arrows before they could hit a target. If I recall correctly the archers were not hidden so the Danes would probably expect to be hit when they got within range. That is what I think is normal medieval warfare.

A trap would have been like in Braveheart when the archers ignite the tar (or oil or whatever Wallace had put in the ground), because the English were expecting normal arrows and found themselves in a sea of flames.

Well, this is just me ranting now. Again, thank you mathias-r.
And yes, I just found out how to use the spoiler tag...

[–] javlar 15 years ago

Yeah I did not really like the whole trap thing too much either. It would seem that any general would be weary of sending troops head first into a barrage of arrows, heavily armored or not.

It was a good while since I read the books but it happened quite differently if i remember it all correctly, I'm not sure the "trap" was even in it.

In the books the Danes invade Sweden twice. In their first attempt they bring a huge army to march from Denmark all the way up to the middle of Sweden. Arn and a handful of his best knights ride down and meet them halfway. They start a long campaign where they harass the slow moving army with quick skirmishes using light cavalry with mounted archers in the way the saracens did in the Holy Land. This was successful because the Danish army and (if the book is correct) most of the armies in northern Europe was unaware of this sort of tactic and how to counter it.

So the Danes first attempt is squashed and they return home with a decimated army.

The second attempt happens several years later and this time they come prepared with screening light cavalry of their own and eventually it leads to a final battle that plays out more or less like a full on melee free for all. The same thing happens at the end where Arn gets impaled with a halberd, kills the kings right hand knight and wins the battle.

Also in the book when they return home Arn spends a week or so being treated for his wounds even though they know they are fatal.

All in all the books are miles ahead of the movies, as is usually the case. The movies follow the books fairly well but sooo much is omitted and my main grievance is probably that the acting is sometimes almost embarrassing. The second book is all about Arns time in the Holy Land and there are like four or five giant battles with armies in the tens of thousands which in the movie seem more like small fights between hundreds of men.

But oh well. I hope I shed a little light at least and I fully agree that the so called "trap".. well, it might have worked the very first time an army faced archers, but not after that :P

[–] nils- 15 years ago

Jan Guillou's own theory(and he is known to have quite a few) as I understand it from his entertaining but seemingly nonfactual TV programs on Swedish history, is that Swedes wasn't at this time familiar with the use of the longbow.
According to that the danes probably didn't expect that the defenders would use such a technology, hence the "trap" thing.

[–] mnesterud 15 years ago

I would call it quite factual that none of the nordic countries had yet to recieve the concept of longbows or volleyshots at that time. In the books, the stronghold of "Forsvik" is used as a sort of bootcamp for a new kind warfare never seen in scandinavia. But also as an industry for massproducing arrows to supply the unskilled pessants with a way to join the standing army in the killing. Thus promoting them from mere (from the lack of a better word) cannon fodder to a deadly force to be reckoned with. Atleast that is my theory on the whole business with the "trap" or maybe we should just call it a "surprise move"

[–] p-o-thunder 14 years ago

It's not a trap per say, it's more like a tactic. The Swedish/norwegian archers werent seen by the danes and thats why they felt comfortable to launch the attack thinking they could ride over the swedes.

The "trap" is that the swedish archers have the ground zeroed in and thus when given orders they release their deadly arrows.
Remember that Arn is an crusader from the holy land were he learned the principal of longbow archery and tactic from british crusaders.
The result being that the greater part of the danish cavalry gets torn up and also make the danish king and his marshal second guess the situation for a minute.

If you have any problem with the authencity of the battle i suggest you read a book....OR why not watch the miniserie/documentary "Arns rike" which is about roughly how Sweden became a nation.
With this very battle discussed in detail. btw the danish invading army were as big as 12000 at this time with veterans from wars with european armies.