MovieChat Forums > Game of Thrones Discussion > Why does everyone disliked the ending?

Why does everyone disliked the ending?


I read a lot of posts here on this GOT board and I am honestly surprised why there are so many negative and disappointments? I guess you all had expectations of you wanted the ending to be but GOT of was never written that way and never what we expected or wanted really happened in this show.

I already knew from early seasons that Danny will never become the queen at the end of this show, to me the signs and clues to who she was there but many of a her hard core FANBOY club believed she was the one. So her death was not surprise to me but I didn't think it would be Jon but maybe Arya, but I knew that Dany's character in the story was written as warning of people who claim right to power. My guess for the king was actually Tyrion or one of the Starks, so Bran was actually a nice surprise and fitting to the theme of the story and Tyrion was a perfect to be the hand, because these two both never were seekers of power. The rest of the characters such as Sansa who also wanted the North to be independent, it made logical sense , Arya's character to be a survivor and now adventurer into discovery new places also fit the story's ending.

And finally Jon's sentence to go back to the Night's watch. John joined the night's watch in the very first season of this show, he wanted to find a way to find freedom of being called a bastard , but his core beliefs and teaching on ethics came from Ned Stark to always do the right thing. He killed Danerys for the threat that she was to the people and his punishment was actual fitting to theme of the story; if you recall what Tormund said to Jon last week's episode that your heart is in the north you belong to the north, that was a clue to me that Jon will return to the North but it happened unexpected sentence of punishment. Jon's riding out with the freefolk that he helped with Tormund next to him was actually a happy ending for Jon and very fitting for a man who never really wanted to be a leader. Not every person like Jon or Ned Stark, who always does the right thing; makes sacrifices to free people or fight for the people and give his life to a cause would end up getting what he really deserves; this was what to me GOT was always about, its not that life is fair; its just life and its unfair harsh realities that we come to accept. The saddest seen to me was when Jon said good-bye to Sansa and Arya because to me the Stark family was what got broken and damaged by it; they were the collateral damage of games and lies for power.

This entire show was dealing with a running theme of POWER, that's why it was called "Game of thrones", because to attain power is a game to those who seek it and killed for it and ended up getting killed; then those who never really wanted it but it came to them through unexpected circumstances and choice due to their character like Jon or Bran.

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For me the biggest issue is this season just felt rushed.

The first episode introduces us to the whitewalkers and they are made throughout the series to be a massive threat so I expected more than just one battle. It would have been better to have a season with them battling the dead and then a final season for the fight for the throne.

Also there are small signs of dannys madness like her killing prisoners but not enough to lead her to killing everyone. This also felt rushed

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you are 100% correct on both issues and there were actually many other aspects of the story that was edited and butchered it books and cut the show shorter and shorter seasons by the two Hollywood greedy pricks D & D who caused a huge incoherence in the entire arc of the story too. If you go and listen youtube and listen to RR Martin interviews that he said several times that the show should have gone over 10 seasons, with exactly 10 episodes each, and what I don't understand is here is this hit show on HBO with a global audience, that is making these two so rich and famous, along with the cast, then why would you want to cut it shorter to catch up with the books? why would would you want to end it sooner than the books that are not written? these are things that I will never understand about Hollywood decisions, because a show like GOT will come once in maybe 20 or 30 years and we have not had anything to even compare to and the audience and fans would have watched it for another 5 years without missing one episode but the TV/cable world is just as chaotic and uncertain as the 7 kingdoms...Lol

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I agree. I have no problem with Dany being killed, because 'she needed to die' but the writers needed to do a better job of SHOWING us why.

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The writers or the two pricks D&D were rewriting the show by editing the books to end the show, for whatever reason which does not make sense, but this rush also killed parts of the development of the story as to why", where its missing and caused an incoherence. These two were trying to rewrite something that was way over their head, I mean RR Martin took maybe about 20 years to write the first few books and then these two want to edit a masterpiece ?

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This entire show was dealing with a running theme of POWER, that's why it was called "Game of thrones", because to attain power is a game to those who seek it and killed for it and ended up getting killed; then those who never really wanted it but it came to them through unexpected circumstances and choice due to their character like Jon or Bran.


That's a rather scant and empty excuse for all of the characters and backstories featured throughout the series being relegated to 5th wheel plot devices. EVERY story ever told is about conflict over power, love, and self-preservation. You can take any story ever told and it will involve 90% of the same plot elements seen in GoT.

Season 8 was rushed to bring resolution so D&D could go work on Star Wars and HBO could start developing the prequels to milk more money off the GRRM fantasy world. There's no other way to explain the half-ass battle of Winterfell that conveniently brought a 100% end to "Winter Coming". Bran's 3rd Eye omnipotence is the ultimate jumping the shark imho because it devalues the whole concept of story development and why we as the audience felt the tension of the Night King's encroachment.

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"Season 8 was rushed to bring resolution so D&D could go work on Star Wars and HBO could start developing the prequels to milk more money off the GRRM fantasy world"

I agree that yes season 6, 7, and 8 were all rushed and 8 was a mini compare to the rest of the series, and if you ever read my previous posts on D&D then you know that I think they are both two greedy pricks, typical Hollywood jerks who exploited a writer for his great novel; even RR Martin was not happy how the show caught up with the books because D&D butchered the books and edited the very essential parts of the story that caused an incoherence to the rest of the story, that's why people like you notice the lack of story development. The whole show is missing the issue of development in many parts; its all goes back to these producers who even had the audacity to finish the story in their own version when the books have not ended yet?. Why would HBO and these two jerks rush to end this show when its had a global success and it could have go another 5 seasons with the same fans who were hungry for more? this is something I will never understand about that industry?

Also you generalized my statement about Power and you think every story is about love and power, etc,? I am sorry again you are missing the point because this show was unlike other shows, if you bother to read even the first book then you may understand that Martin's point goes deeper. Those that were in power from the start Robert, Ned Stark, Lanisters, Frays, Boltons, Jon Snow, and Deanrys,, each represents the many aspects and features of power structure; such as strength, deception, claim, justice, ambition, manipulation, ruthlessness, vanity, fear and all of these is bound by the element of FATE. Ned Stark was a man of virtue and yet he was killed for his principles; Cersi could not control the death of her children either that was echo of how the universe is so chaotic, that had been the core message of this entire show that nothing is certain or they way we want things to be in life.

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I generalized your statement because it was a generalized statement in itself. The books have no say in this discussion because it's about the TV series and how D&D adapted it, poorly.

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My problem with the ending (last episode) is that it was just okay... did I hate it... No... did I think it was fantastic... No...

But to me the issue is not only with the last episode it is really with the pacing in the last 2 seasons... so I guess the last episode was just a reflection of that...

A lot of the story archs just wasn't developed enough to have an impact because everybody just moved around Westoros way to fast... Was I suprised Jon killed Dany... No (I do not think anybody was)... which kind of made that scene very flat because their relationship wasn't developed enough... What the last 2 seasons were missing... was a lot of those WTF moments (Ned getting killed, the red wedding, Jon getting killed, Hodor's hold the door moment, Oberyn getting his skulls cruseh etc.) all emotional scenes because we cared about the characters and their stories... You could argue that Bran being chosen as the new king was a WTF moment... but it was more of a why moment? It didn't seem right or make sense... Like it didn't make sense that Dorne and/or the Iron Born... just kept quiet when Sansa wanted an independent North... Why Jon was kept alive by the Unsulied and Dothdraki... and so on...

I agree with someone on here that Dany burning down Kings Landing should have been season end episode and not the 2nd to last episode... The final season could have been the rebuild of King Landing... the political power struggle (who should be king, independence for the North, Dorne Iron Islands etc.)... more time to develop Jon and Dany relationship and her quest for total control over Westeros (Mad Queen)...

So what I am trying to say is that I understand a lot of the final conclusions... but they did not have an emotional impact... which made the final episode very mediocre...

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Maybe being mediocre is the whole point.

The throne itself is pointless, power is fleeting and real change that benefits the majority isn't exactly emotionally satisfying.

Didn't Tyrion say that no-one 'No-one is really happy. It is a good compromise I suppose'

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Sure... but it is still entertainment so you shouldn't aim to be mediocre... If you want the conclusion to be that the Iron Throne is pointless you should be able to do that while still making an exciting episode/ending...

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It definitely subverted the trope.

But that is the thing I'm not saying it was a great episode, but we've watched a show about politics and aftermaths in real life are boring and messy and no-one is happy and the people who we think should get power very rarely do.

Guess that was what they were going for - that and getting out to get to their new project

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We agree with boring... but was it really messy? They agreed rather quickly on who should be king... Only Sansa made a claim for an independant North which was accepted without any debate... everybody else kept quiet and then we got all our 'friendly' heroes to sit on the new council... wasn't really messy at all...

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If you spend five minutes to think about the aftermath then it is messy. A handful of Lords who have burnt a lot bridges with their people and each other quickly deciding who gets to be King? And they pick an outsider gets voted in to rule the South while the Kingdom he is from goes walk about?

I get the unsullied head to Narth - sure it is because Grey Worm loved Messandai. But do the peaceful people of Narth get a say in it? They are peaceful but the slavers only just raid? Something fishy there. Maybe the people of Narth have a deal going on that lets them be left alone for the majority of the time and even if not an army who just turns up on your doorstep for your 'protection'??

And what about the Dorkathi? They staying in Westeros or going with the unsullied? If they go anywhere what are they going to do? They aren't farmers Dany still had a large enough number of them to be prominant at Dany's speech. They planning to continue their own way of life? Won't go down well in Narth or in Westeros and in Essos will it be easy to go back to what they had?

Bronn gets the Reach? What about all the Lords who served the Tyrells? What is their say on it?

Sam has oath broken from one side of the continent to the other - but he gets to be Grandmaester? Something fishy there.

Gendry is Lord of the Stormlands because of Dany? Sure Bran could back him up but can't say whoever was looking after the Stormlands before that is going to be happy and not have local support.

The Iron Islands didn't demand to stay independent like the North did - how is that going to play in the Iron Islands? Because that means Yara is meant to be their 'Queen' and she didn't tell the other six kingdoms that hate them she was staying that? But Sansa did?

The prince of Dorne - where was he when the Sand Snakes were running amoke? Is his power solid.

The council looked easy but you spend five minutes thinking then it is a bit messy about the outcomes of all of them

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That is why that should have had an extra season to expand on all those ideas... Because none of what you mention was hinted at in the final episode... everything seemed fine... sure I could imagine everything that could go worng (I believe I already mentioned a couple) but that should have been shown... Starting with Dorne and the Greyjoys wanting independence...

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> Bronn gets the Reach? What about all the Lords who served the Tyrells?
> What is their say on it? Sam has oath broken from one side of the continent to the other -
> but he gets to be Grandmaester? Something fishy there.

Well I guess that’s a matter of "the more things change, the more they stay the same".
The Kings of Westeros or their Hands always decided as it suited them who gets which piece of land and which position. We’ve seen that. Obviously, having an elected Kind didn’t change that.

> Gendry is Lord of the Stormlands because of Dany? Sure Bran could back him up but can't say whoever
> was looking after the Stormlands before that is going to be happy and not have local support.

Ummm… WAS there anybody who looked after the Stormlands?

> The Iron Islands didn't demand to stay independent like the North did - how is that
> going to play in the Iron Islands?

As I’ve said before in other threads: The Iron Islands are probably very weak at the moment. Think about that: A great part of the Ironborn followed Euron. Most of them are probably dead by now. The other ones that followed Yara… most of them were killed by Euron in Season 7. So chances are that Yara has only very few people left. It was easy to take the Iron Islands with them (because no one was left on the Islands to stop her) but to keep them alive on islands that practically have no resources to make a living, that’s a different thing. So for now, it IS the logical choice to stay part of the Six Kingdoms to receive help. That may change at some point in the future.


> The prince of Dorne - where was he when the Sand Snakes were running amoke? Is his power solid.

PROBABLY not. That’s why he didn’t declare independence.
But yes, I also hated it that after the Sand Snakes were killed we learned NOTHING anymore about Dorne except that they have a new Prince. I think we didn’t even get to learn his name, or was it mentioned at some point and I missed it?

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The primary reason for the dislike is that the last season was obviously rushed; most people do not have too much of an issue with WHAT happened but with HOW it happened. Beginning with the defeat of the night king being way to fast, episode 4 rushing through building the tension between Jon and Dany while also rushing through Dany taking heavy losses (thus thrusting her forward at neck break speed to full blown madness), Varys plotting treason getting caught and executed in the span of about 10 minutes of screen time, then the defeat of King's Landing took like 7 minutes (despite all of the talk about the odds being even), then the flip of full murderous Hitler like mass murder and speeches from Dany, to Jon having having 3 lines of dialogue with her then killing her, then the final council was probably the most painful rush job to get to Bran being the new king.

Dany nor Jon getting the throne would be very fitting I agree, but Bran comes out of absolutely nowhere, a surprise has to have some build up otherwise it is just jarring. And what are you talking about Tyrion not being a seeker of power, he specifically says he likes the power multiple times throughout the series and was constantly pushing for his right to Casterly Rock as much as Dany claimed the throne. Sorry but that is just incorrect, Tyrion was a seeker of power.

Sansa being queen of an independent North when her brother, the legitimate heir of the north, is the King of all Westeros does not in anyway make logical sense; nor doe sit make sense that Dorne and the Iron Island do not demand the same independence. This is another thing that would need much more explanation.

The problem with Jon is the last season they robbed him of all agency, reduced his lineage to a throwaway plot toll to inspire another characters arch (Dany's madness) and then send him back to the night watch. WHY THE HELL IS THERE STILL A NIGHT'S WATCH ANYWAY? Even Jon brings up how silly that is. Continued...

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...
It would have been fine if Jon turned down being ruler and choose to go back north with Tormund and Ghost, but forcing him there for nonsensical plot reasons (making the unsullied happy even though they are foreigners without a queen and leaving westeros anyway) after already making him a rather useless character the entire last season.

Also the lines from Bran about "why do you think I came all this way" and "you were exactly where you were supposed to be" after he is made king is disquieting to say the least.

Yes GoT always tried to simulate reality in a fantasy world and that is what made it unique but when the excuses for characters behaving strangely or stupidly is "well they kind of forgot" that means the writers failed to delivery.

I disagree with the Theme of the show being about power, it seemed more like power and all the peddling politics were distractions from the real threat; but that threat is dealt with and forgotten about in a single episode and then rushed back to the power dynamic; The show might be called Game of Thrones but the series is called "A Song of Ice and Fire" there is other things at work besides the battle for the throne. But it seems the writers 'kind of forgot' about that.

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My personal dissatisfaction with Season 8 began before even most people, I was already unhappy by the end of episode 2. the first 2 episodes were utterly and completely boring with nothing much happening. I knew this was going to be a problem because there was only 6 episodes in total; things needed to start moving more. Personally I think it would have played out better if Dany found out about Jon's lineage at the end of episode 1 and then episode 2 would see characters such as Sansa, Tyrion, Varys etc all choosing sides while preparing for the night kind. This would have given more tension and build up for episode 2 leading to the ultimate turn that Dany makes.

Episode 3 was fine for the big climatic battle with the night king but the tactics the living side makes were painfully bad, the cinematography was god awful, and Jon should have been much more involved in the defeat of the night king himself. Even if Arya delivers the final blow Jon should have been there instead of yelling at a dragon like an idiot. Also characters having plot armor stronger than mithril was a bit much; some more main characters should have died; such as Jaime dying protecting Bran would have been fitting. Grey Worm I wished would have died just because I can't stand him and his arch was dumb the rest of the season anyway. Sam should have been in the crypts and found some info that would help with the NK; same with Bran he did basically nothing useful since season... you know what I don't know if he was ever useful now that I think about it. Useful things happened because of him but he did nothing useful. For example him getting thrown out the window was the catalyst for the War of the Five kings, but he did not contribute anything useful to that. That seem to be how his entire character went.

I could go on with my preferences for Season 4, 5 and 6 but I do not consider those valid criticism and only my personal taste, I can save that for my own discussion.

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While I agree on almost everything you say, I still have to disagree here:
> nor doe sit make sense that Dorne and the Iron Island do not demand the same independence.

I referred to that in the posting that is (currently) right above yours, no need to type it again.

Regardings the Night’s Watch: Well, the Wall isn’t needed anymore, but it won’t just melt down, and tearing it down would take years if not decades. They could leave the gates to the tunnel open at all times, but somebody has to check the stability of the tunnel. But for that, I’d be enough if from time to time some builders come by to check on that.
So: No, you’re right, there’s no need for the Night’s Watch anymore. Unless they want to keep it in order to send people there as a punishment as they did before. But uuggh, that’s cruel because they’ve got nothing to do. They’d probably bore themselves to death.

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I can agree that the Iron Islands are in a weak position and that might make it in their interest to stay a part of the kingdom, but Dorne is certainly not weak. Also more importantly the Iron Islands are weak but in compared to what? Who is the force or Army that would compel them to stay in the 6 kingdoms?

The Iron Fleet is gone, the lannister army is gone, the Taryl army is gone, how much of the reach and Stormlands forces are left, and would they even support Bran if he needed to muster up an army? Why would the northern army or the unsullied or dothraki fight for Bran if he asked them to? Currently Bran is a king with no army and couldn't even get support from his sister. The only army that would be 'available' would be from Dorne but if they demanded independence like the North than I see no reason why anyone would feel compelled to stay in, especially since that is was Yara was pushing for in the first place.

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> but Dorne is certainly not weak.

We don’t know that. As far as I remember, they never mentioned how many Dornishmen were on the ships that were destroyed by Euron. Moreover, the new ruler might have a weak position at the moment OR he might be very much like Doran who tried to avoid a conflict at any cost. Of course that’s all speculation, because, well… they DAMN IT didn’t drop a single line regarding the current state of Dorne. (The "damn it" was shouted out at the writers, not at you.)

> Who is the force or Army that would compel them to stay in the 6 kingdoms?

No, I meant that it’s not unlikely that they not even have enough men left to continue their "raiding and plundering" life style. At least not enough to feed the mouths of all women, children and old people that still live on the Iron Islands.

However, yesterday I re-watched S08E06 and I noticed that right at the moment when Sansa declares independence, they cut to Yara and the Dornish Prince… he raises his eyebrows and she puts on a sceptical face.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/gv9qf3klrjqoccj/gotfinale01.png

So maybe I was wrong and they DID think: "Seven Hells, why wasn’t I thinking of that?" and then, yes, it’d be stupid that they didn’t jump up to follow Sansa’s example.

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>they never mentioned how many Dornishmen were on the ships that were destroyed by Euron. Moreover, the new ruler might have a weak position at the moment OR he might be very much like Doran who tried to avoid a conflict at any cost.

If I remember correctly (I could be wrong on this) in Season 7 I thought they were on their way to get the Dornish Army together; that they did not bring it to Dragonstone. Yes because of how rushed and butchered the Dorne Storyline was we really have no idea what the condition they are in.

>Of course that’s all speculation, because, well… they DAMN IT didn’t drop a single line regarding the current state of Dorne. (The "damn it" was shouted out at the writers, not at you.)

Exactly, i feel you on this one.

>No, I meant that it’s not unlikely that they not even have enough men left to continue their "raiding and plundering" life style.

Why not? You don't need a lot of ships to do a little raiding and plundering. Considering that nearly the entire realm is without central control or a standing army yet seems like perfect time to start.

>So maybe I was wrong and they DID think: "Seven Hells, why wasn’t I thinking of that?" and then, yes, it’d be stupid that they didn’t jump up to follow Sansa’s example.

Realistically the second that Tyrion brought up crippled useless creepy Bran as his selection he should have been laughed at like Sam was for suggesting democracy and then Grey Worm beheads Tyrion for being so stupid. Then Sansa just says 'screw burned down King's landing and screw the Targaryen unity, let us all be independent' That actually would have been a more satisfying ending. Jon can't get the option to be King because there is no kingdom anymore. He can go where he likes and choices to go back with the wildlings.

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> crippled useless creepy Bran

He’s not THAT useless. A King who knows everything there is to know IS quite handy.*
Nonetheless – I like your ending!


*) Didn’t occur to me before – when Arya finds out what’s west of Westeros, she doesn’t even have to report back. The moment she knows, he knows. (Or at least, that knowledge is available to him once he checks for it.)

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>He’s not THAT useless. A King who knows everything there is to know IS quite handy.

He would be more useful as a master of whisperers, not as a king; knowing things is not the same as having the skill to manage them. As the last small console meeting shows he is just too disconnected to be effective at ruling, thus making Tyrion the 'true' ruler. But thanks for the compliment, but really just about any ending would have been better.

>The moment she knows, he knows. (Or at least, that knowledge is available to him once he checks for it.)

They don't do a good job of exposing his power or its limits; from the Books it is supposed to be tied in with the weirwood trees. So I guess it would depend on if he can see literally everything all around the world or if it is limited to areas that are connected to the weirwood network. But then the show seems to ignore this completely. So who knows, maybe Arya the Explorer doesn't need to report back.

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One more thing regardings the Iron Islands…
In another thead (https://moviechat.org/tt0944947/Game-of-Thrones/5cec2a5126512074f3d9e477/Need-Some-Help-Regarding-6-Kingdoms) it’s mentioned that Yara now rules the Iron Island AND the Riverlands. If that really was said in the final episode, I missed it.
But that of course would be reason for her not to declare independence because then, the others could’ve said: "Alright, you stay on your stupid barren rock and the Riverlands are run by stupid Edmure Tully."

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I do not think that source knows what they are talking about, unless they are basing the ruler of the riverlands off of who ruled over the 'rivers' area during Aegon's conquest, that is the only time the iron islands and the Riverlands were ruled by the King of the Iron Islands. The riverlands had been their own distinct region with no ties to the Iron Islands before or since then.

Where in the show does it suggest that Yara rules the Riverlands while Edmure Tully is still alive?

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Because it sucked on so many levels.

The sudden madness of Danny. Bran schemes to grab the throne. The stupid voting (when Sansa said that she's on her own ALL would have done the same). The stealing of a 1000 years golden path from Dune (of well, actually the show - ok, the books - stole a LOT from the Dune - Jon, Aria, etc)

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The books are nothing like Dune.

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Really?

There is no Arya in the books? No face dancers? No political schemes?

Paul is a combination of Danny and Jon.

Leto ii and Alia, destined to rule together but Alia loses her mind and dies, just like Danny.

Bran is immortal (practically) and rules the Westeros for a thousand years, just like Leto II?

Been geserit are the clear inspiration for the priestess of the light.

Freemens and wildlings.

Etc etc.

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There's no extra sister that wanders off and becomes a face-changing assassin. Political schemes are all over the place, but how they are implemented are very different than how they were done in GOT. That, and the good guys do eventually get rewarded for their hard work, whereas in GOT, good guys get punished or killed for being good.

Paul is nothing like Danaerys or Jon. He is not ruthless or an outcast that rejects the throne. He had the promise of being a great ruler and he fulfilled that. Unlike Dany, Alia was born in a very creepy, unconventional way, and never had a chance at having a normal mind develop within her. To be fair, killing Alia basically saved the universe, and it was not done with a knife through the heart. Last time I checked, Daenerys did not have the memories and personalities of hundreds of her ancestors living inside her head, nor did she murder her own grandfather when she was 5 years old. She also had no unusual abilities beyond surviving fire at least once, and for that, I think Martin really missed an opportunity. And for the record, I do not consider anything that happened to Daenerys after Season 5 to be canon, so we can leave that crap in the garbage bin of the tv GOT franchise.

Leto II is a much better-developed character than Bran, and, uh, since when did Bran graft thousands of sand worm larvae onto his body and turn into a giant worm-man that lived for thousands of years? Bran also did not marry his own sister, but let her keep a consort to produce heirs, while keeping their marriage platonic.

The Bene Gesserits were not constant murderers and bloodthirsty nutjobs like the Priestesses of the Light. They also didn't give birth to dark, shadow creatures. Much of the time they were into political maneuvering and had secret breeding programs going on. I never heard anything about them holding human sacrifices or leading bloodthirsty cults. In fact, the Bene Gesserits could do things that would make Missandei look like an amateur birthday magician.

The Fremen were nothing at all like the Wildings. They were an organized set of tribes with a distinct warrior desert culture. These are people who not only could ride giant worms through the desert, they were masters of technology involving the worms as well as conserving water. That, and they were brilliant military strategists that could make the Harkonnen armies look like fools out in the desert.

Your comparisons are very flimsy, and are mixing up various books within the Dune series. That, and while George R.R. Martin is a creative writer, he has no clue how to follow the formula of the Hero's Journey like Frank Herbert did.

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Did i say that it was a 100% copy? I don't remember that.

I said that the books stole, as inspiration, a lot from Dune. A LOT.

Whatever you want or not to acknowledge.

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