MovieChat Forums > Game of Thrones (2011) Discussion > Daenerys Targaryen: a cautionary tale ?

Daenerys Targaryen: a cautionary tale ?

posted 5 years ago by Birdmant7 (202)
23 replies | jump to latest

I think Dany's quest for power was written as a cautionary tale in GOT, just because she is of royal blood; just because she has been resourceful, determined, gained armies and allies or that she really believes she will be a good ruler; does all this mean she should become the queen? Dany exemplifies a person whose hunger for power gradually consumed her, it created fear in her; fear for someone who is never had real power is also very dangerous thing. Fear can mutate to blind suspicion, anger and hate. Dany's decision to kill Varys was because he spoke the truth, that she really is not fit to be the queen, Dany would even kill Sansa if she could or anyone else she thinks is a threat?. She is not mad, she was just a spoiled brat that got consumed by power, because she never had it before. She never leaned its meaning, she never grew up with her family to learn and understand what it means to be a ruler, otherwise she would not let her emotions and hatred of Cersi to burn an entire city and kill women and children; knowing full well that her father was the mad king that almost did the same. From the time Dany set on that quest of the thrown, she had a self-entitlement attitude that she is the rightful heir and the her people are waiting for her; then she burns her people without mercy; people who she came to rescue. After all her struggles and accomplishments she never really understood the real meaning of what it really means being a leader; a good leader is tempered and measured as Vary said that about "jon", but Jon grew up and learned from a leader of the north "Ned Stark", to be a leader it also means you are responsible to the people who you are going to rule, Dany has never really understood that, all she did was moan about that she is the right heir to the Iron throne, its like a mantra for the entire show. I think a lot of people missed the entire point about Dany's character in GOT, even supported her but they dismissed the red flags about her misplaced expectations as if she had the right to the throne because of being a Targaryen.

[–] Otter (24464) 5 years ago

Except that they didn't write her as being gradually consumed by power. As late as last season, she was politely putting her quest for the throne aside to fight for the living against the dead, not a quibble about what she was giving up, not a complaint about her lost ambitions, not a frowny face or quiver of temper, just a few dainty tears when Jon got her dragon killed. Just dedication to the cause of the Living, from the moment she first saw the Others to the Battle of Winterfell.

Honestly, the events in King's Landing should have been the climax of a slow build, she should have been getting closer and closer to the edge for a while now. But that's not how they wrote it.

[–] Birdmant7 (202) 5 years ago

I really think you should go back and watch some of the episodes from season 3, 4, 5 and others.?
her entire attitude from the start was that she is has the right to throne due to her blood being a Targaryen,
that's arrogance that was very clear. so why do you think people like Sansa, Arya, Varys and Sam all recognized that
arrogance and what happened last week and how she reacted did NOT surprised me at all, as it may have to other viewers because she killed the Tarlys for no reason, where she could have locked them as prisoners and try to win them as allies but her ego didn't let her to prove she is in charge and that was a mistake.

That self-entitlement attitude is the issue you are missing the point. If Jon never came to ask for her help she would not even
bother to find out what was going on and look how much Tyran had to talk to her to get her to be diplomatic, she has no clue about diplomacy because she was never exposed to that way in her life, all she knows and her brother greedy wanted was that they had the right to the throne and she proved at the end with her actions that she is not concerned what being a leader means.

But you believe what you want; you don't seem to get RR Martin based GOT on historical events such as War of the Roses and the quest for power, how power shifted from one person to another and what it took to attain it, this is not about Good versus evil, Dany's story is meant for us to see that yes she may have all the right and yes she may accomplished to get there but she is missing the core element of being a leader.

[–] Otter (24464) 5 years ago

"her entire attitude from the start was that she is has the right to throne due to her blood being a Targaryen,that's arrogance that was very clear. so why do you think people like Sansa, Arya, Varys and Sam all recognized that arrogance"

Uh, Sansa, Arya, and Sam all totally believe in the right to inherit lordships, lands, castles, and kingships by because of primogeniture (birth and birth order), and that if anyone takes anything you have a right to by inheritance then you should start a war with them, BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THAT CULTURE WORKS. Why do you think Sansa pushed Jon into making war on Ramsay Bolton? Because she was pissed about the way he'd treated her? No, because he'd stolen the Stark lands and castles and titles! So she started a war to get the family lands and titles and castle back, and that means Sansa did exactly the same thing that Danerys has been doing, only on a smaller scale, BECAUSE THAT'S HOW THAT CULTURE WORKS. So if Sansa dislikes Danerys, it's not because she disapproves of starting wars to claim your birthright.

I really do sense a common thread in all the statements from people who think Danyerys was nuts all along, they don't understand Medieval law and politics, and they don't understand the laws and politics of Westeros.

And BTW, there's no such word as "self-entitlement".

[–] Birdmant7 (202) 5 years ago

"I really do sense a common thread in all the statements from people who think Danyerys was nuts all along"

I never said she was "nuts" in any of my posts here.
Although your points are some what valid, but your comparison of what Stark's lost as a family, how they Rob and his wife and mother were killed, how Bolton betrayed them to take their castle and become the authority of the North. How Sansa was used to marry Ramsay to secure their name in the North. We all witnessed all of this on this show and yes the Starks had every right to take what was really stolen from them and I don't agree with what Sansa did with Jon, but she also changed through years of abuse from the time her father was killed to the marriage to Ramsey. I am sorry I can't compare the loss of what Danerys claims to what the Starks did. She also knows very little of her father's history or who her father really was, The Mad King, that burned people and was going the burn the entire city down, then her brother who had an affair with Ned's sister and married in secret, then a war based on a lie by Robert created it; yes that caused the Danerys's loss due to that war; not how the Lanisters bribed the Frays and Bolton's to turn on the Starks and how their family was killed and what the aftermath of their death did to the Stark's kids to break apart , the damage of how they lost both parents and brothers and then you think Sansa and Arya to get back what was stolen was just about inherit the lordships and castle?...Seriously? if you really think that then I guess there is nothing to discuss further on this topic with you.

I never said Danerys is mad or nuts; but to me her misplaced expectations and harping on her blood right is what I always had a problem with, from the start of this show and so far last week's episode just proved what I expected.

[–] Otter (24464) 5 years ago

Everyone in the show harps on their blood rights and uses methods considered illegal and immoral today to claim them, except those who have joined orders where they deliberately give up the rights of clan/family membership, such as the Kingsguard and Night's Watch.

So if you don't understand the way that society works and what their concept of "rights" is, after years of watching the show, I agree we have nothing to say to each other.

[–] Birdmant7 (202) 5 years ago

"Everyone in the show harps on their blood rights and uses methods considered illegal and immoral today to claim them" "if you don't understand the way that society works and what their concept of "rights" is, after years of watching the show,

You know you make all these bold statements without even any examples of who is this "everyone" that you are referring to? And to what society or universe are we referring to or do you live in that your concepts of Rights" is based on blood rights?. I don't recall anyone else harping about their blood rights other than Danerys,? But you found out how wrong you were after your illogical rants that it is YOU that after years of watching the show that are WRONG. It's you who does not even understand reading novels; what is a narrative line, themes, characters that are written to project a deeper symbol that ties to the theme of the entire story. Go back and watch Season one when Cersi explains to Ned Stark what she said about how the "Games of thrones" work.

As I stated when I wrote this thread Danerys's character was written as a cautionary tale, as a warning, that yes just because she may have all the blood right and ingredients to be a leader, but she is not fit to be a queen; she was never going to be in the story, but people like you who just want to argue a point; due to some egotistical conviction because they think they are always right, you just found out how wrong you were with the final episode and how your birth blood right queen Danerys's got even more consumed by power as if she was getting off on it; that she became even more irrational to justify why she killed all those people and blamed Cersi, she wanted to decide who is good, so She got exactly what she deserved by Jon.

You really never got to understand GOT was about, because you refused to see the clues Danerys. I knew Jon will never be king but my guess was either Tyran or one of the Starks; Bran was what made it fit theme of GOT.

[–] lmorgan2820 (66) 5 years ago

Someone who was abused up and when she was first with Drago was doing fairly well and I would say NOT spoiled! Sansa was spoiled, Up until her father's beheading!
Also, Dany listened and asked Tyrion to be her hand. She listened to him and lost her Dragon! She asked the advice of others and listened to Jorah. Good leaders listen to different opinions and she did knowing she didn't know everything.

[–] prometheus1816 (1051) 5 years ago

And look at what Sansa did. She lied to Jon twice. The first was at Castle Black when she didn't tell him how she found out The Blackfish had retaken Riverrun. Which Brienne called her out on, but it's Sansa....the most abused woman in the realm and a Stark so she has the heaviest plot armour other than Arya. The next time she lied to Jon was in not telling him about the Knights of the Vale and the possibility of them coming to help against the Boltons. She was willing to let Jon die, heck she let Rickon die, all because she turned cold and didn't tell Jon what he needed to know. The last time she betrayed Jon was in telling Tyrion about Jon's birthright even though he swore her to secrecy. Ned kept that secret until his death. Yet here is Sansa within moments of being told blabs to Tyrion who in turn blabs to Varys.

Dany was called a usurper and a foreign invader. She was born in Westeros. Born to a King and his wife, though I still think she and Jon were twins. Cersei kept up that fallacy even to the point of the Tarlys believing it. And yet when Dany passed the sentence and swung the sword, the rules were suddenly different for her than it's been for Jon, Ned, etc. Sansa doesn't listen to anyone. NO ONE, yet Dany is the "mad one".

[–] lmorgan2820 (66) 5 years ago

I agree. Good points.

[–] prometheus1816 (1051) 5 years ago

Thank you.

[–] lmorgan2820 (66) 5 years ago

Agreed! She raised herself and educated herself even with a brother who sold her like a brood mare! Etc.

[–] EloraWood (158) 5 years ago

of course she thought that way, that she is the rightful heir to the throne - she has been told that a Targaryan should rule Westeros since she was little. She has never known anything else.
And yes, the story is based on (our world) history - a lot of stories are. Was anyone disputing this?
Also, on that note, her thinking was normal for the time period this is based on - Kingdoms, heirs, Titels. Even if she was no heir, but a conqueror- also historically present.
She did mentally break down (a level of madness, so not incorrectly labeled).
Is her story a cautionary tale? I think it’s more than that. GOT in general is more complicated, with many “lessons learned” moments, one of which is: sometimes things happen that make no sense, are unfair, have no secret or obvious meaning...they just happen, because that’s life...

[–] bohemianroxie (2471) 5 years ago

You're right in some ways..There were a lot of signs along the way and when some posters on IMDb posted their theories so many moons ago I did see what they were saying. But I did think it would be fleshed out more..this descent. Or I don't think I ever thought D&D would actually go through with this vision.
It did seem that Dany had one purpose in mind and one purpose only and that was to be Queen of the 7 Kingdoms. She felt entitled to it and felt it was her destiny and nothing would stop her. All along the way she did some kindnesses and spoke at length of "breaking chains" but she was really always a conqueror as opposed to a ruler and obtained her status, her power and her army by conquering. She obtained her armies and moved on. Time and time again.
But consider some others like Ned or Robb or Jon..None of them wanted the positions they found themselves in. Ned didn't want to be hand to the King, Rob didn't want to be King of the North nor did Jon.
But for Dany power was all she seemed to want and all she ever seemed to think of.
If you look at Dany's temperament she could be charming and kind when she was worshiped and adored but the slightest hint in the other direction and she was cold and ruthless.
When she came to Kings Landing she did not have the immediate reception she had always been use to and was cold and arrogant. Certainly Sansa was the same and the North didn't exactly welcome her with open arms but that was to be expected at first. Then one loss after another wearing her down..
Dany having a Messianic complex is no revelation. But for her to make that instantaneous decision to destroy innocents should have at least been prompted by some tweaking to the way the battle went down. She had won and all had surrendered..It's hard for people to digest with no momentary instigation to bring out the worst .
Perhaps with Jon's claim she felt it was the only way and now she'll take out the resistance of her allies by naming them as traitors.

[–] prometheus1816 (1051) 5 years ago

What has been done to Dany is categorically wrong in a show that liked to pride itself on being forward thinking when it came to women and power. Going into season seven we had many queens: Dany, Sansa, Cersei, Yara. You could call it the War of the four Queens. Yet the writing did not depict this as well as it did the War of the Five Kings with Stannis, Renly, Robb, Joffrey, and Baelon Greyjoy. The writing severely let down these women. All the losses Dany incurred in Euron attacking Yara's ships, to the sacking of Highgarden, to the loss of Casterly Rock, Dany took hit after hit after hit. She could have done what Olenna told her to do, but she didn't. She showed restraint in only going for the Field of Fire. However, all that character progression was completely shot to hell with Sansa lying to Jon, telling Tyrion about Jon's birthright. Cersei being completely speechless and dumb during the attack, and Yara being completely missing since episode one. In other words they've set out a precedent that no matter how much a woman accomplishes in this show, she'll always be overshadowed by the man. Dany's "madness" was not earned. It was just plopped in for plot purposes only. In the end this show has done a great disservice to the women in that it didn't make them as worthy of the same status as the men. This has everything to do with the shoddy writing. The North should have bent the knee after the war for the dawn was finished. Dany sacrificed more than the North in her Dothraki, Unsullied, Jorah, Missandei, and Viserion and Rhaegal. So I'm sorry if her wanting to take King's Landing with fire and blood makes you feel she's mad. I call it resolute in an Alexander the Great fashion.

[–] bohemianroxie (2471) 5 years ago

I guess it depends on how you look at it but I don't feel the female characters have been let down at all. And it wasn't meant to be a war between Kings or Queens but a war between candidates for who had a right to the throne..Who cares about gender?
The females on this show have been represented just as well as the men. How many of the men proved themselves worthy of any status? Joffrey? Ramsey? Stannis? Balon Greyjoy..Frey, Robert ? Really?
And if it's really about breaking the wheel than it really shouldn't be about blood rights but who would make the best ruler. And while we're on that path how about not having one ruler to really change the world?
And I don't think Dany is"mad"..I just think she's very determined to get what she believes is owed her.. I do think they should have expanded the show to 2 full seasons to arrive at this position, though, and for a few other character arcs too.
But too late for that.

[–] prometheus1816 (1051) 5 years ago

Yes they have. This whole thing we're being forced to grasp about Dany's arc is plainly insulting. Breaking the wheel as Dany wants it is the only way to make sure those families aren't entitled. But this season has been bad. Big time bad.

[–] whynotwriteme (7119) 5 years ago

It's an allegorical warning about the hidden evils of Leftism and Socialism.

[–] MavKilledGoose (778) 5 years ago

Yeah, the tyranny of democratic institutions, worker control, and a hippy-dippy aversion to war.

[–] whynotwriteme (7119) 5 years ago

I guess you've never heard of Josef Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Pol Pot, Fidel Castro, etc. Try reading up a bit on these guys before you get carried further away with your love of the Left. The Cultural Revolution of China is a great read. They actually institutionalized the cannibalization of political undesirables.

[–] MavKilledGoose (778) 5 years ago

You really should read more.

North Korea calls itself a democratic people's republic. Is it a republic. No, of course not. Is it democratic? Not at all. They call themselves communist, so does that mean they're communist? If it fits our propaganda model, sure. Many of the figures you mention were temperamentally conservative-authoritarian.

Leftists and socialists in the US and Western Europe are not exactly keen on state executions and war, or criminalizing homosexuality. I vastly prefer strong institutions to strong leaders. But please, tell me how Norway is on the "road to serfdom" while Hungary is just peachy.

[–] whynotwriteme (7119) 5 years ago

I get it... Socialism in the past has been all wrong and not even socialism at all. But YOUR brand of socialism is the real thing and will turn out wonderfully for everyone.

I'm sure the same was said at the rise of all those other outfits.

[–] MavKilledGoose (778) 5 years ago

And MY "brand" of democracy means that all adults will get a right to vote. Not just property owning males, but women. "Will slaves get the right to vote?" No, because slavery will be abolished. "Oh, riiiiiiiiiight."

"Socialism" and "capitalism" are almost meaningless terms, distorted by decades of propaganda. Socialism as worker-controlled businesses IS practiced today, and faces many challenges. It's not easy. There's also no principled reason why a co-opt would necessarily oppose an alt-right style leader, or even an outright fascist (just as we have rigidly hierarchical corporations that market themselves as "progressive"). I'm sorry the world is more complicated than your tropes.

[–] [email protected] (65) 5 years ago

Or, maybe a call for someone to get a dagger to Melania