MovieChat Forums > Game of Thrones (2011) Discussion > One mistake D & D made that ruined Seaso...

One mistake D & D made that ruined Season 8..

posted 5 years ago by Scape (504)
17 replies | jump to latest

Was killing The Night King too early.
Yes, I know there were many threads about this already after Episode 3.
But now with hindsight of watching what’s become of this once great show. It’s even more clearer now just how bad a mistake that was.

He was GoT’s “Darth Vader“!
Creating a great antagonist is not an easy thing to pull off...Especially with zero dialogue. It’s rare, but they miraculously had pulled it off. Only using the word “miraculously”, because how awful the writings gone down hill since they surpassed the books. It is possible they simply got lucky with the NK..

Anyway, the one thing that always stayed on par, writing wise, from early Seasons all the way up to the last Season - was their antagonist/The Night King, & his confrontations with the protagonist/Jon Snow.
Viewers knew that even if there were clunker episodes here & there in these latter seasons, you still could count on a cool Episode/scene where the two faced off against each other. But always from a distance...

Not only did they write/kill The Night King too early...They also somehow pulled off making his death somewhat anticlimactic. What I mean is, remember in “HardHome”. There’s a shot of the Night King looking down, & noticing a human (Jon) killing one of his White Walkers. Then the NK does his walk out onto the river dock. Staring at Jon to show him how pointless his fighting truly is..
From that point on the writers “D & D” had pulled off creating the perfect fantasy story scenario. They had their Luke & their Vader.

The final pay off for these two characters could of been epic. And it didn’t have to be super predictable, but I think most people had been wanting a final showdown/sword fight, or something between Snow & NK... Because finally there would be zero distance between the two. Not even saying Jon had to be the one who drew the final blow, but at least they should of finally met face to face & had some type of final moment. That didn’t happen. Nope. Jon ended up hiding behind a rock instead.
(Think of Return of Jedi if Luke got stuck under that bridge Vader knocks down with his lightsaber - so Chewie defeats Vader with a quick crossbow shot in the back. The end.) Chewie’s cool & all but come on..

To drop the ball a little further, even when Jon finally caught up to his antagonist all that happens is the Night King turns around, sees Jon Snow, & the NK freezes. Decides that this one - this one, he’ll kill himself... Nope.
Didn’t happen. Actually the NK doesn’t even seem to realize, or care that it’s the same dude who kept coming North over & over to try to stop him. So he busts out another Hard Home move.. Leaving Snow to fight pointless zombies.

And worst of all this mistake screwed up their whole Story. The premature killing of “Winter is coming” aka Night King, in a show that seemed like its whole overall point was arcing towards this huge death wave coming for all these silly humans. Who’ve been spending all their time bickering with themselves over a stupid Throne?..

Seriously we need a total complete Season 8 do over. One where the Long Night lasts all the way to Kings Landing. Because as of this moment the last episode for this show should of been Episode 3. Even with its lame ending, it’s better than what’s followed.

[–] Otter (24464) 5 years ago

No, the mistake they made was to cram three years worth of material into six episodes! There should have been one season devoted to taking Cersei down, one to fighting the Night's King, and one where Jon squared off against Dany, who had been taking the last three seasons to get less and less stable.

But no, they want to get it over with and be off to Disney! So six bare-bones episodes, and Dany's going from sane to insane in one fucking week.

[–] spurtle467 (1498) 5 years ago

I agree with this and with the OP. The whole thing needed to be fleshed out, not done away with in the space of a few episodes. The rush to get this thing done has killed the stories and characters.

Usually less is more, but this should have been more is more, after multiple seasons of build up. Hope D & D are regretting that after the reception this last season has got.

[–] BrunoAntony (1198) 5 years ago

He was GoT’s “Darth Vader“!

That’s when I stopped reading.

[–] R_Kane (15828) 5 years ago

You got farther than I did.

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

Actually, it doesn't. Fantasy sagas (at least the good ones) use to have an epilogue, once the main plot has ended. For example, LotR epilogue (Frodo facing Saruman back in The Shire after Sauron has fallen) was almost a short novel by itself (and a very good one). And probably the last volume in GoT is gonna be the epilogue after the Night King has fallen.

This a series, not a movie. They rushed everything into six episodes, epilogue included. You fix it doing it right, not piling up even more mistakes (as deleting the epilogue).

[–] Scape (504) 5 years ago

Very true. Did it not feel like the momentum of the entire show kinda halted after episode 3? It was just awkward going from Jon running around for 4 seasons screaming “the dead are coming!!!” to...this? And whatever is going on now.

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

Actually, that's how it should be. Once the main story has ended, the momentum is lost. But then you can follow each character to see what happens with them, and see the consequences of what happened in the world.

The problem is that everything was rushed, too rushed, and then more. The confrontation between men and the Night King should have used, at least, a whole 10 episode season, being the battle in Winterfell the final episode of the season. And then, another more season to see what happens with the characters and the world once the Night King has fallen.

[–] Otter (24464) 5 years ago

Yeah, the main problem is the rushing, but I just wanted to agree with everyone that Cersei should have been dealt with before the Night's King. I also wanted the Night's King to deputize 50,000 undead to besiege Winterfell before he swept south to King's Landing and Cersei, but since that would have required them to make another episode and they can't be bothered with that.

But as it is they've given Cersei too much importance and the Night's King too little, and now the final confrontation between the main characters AND the epilogue are all going to be crammed into one fucking episode and neither is going to be satisfying. And I really do like a long satisfying epilogue, a good happy ending just isn't satisfying unless there's time to discuss what becomes of all the characters. It's not going to happen next week.

[–] kuku (3510) 5 years ago

Not sure.

I mean, sure there would have been interesting having the Night King raiding central Westeros. But when it comes to Cersei... mmm...

If Dany was going to go mad in the original RR Martin story, I suspect that belongs to the aftermath. Once the Night King is fallen, you see what happens with every character: Dany, in particular, would finally fall into madness. I guess that in RR Martin's Master Plan, King's Landing battle isn't supposed to be played as a big battle, but as a background scenario for Dany's final descent into madness. The battle is a secondary element in the plot. After all, the game of thrones has already ended. Dany's army has no rivals and she can control the whole territory without problems, Cersei can only surrender or barricade herself until death. Dany could even crown herself as Queen of Westeros, declare any other city as the new Capital and leave her army besiege King's Landing, for months if necessary, no rush, she doesn't even need to be there. The only thing that matters is whether Dany will go mad or not.

But (I guess again) D&D needed another big battle to feel like they're making The Big Great Series, except that King's Landing battle, just after Winterfell one, feels anti-climatic, out of place, wrong.

In my opinion, Dany's fall into madness should have required much more attention and work, following her evolution episode after episode. And King's Landing battle should have happened off-frame (much cheaper, too) with the camera focused in the final lucid moment of the woman who shall become the Mad Queen. That would frame the importance of that descent into madness, since the camera, that usually points the most important element happening, leaves a whole battle for King's Landing off-frame and instead chooses to follow the birth of the Mad Queen.

[–] Otter (24464) 5 years ago

The thing is, Dany cracking at the Battle of King's Landing could have been fantastic drama, if they'd given it a proper lead-up. If they'd spent the last season or two showing that she has having more and more trouble holding it together, and she'd always pulled herself together and THAT was the moment she cracked... it could have been incredible drama on the level of the Sept of Baylor blowing up after the tensions in King's Landing had been ramping up all season. But since it came out of nowhere, it was a fail.

But no, I disagree with your other conclusions, the battle against the Night's King should have been given MUCH more importance, it should have been monumental, *felt* monumental. The thing is, people are always fighting over the throne of Westeros, always have been always will be. And there have been plenty of mad monarchs here on Earth, and at least one in Westeros, so a queen going mad isn't that big a deal compared to a zombie apocalypse. Dany's madness shouldn't be the point of the whole story, the main climax, not when the fighting over the throne is business as usual and the Night's King only invades every ten thousand years and endangers all life in the world when he does.

Maybe the real problem is that the invasion by the Others and Dany's Madness are supposed to be the two big climaxes of the story, and they really have nothing to do with each other. Dany didn't defeat the Night's King, she just helped fight him. And the Night's King didn't drive Dany mad, either. If so, then maybe I'm right that the problems with this season started with GRRM, even if they were massively compounded by the showrunners rushing madly through everything for no reason.

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago

I think the Night King should have won at Winterfell. Forcing the survivors to go south and to deal with Cersei (without a full scale battle) while the White Walkers are still marching. That would have made a great season.

[–] Scape (504) 5 years ago

Exactly. That’s what I’m talking about. Would of been so much more dramatic and tense.

[–] lucifers (1) 5 years ago

thats what i was waiting for, only to be dissapointed

[–] bohemianroxie (2471) 5 years ago

Yep, me too

[–] NotoriousRio (12927) 5 years ago

Yep, imagine if that happened, just a few survivors or so, split off into different factions escaping to Kings Landing, the likes of Jamie and Brienne of Tarth could of died together heroically at Winterfell saving the lives of Starks, what a great act of redemption that would of been for Jamie!

But I’d of loved to of seen Winter reach Kings Landing, the triumphant Night King stare into the face of Cersei Lannister, and only then witness the sheer horror on her face knowing if she’d helped at Winterfell, they may of stood a chance.

I don’t mind Arya Stark killing him but with the aid of Jon, then when Daenerys finally goes mad (in another season) Jon would reluctulanly duel her astride his dragon. We never got a satisfying dragon duel either.

[–] MavKilledGoose (778) 5 years ago

The Night King was not an interesting character. He represented pure darkness and evil, which made him bland. The show has always been primarily about the political angle.

This could have been interesting with Daenerys as a tyrannical ruler, but they made her cartoonishly villainous in the penultimate episode.

[–] Scape (504) 5 years ago

You’re right on the point about Daenerys radical change. Could have worked out awesomely, but the writing & character development for such a radical turn was poor & rushed.

And I guess I’m just a sucker for pure evil villain types. It probably helped that his character never talked - so there wasn’t any cheesy dialogue from him. The one scene I didn’t like with him was when he had that stupid grin after Dani’s Dragon couldn’t burn him.