Is George R.R. Martin guilty of SABOTAGE?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pg0JPtEyRF8
I never knew what the full story was between the books and the TV series, but this GRRM comes off as a complete JERK to me.
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MovieChat Forums > Game of Thrones (2011) Discussion > Is George R.R. Martin guilty of SABOTAGE...
Would make him sell a lot more books if he lied about it. But he doesn’t seem to be about the money. He still lives in that small house as far as i know.
shareI don't know how he could be angry. They begged him for more material and he lied and lied and lied about when TWOW would be out. To the fans and the show creators.
shareI do suspect that the problems with this season are largely Martin's fault, that the vaunted outline they're working from ends with something idiotic like "... and Dany goes mad and her own dragon eats her, and Sam becomes king because everyone else is dead and I like Sam".
And that's why he's never been able to finish the damn books, because his ideas are unworkable.
Actually, his ideas are not only workable, but very workable:
[spoiler]
According to the leaks, Dany goes mad and Jon finally kills her. This is actually a CIRCULAR ENDING, that mirrors the start. I guess the idea of RR Martin is having GoT ending as it started.
Jon kills Dany, who went mad, mirrowing Jaime killing the Mad King. He did it to protect her own people, and he'll likely will be despised by the same people he saved, as it happened to Jaime. Sansa rises to power. In the books, she's not very brilliant, far from the feminist mary sue of the series, so she's likely to mirror King Robret Baratheon, while Tyrion remains at her side as the voice of reason, as Eddard Stark did for Robert. Jon goes back to the wall, or perhaps he stays in the new King's Guard, despised as a King Murderer, mirrowing Jaime. At the end, many people died, the whole world was shaken, but nothing really changed.
[/spoiler]
Thank you for using the spoiler covers, I haven't read whatever is under the black markers.
Everyone, please use the "[sp0iler] - [/sp0iler]" function (without zeroes) if you must post spoilers! Some of us don't wish to know what we are, and take whatever trauma is coming our way with no warning.
Under the black markers lies comment about the ending of GoT, as it was leaked in reddit and confirmed by Geek+Gamers youtube channel. The leak seems legit, since the same user had leaked (and nailed) the fourth episode.
In a nutshell, and without spoiling, I was commenting about what could be the intentions of RR Martin ending that way (the series follows his plotline). Maybe I will open a thread to debate it once the series has ended. My guess is that the ending is gonna be a very good one and will make sense... in the books. If I'm right, RR Marting had a very clear idea about how the story should end, but the showrunners completely missed the shot, they followed the plot to the letter, but not to its spirit.
He's not your employee neither he owes you nothing.
He could just pass the job to some hired writer and retire. Actually, most people his age are retire while he keeps working. Damn, he has been working his whole life, he's earned his retirement.
He keeps working, not because of you, not because of the series, probably not even because of the fans, but because this is the work of his life and his legacy, and he wants to take slow so last volumes are not shitty as the series. And yeap, he goes to conventions. It's an old guy, in a decade, most likely, he will be dead, so he wants to enjoy his success after spending his whole life as an unknown writer. And you call him a jerk for that?
Yes, I call him a jerk. Because he might die before "officially" finishing the story.
Chill down. He's 70. The sixth volume is almost done and there's only one left. He has time.
And EVEN in case he had only one or two years left, you know what? The last thing he should do is spend his last months in a dark room writing a novel.
The sixth volume has been almost done for several years. And the final book will be twice as long and harder to write. It will be a miracle if he finishes it.
shareIn case the seventh is final.
There was a lot of speculation that the whole story won't fit in seven books and there will be eight.
I disagree. He *does* owe his fans an ending to the story *he* started telling us. His obligation isn't a business one, as you suggest, but a social and moral one. This is a journey that *he* invited us to go on with him, By us agreeing to go on this journey, there is an implicit expectation that the story will be a complete one. When you tell a child a bedtime story, have you ever stopped halfway through and just walked away? Of course you haven't, and it wasn't because of some employment contract the kid made you sign.
No, he doesn't.
We live in the SJW Era, where the top principles are 'I have that right', 'You owe me', 'I'm entitled', 'I'm empowered' and then more. So you think you have that right, you think he owes you, but he doesn't.
You want somebody owing you? Take a commitment. Give. THEN you can ask. What you did here? You read a bloody novel in your spare time? That was it? He works hard to write it, you read in your spare time, and suddenly it's him who owes you? Give me a break.
Except, of course, we're talking about children. You said it "When you tell a child a bedtime story have you ever stopped halfway through and just walked away? Of course you haven't", and that's it because little children have some special privileges. We don't treat them as adults. We commit to them without asking them to commit to us. We give them without asking anything in return, because they're still little children. Well, feminism has transformed modern women into little children that need to be constantly protected and spoiled ans subsidized without giving anything in return. You want that too? You wanna be a little child too? Because I think RR Martin is too old to give a shit about you wanting to be treated as a modern empowered and entitled little child.
What the fuck does this have to do with SJW, and do you routinely ignore obligations you have to others and as such, are trying to justify this in GRRM?
shareThe exploitation of his ideas and appropriated fame by Dan and Dave as a result of the GoT TV project is a bit on the nose when you think about it. That said, if he made promises to them he should fulfill them.
The public persona of D&D is that they are mild-mannered and serious whereas Martin is the jolly extrovert reveling in the enthusiasm of fans for his books and characters and the show that presents them as perceivable people - ie. brought to life. Is he jealous of their success? Maybe.
Here is a theory: perhaps he's had enough of the hype surrounding GoT, has become bored with the stories themselves and wants to branch out. He has said he doesn't believe in rushing his books and that quality matters to him. Maybe he is also reticent about the factory conveyor-belt culture of Hollywood or corporations that run the entertainment industry - he doesn't want to be a worker under the thumb pushing out books because consumers demand it.
I've always felt that GRRM has just fallen out of love with his characters due to too much time passing.. There's a bond that's created when a writer creates an entire universe and the people that inhibit it..They are his creation, his children and he feels a real kinship with them.
The first 4 books he still felt it but he lollygagged around too long and the last 2 books are evidence of the connection he feels he has lost or was losing.
Nothing much happened. He didn't know what to do with them.
He believes in the characters telling him where they will go by their actions (unlike making the characters behaving a certain way to manufacture a plot) and he couldn't connect with them.
The outline he may have given them wouldn't have factored in the natural organic progression of the story which could've changed some things significantly. GRRM doesn't even like to do outlines because of this, I've heard. You go where the story takes you. You don't take the story where you want to go.
I think he thought when he allowed his story to be adapted for tv that it would inspire him to finish and put the necessary pressure on him and help him find his way again..But it didn't work. If anything it made him feel further removed from the story.
Maybe if the ending is badly received it will build a fire under him. We'll see.
I've always felt that GRRM has just fallen out of love with his characters due to too much time passing.
I think that pretty much nails it. i don't see how any creative person can dedicate so much time and effort to this one pursuit. He's a creative person and should allow himself to have more latitude than just this one epic. But he has trapped himself into a situation of his own making. Frankly, I think he should just write the outline of the completion and leave it to contracted (ghost) writers to complete the books. Maybe he is already doing that for all we know. share
You know, I was writing a totally different reply to this but by the end of this video, this guy had me totally convinced. This sounds REALLY possible.
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