MovieChat Forums > Game of Thrones (2011) Discussion > Everybody is hating on D&D, but GRRM is ...

Everybody is hating on D&D, but GRRM is the culprit for this epic fiasco.


These guys never imagined when they started working on the TV show that GRRM would sit on his fat ass and stop writing. Winds of Winter should have been out by the time Season 3 aired and then GRRM would have had another 3 years to write the last book.

D&D were doing great when they only had to adapt the books into a TV show, which is itself already a monumental task. Then GRRM abandoned his project and left them with nothing to adapt. They basically had to complete his story and I'm sure this isn't what they wanted from the start.

Everybody is talking as if GRRM grew apart from D&D because he didn't like how the show turned, but it's all his fault for not doing his part and leaving these guys completely on their own.

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Yeah I remember when I started reading A Clash of Kings back in 2011, after I watched the first season and then read A Game of Thrones, I thought for sure that by the time I'm done reading the books, George will have the Winds of Winter out.

That didn't happen, and apparently he's not even close to finishing Winds of Winter, and it's really sad, because it could potentially be 15-25 years before we see or know about George's ending to A Song of Ice and Fire, long after Game of Thrones horrible Season 8 ending is already in the dust and talks about rebooting the show are making the rounds on the Global Community Network.

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Don't think he has 15 years in him. Unless he has an intervention

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Agreed, and this is why us book fans are so very sad.

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I doubt D&D picked up an unfinished book series to turn into a TV show because they were 100% certain George RR Martin would write two more novels before the show ended.

That would be ridiculously naive of them.

There are plenty of TV shows on-air that are based on unfinished series of novels and comics.

But I do wish George RR Martin had been consulted closely on every episode (and wrote a few more), like Margaret Atwood on “The Handmaid’s Tale” adaptation.

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Bullshit. Number one if a writer needs source material and can't come up with something good on his own merits than he needs to find a new job.

Secondly, writing is long, difficult work. Especially when it's something as large and sprawling and filled with as many character as Game of Thrones. George RR Martin is not about deadlines, he wants the story to be perfect before he sends it out.

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George also writes when he feels like it...

If another project catches his interest, the next GoT book goes on the backburner.

And they did say from the beginning that the plan was for George to have the new book finished by the time they finished adapting all the previous ones. And while, yes, it is the writers job to come up with good stuff, few TV writers are on par with writers like Martin.

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But D&D do have to deal with deadlines. You think writing a serialized drama for tv is not long, difficult work? But they don't have the luxury of taking time to make it bulletproof. And I say that while not being happy with what we've seen so far.

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So for GRRM, writing is long difficult work, especially when its something large, sprawling and filled with many characters. It has to be perfect.

But tv writers should have done it themselves on top of the hundreds other things they need to care about (budget, cast, script, filming schedule, sets, location, special effects, etc...

Isn't that contradictory?

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I partially agree. The show's writers are working from Martin's outline, he is the one who's ultimately to blame.

However, it's the show's writers that are responsible for the details and the dialogue, THEY are the ones who are suddenly writing intelligent characters as stupid, misunderstanding politics and tactics, making everyone out of character, ignoring Varys, etc. The show has become a hash at the micro level more than the macro, although just how bad the macro level is remains to be seen.

Check this out: "Game of Thrones: an Unbridled Rage", on youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI7zy1PTMp0

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I think it's all connected. Without a strong backbone (the books), everything falls apart.

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If you think the books are a strong backbone, you haven't read them all!

Seriously, never have any books ever written ever needed editing so badly. For a long time, one of the strengths of the show's writing was that they took these flawed books and picked out the good stuff and discarded the Lady Stoneheart, and the result was awesome. I don't know why things have gone off the rails so suddenly, they're still working from Martin's storyline, the storyline Martin has never bothered to finish writing himself. Maybe his ideas for the last chapters just sucked.

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I think it's because they have rushed to get the show done in too few episodes, and it's more evidently coming loose at the seams as a result. But yes maybe the ideas haven't been quite so great in the first place due to the ending being near. Endings are probably quite hard to get right for shows that are this long and with so many subplots and characters. Difficult to finalise the stories and the characters' arcs in a satisfactory way.

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I think this is true..this accelerated pacing just hasn't allowed time to build the characters motivation. They really should have had a full season to flesh out the details and they could've done this without any additional CGI.
The thing with Dany going dark, for instance, is something that has been speculated on for a while and could make sense given the nature and outcome of many revolutionaries. But everything is happening at lightening speed to further the plot and is neglecting fleshing out the characters or making sense of many of their choices.

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The first 3 books were tight. D&D didn't need to cut or change too many things. That's why season 1 to 4 of the show were the greatest The very best scenes were also those closely following the books.

GRRM went slightly off he rails with A Feast for Crows. Coincidentally that's also when the show stopped being great.

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Now you are being a bit overdramatic, lol. I have most definitely read a bunch of books that where in more need of editing than Martins last two.
Personally, I don’t think that they where THAT bad. Bit dryer, splitting them the way he did was a mistake- but he himself said that he wasn’t going to try it that way again.
I don’t know why people make such a big deal out of it. It’s not perfect (show or the books) but they make for good entertainment.
If one is disappointed in the way it’s going, there are so many other good books (and other shows) out there...just move on to better things.
And sure, nothing wrong with discussing this one, but the way some people rant on about this...it’s not the end of the world lol

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There is a simple solution to this problem:

WAIT UNTIL THE FUCKING BOOKS ARE LONG FINISHED BEFORE EVEN THINKING OF ADAPTING THEM TO TELEVISION OR FILM!!!!!

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How do we know GRRM didn't warn them about possibly not being able to finish his books and thus about going on their own since certain season? They've made 'an educated guess' about Jon's parents, guessed right, so... GRRM could've easily told them something like: You boys have enough creativity even without me, should I die you'll be all right on your own. Now please pass the contract.

However, there is another side to it. If you're selling a certain product in parts you should remember that people are not just buying your product - they are investing in it hoping you stick to your promise and deliver the whole thing eventually. Would I buy the first three books knowing in advance the saga won't be finished? Not likely. So... people invest in this guy and it turns out to be a Ponzi scheme. Sad!

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So you're the kind of guy who complains for having to pay tax on lottery winnings

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Give me a winning lottery ticket, and we'll put your hypothesis to the test.

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Supposedly he told them from the beginning on how he plans to end the books (wether they followed the same story line or not I’ll guess we won’t know until the books come out).
They bought a unfinished product and knew it - many other shows and movies did too, it’s not uncommon. And can’t blame Martin for excepting, that’s a lot of money and a chance to see his work on TV.
Many writers have rushed their series’ because of contracts or public pressure and the results where not very good - I’d rather find out what he’ll come out with his creativity having been left unchecked. I also don’t think that he owes us anything. When I picked up the first book I knew that it was not a stand alone book. That’s on me. Could wait till all of them are out before starting. I got what I paid for and that’s it.

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Oh, I don't blame Martin for selling his unfinished books to HBO. Fiction writers don't make that much money, movie and TV rights are about the only big payday available to them, and he's not a young man and he's got to think of the future. Plus they'r willing to take this problem-child story off his hands, the one he bungled and couldn't finish himself, they'll finish it for him and pay him for the privilege!

And well, the HBO writers have done a much better job with the property than Martin did. I really wonder what the problem is - the ridiculously short time for the wrapup, or Martin's original ideas just didn't work?

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