It has been a constant over and over with the show for a while now. Even someone as clever as Tyrion has been reduced to an idiot who is constantly chastised by Danny for being dumb. Even Jon can’t get anything done properly and it is Danny that has to save the day (or Arya after being told by another woman, Melissandre).
That’s not equality that’s just building up one while tearing down the other.
One Mary Sue was difficult enough, now that there are two (Brienne and Arya)... one of them has to go.
shareNeither of them is a Mary Sue. It’s appropriate that “lies” is part of your username.
shareHow about you reread the definition of "Mary Sue." A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional female character.
Sounds like Arya and Brienne to me.
That's not exactly the definition. A Mary Sue is "an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional female character." true, but also one THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE A STAND IN FOR THE AUTHOR, like those female characters in 80s and 90s Star Trek novels who go on board the Enterprise, fall in love with Kirk and solve all the problems single-handedly.
Not sure GRRM had that in mind when he made those two up. The "Marty Stu" is the male equivalent. GRRM's Marty Stu in the TV show would be Jon, if you look at pics of GRRM in his hippie youth. They look like twins almost. GRRM also has a more realistic stand-in in the character of Sam.
But unless someone on the show's writing team created Brienne and Arya in their own idealized image, they are technically not Mary Sues.
Thank you, whynot. Tears has selectively quoted from Wikipedia. You have given a more complete version. Here is the whole thing
From Wikipedia:
"A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character. Often, this character is recognized as an author insert or wish fulfillment. They [sic] can usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience, and usually are able through some means to upstage the main protagonist of an established fictional setting, such as by saving the hero."
Arya and Brienne have earned their every skill and strength by the sweat of their brow and the ferocity of their determination. It riles me no end to see them dubbed Mary Sues. I am a linguist and language matters to me.
To be fair, Euron is more of a Mary Sue than Arya and Brienne because at least Arya and Brienne had character development. Euron just showed up out of the blue and started kicking ass everywhere he went.
shareI was so disgusted by Jon's thoughtful, philosophical response at the meeting to decide what to do about Jaime.
"We need all dah men we can get."
Worthy of Homer Simpson...
All the good men of the show now are emasculated in some way. Physical characteristics (Tyrion, Sam) Age (Davos) Injury and psychology (Hound, Jaime) social position (Podrick) intellect (Jon, Tormund) or actual castration (Varys, Greyworm, Theon)
Jorah and Beric were the only two potent traditionally masculine heroes left and they were killed off.
Other than those two, the only fully powerful, potent and mostly competent males on the show for years have been shown as despicable villains (Stannis, Ramsay, Tywin)
I get your point about emasculation, but how should Jon have responded?
shareLove your response, lol ( whynotwrite me) ,,
I am woman, hear me roar.
I’m curious how age is an emasculation. Did you think of Tywin as being emasculated? Have you seen 60 year-old Adrien Paul lately? Emasculated? Paul Newman? Exceptional knows no age limits.
shareTywin was vital and much more youthful than his years. Davos comes across as old and worn out.
shareShe made a blanket statement that age emasculates a man. I dispute it, reject it and object to it. As a man who has spent an adult lifetime in gyms, and published articles and books on physical fitness, I have known people of both genders who’ve maintained both youthful vigor and outlook well into their geriatric years. I think her desire to make her argument about the castration of the GOT men complete exceeded her sense.
shareI think you're pretty confused and not actually following this thread very well. Maybe it's age.
shareR_Kane totally misinterpreted my posts and now he's too embarrassed to respond.
shareMaybe he has a life?
But what did he misinterpret?
You did, in fact, use age as an example of the emasculation of men on the show, It wasn't the only example but it was one of them.
First, he took offense to my statement, when what I was saying was that THE SHOW was doing this in order to weaken the male characters. He seemed to think that was MY OPINION that age emasculated a man.
He also thinks I am female and support the emasculation of the male characters. He also replied to my response as if I were a different poster.
The only way modern women seem to get ahead is the oh-so-PC way they destroy men in the media.
Woman are more sexist/misandrist and hypocritical- 'strong', 'independent', yet always crying about being victims, always an excuse, always someone else's fault- God, men, Mother nature, etc.
Can you say:
#Me Too; or
George RR Martin hasn't written the source material for the last two seasons.