Those Skype ravens actually appeared in Season 6 during the Battle of the Bastards. I've often wondered how Littlefinger was able to get the Knights of the Vale to Winterfell so quickly. I doubt he had them just waiting in the wings for Sansa's letter.
Although the dei ex machinas in the A-team mission doesn't bother me as much. At least Dany's doesn't, because we KNOW she's coming; it's just a matter of, will she get there in time? But Benjen's does, because he hadn't been mentioned in ages, and what was he doing all this time while the A-team was busting their chops out on the lake?
I wouldn't necessarily say that the show has jumped the shark, but I will say that, every time a major character is saved (Bran and Meera by Benjen, Arya by Lady Crane, Jon by...multiple people), we care less about them. We cared about Robb and Catelyn and Shereen and Hodor and Karsi, because we knew they weren't coming back, and there wasn't going to be any deus ex machina coming to save them. But as awesome a character as Jon is, I'm finding myself caring less and less about him because each time he's in a major predicament, he doesn't die, and even when he does, he's resurrected. The same thing with Tormund. I love the guy, and really hope that he and Beric survived the NK's "Joshua Fit the Battle of Jericho" routine because I want him and Brienne to get together. But he should have died about three times by now.
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Arghhhh (804)
6 years ago
Yes, you're right and the BotB was actually the exact moment (for me) it went full Hollywood. I wouldn't have minded so much but the idea that Sansa kept Rob in the dark about asking the Vale for help... I mean, why? For the lulz? To see the look on his face when they turned up? Assuming they're not all dead by that point of course! It was a completely unnecessary 'twist' that almost spoiled a fantastically exciting episode. In fact, I only gave it a pass because it was the first time GoT pulled that shit and I justified it in my head as 'well, Hollywood moments have to happen in real life at some point so fair enough'. Little did I realise this was going to be the new norm for the show - constant ass pulls from the writers.
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Kawada_Kira (7269)
6 years ago
Battle of the Bastards lost me much earlier on, when Jon was stupid enough to abandon his whole battle plan, the only plan which (in the absence of known support coming from allies) had any chance of success, and charged head-on single-handed against Ramsay's army, completely screwing all his supporters whom he had until then made such a point of trying to save (even getting killed for it) and forcing them to join his suicidal charge just to save his life. That was one of the worst moments in the entire series for me due to its sheer unforgivable stupidity, and I think it's odd how little commented-upon it is compared to the other issues with that episode. For this reason I couldn't get all that thrilled with the battle itself, well-made though it otherwise was.
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Arghhhh (804)
6 years ago
You're totally right but I guess people justify it because Jon loves his brother.
Here's how BotB should have gone in my head (more GRRM and less Hollywoo - hopefully):
Jon and Sansa *plan* to catch Ramsay in a pincer between themselves and the Vale
Ramsey goads Jon into a stupid rescue attempt which *almost* wrecks the plan as Jon's forces have to attack early (just like in the show)
The vale get there just in time and save the day (just like in the show)
However, many men and lords of the north have been killed, eroding Jon's power base
And they are now totally dependent on the Vale and Littlefinger (And we'll just pretend that terrible Littlefinger Scooby Doo inspired 'trial' never happens....)
Which has big consequences for the future
His character is further defined as: Great man, terrible king
For me this makes Jon's foolishness acceptable (from a story point of view) because it has consequences. That is one of the key themes of GoT: choices have consequences. Especially foolish choices. Now that theme has warped into: Go nuts with foolish consequences because the writers will dig you out of any hole you fall into with an ass-pull. Such a shame.
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winslow (1318)
6 years ago
Jon should have listened to Sansa and waited until he built up enough of an army before having the battle. But by doing so, and trying to save Rickon when Sansa told him Rickon would be used as a trap, it highlights the difference between Jon and Sansa. Jon is the type to tempt fate. He would rather try and fail than live with knowing he let something bad happen. Davos' influence (along with Ned Stark, Jior Mormont and Mance Rayder) reinforces this belief. Sansa is much smarter than Jon. She is influenced by her parents, but also by Cersei, Littlefinger and Ramsay. The rift between Sansa and Jon carried into Season 7 over Jon leaving Winterfell, but was partially settled when he left her in charge. I think in season 8 we will see Jon benefit from asking for and taking Sansa's advice. That's all she really wanted from him.
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