MovieChat Forums > Game of Thrones (2011) Discussion > What are the Night King's motives?

What are the Night King's motives?

posted 7 years ago by bokononharam (2)
33 replies | jump to latest

Seriously, I don't get this guy. What does he want? Why is he massing armies and marching on unconquered lands?

The Kings and Queens either want to improve the lives of their people and the people they'd conquer/liberate (good guys) or to enrich their own lives (bad guys). Neither of those motivations seem to apply to the Night King. His armies don't celebrate victories with weeks of feasting and frolicking. He himself doesn't seem given to feasting and frolicking. He doesn't need to feed his starving subjects. Their leisure activities seem to run the gamut from staring woodenly ahead to trudging woodenly ahead.

Is "I'm tired of staring at snow / trudging through snow" really a good reason to start a war?

[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

Kill all those who fight you. Enslave the rest.
That were pretty much Sauron’s motives. Why shouldn’t they work for the Night King? Of course in his case, killing is enslaving, so it’s down to »Enslave them all«.

Works for me when it comes to Fantasy Uber Bad Guys. They don’t need much of a motive.

However, IF he has real motives, it’s not surprising that we don’t know them, because he’s not the talkative type, so who would know? But in this case, I’m sure the motives will be revealed before the show is done.

[–] bokononharam (2) 7 years ago

I don't see that the Night King gains anything by increasing the number of enslaved subjects. They aren't producing wealth. He isn't getting his pick of the comeliest corpse to copulate with. They aren't conquering lands so they'll have fertile farms on which to raise rich spices which their world-class chefs will use to delight the Night King's palate.

It just seems pointless, from the Night King's perspective. How does conquest make his life better?

[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

You haven’t watched very much Fantasy/Horror, have you?

[–] BourbonKing (5612) 7 years ago

I have, and the Night King comes across as a B-movie monster more than anything, which contradicts GRRM's claims that his story of Ice and Fire is more complex than just good vs evil.

[–] QwertyKeys (28) 7 years ago

Because of GRRM's comment about more complexity than good vs evil is why I don't think the Night King has simple bad-guy motives. That makes the OP's question even harder to answer. Arguably the children of the forest made them to kill off men a long ass time ago. Maybe the dood is still just following orders, who the hell knows...

[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

»Arguably the children of the forest made them to kill off men a long ass time ago. Maybe the dood is still just following orders, who the hell knows...«

This is my (current) interpretation, and I’m fine with it.
The Children of the Forest created the ultimate weapon, but weren’t able to control it and so it turned against them. I don’t think there’s anything B-Movie about Spirits that I’ve cited / My commands ignore.

But if he has other motives, I think it’d absolutely fit with the story that these motives remain a secret until shortly before it ends. In that case, getting to know his motives might very well even be the key to defeating the WW.

In other words, I won’t judge the story before its done. Because it’s quite possible that the important thing is yet to come.

[–] QwertyKeys (28) 7 years ago

I think the key to defeating them will be room temperature.

[–] Atarimaster (442) 7 years ago

Well, bringing all of Westeros to room temperature might be a bit of a problem, especially since the Night King carries along his own cooling system… ;-)

[–] Gastonian (946) 7 years ago

Doesn't contradict anything. GRRM doesn't run the show. And all of the stuff with the NK and the walkers hasn't happened in the books. In fact the WW are portrayed very differently in the books. If anyone is reducing his story down to simple good and evil, its D&D.

[–] BourbonKing (5612) 7 years ago

GRRM still signed off on the adaptation.

[–] Gastonian (946) 7 years ago

The point is he was referring to his story. The one from his books.

[–] illnagas (457) 7 years ago

That's actually a really good point. Maybe you just put your finger on why I never really liked the WW story element. I love zombie movies but in Got this entire tangent just seems like an excuse to end the show. Similar to a movie the writers don't know how to end, so they throw a car chase and gun fight on the end of the story.

[–] bohemianroxie (2471) 7 years ago

I hadn't read the books when I first started GOT and I also felt the least interesting aspect of the story was the WW...But everywhere I went and everything I read kept saying how they were, in a way, the whole point to the story. I don't think that now they're just falling back on it just to end the story.

Their existence seems to be a way to get humanity all on the same page and the same side, if possible. And isn't what they were created for in the first place? To extinguish mankind?
The children of the forest created them to attack all men to protect themselves but they ended up uniting with men when the WW got out of control. It's not the first time solutions to a problem become a bigger problem than the original problem.
I'm not sure the WW and the NK need a purpose other than that's why they exist in the first place.

Maybe there's some logic and reasoning there with this NK. We don't know..But is having that be their whole purpose to exist any less logical than some notion of vengeance against all mankind when most of mankind didn't even know they still existed? Does anyone really understand why Ramsey enjoyed such sadistic torture ?

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 7 years ago

Does anyone really understand why Ramsey enjoyed such sadistic torture ?

Probably the same reasons as any garden variety sadist enjoys inflicting pain on others. Born with a lack of empathy sadists get a thrill out of inflicting pain, suffering, and humiliation on others. Cruelty is pleasurable and can even be sexually stimulating to a sadist.

As to the reason why sadists are the way they are, it's not too difficult to imagine how sadistic traits might have provided an evolutionary advantage to those that held them over those that didn't during certain periods of our evolutionary history when competition over a scarcity of resources was particularly fierce.

[–] bohemianroxie (2471) 7 years ago

"Probably the same reasons as any garden variety sadist enjoys inflicting pain on others. Born with a lack of empathy sadists get a thrill out of inflicting pain, suffering, and humiliation on others. Cruelty is pleasurable and can even be sexually stimulating to a sadist."

Yes, most of us do understand that... but then the vast majority of us still don't understand it. Intellectually, perhaps, but fortunately it doesn't compute for most of us in a way we can relate..

If the NK never reveals any other motive beyond his purpose for existence I can live with that. Although, yes, it would be a more interesting reveal to have him be more than a mindless enemy bent on human destruction just because he's wired that way.
GRRM always says that he prefers the gray as opposed to everything and everyone being black and white but there's those like the Mountain , Joffrey and Ramsey to show that sometimes he doesn't follow this view across the board.

[–] eYeDEF (5050) 7 years ago

D&D already revealed that the NK is not a typical villain. He's not human, he doesn't wrestle with the moral and ethical dilemmas like humans do, he was created as a pure force of nature whose purpose is to destroy. So I'm sure you'll be disappointed if you're hoping otherwise.

I find it easier to look at him like a metaphor. Like nukes, he was created to defend against humans, but over time the proliferation of his army of white walkers became too powerful and became a threat to human existence itself. Will humans be able to stop warring between themselves long enough to perceive the universal threat and unite against a common foe that threatens to obliterate all of them? That is the ultimate existential question and morality play I believe is in the works from the NK and threat he brings.

As for the evil caricatures, at least it stays true to history from which there are plenty of examples of empowered sadists that rampage with their cruelty.

[–] Facepalm (3) 7 years ago

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

[–] JoeCinema (89) 7 years ago

He just wants someone to get that shard of dragon glass out of his chest.

He was made to kill humans and continue to do so.

[–] Volley (3366) 7 years ago

My guess is he just wants to get back at anyone or anything linked to what created him, thus total annihilation of the Seven Kingdoms of Westeros.

[–] Lootrock (149) 7 years ago

Yeah, I would second that. Or possibly he's trying to create an ice utopia filled with the undead. But, what will he do after he conquers everything?

[–] Volley (3366) 7 years ago

Yeah. Now I'm even more curious if he is able to freeze the narrow sea and march over to Essos as well.. Right now it seems that land would be the safest place for every man, woman, and child in Westeros!

[–] Lootrock (149) 7 years ago

Nahh, I doubt it. He knows to a certain extent how powerful Jon Snow/Aegon Targaryan is and he didnt freeze that little bit of water that was separating him and the inglorious bastards who kidnapped one of his own as well as the lake during the battle at the Hardhome. If his dragon breathed ice instead of ice though that would open new possibilities.

[–] r5d4d2 (679) 7 years ago

To crush your enemies. See them driven before you. And to hear the lamentations of their women.

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

I don't think we need to know his motives, because there's nothing more frightening than the unknown. If we, or the characters on the show, come to understand what the NK is and what he wants, then we are able to anticipate his moves and plan effective countertactics. If we don't know what he is or what he wants, then he always has the advantage of surprise and is a better screen villain.

So my personal theory is that he's the embodiment of winter, and wants to spread beautiful winter all over the world and freeze all those annoying warm squishy things that are running around shoveling away the snow and wearing clothes to keep his beautiful cold out. If that's true, which I admit is pretty damn unlikely, then he isn't truly evil. But evil or not, humans can't co-exist with him, they need to fight him or die.

[–] Apis (1624) 7 years ago

I think his motive is revenge, and revenge isn't based on logic. That's why I don't look for logic in his actions.