They are hinting at it more and more. Threatening to burn varys. Telling Jon snow he "will bend the knee." Tyrion is one of the few characters on the show that I trust. And he has had to reel her in a few times. Now they have teamed her with melisandre, a woman who believes in burning people alive for her god.... I don't think dany winds up as queen of westeros at the end.
shareI think she definitely has a cruel streak and she quickly developed a lust for power after getting her first taste of it as Drogo's khaleesi. She does act morally for the most part but seems like she enjoys enforcing that morality a little too much and sometimes does it in unnecessarily cruel ways. In contrast, I can't see Ned Stark or Jon Snow [spoiler]leaving people trapped to suffocate or starve to death (Xaros and Doreah), crucifying people who will suffer for hours or days before dying (the masters of Mereen), or burning people alive, which Danys seems to love doing.[/spoiler]
share[spoiler]She did say she'd burn Varys, but if he betrayed her; and she implied that this meant going behind her back instead of speaking honestly to her about not standing for the right things. So, to me, this isn't unstable. She's responding to what Varys says he values, and to why he went behind the backs of other rulers. She told him she doesn't want yes-men, and that if she discovers he's saying yes while feeling and thinking no, that's a betrayal and burn-worthy. Given the stakes, this is valid.[/spoiler]
shareI appreciate that viewpoint but I also notice that Tyrion Jon snow and Jaime Lannister don't have to threaten people to keep their loyalties.
shareUnderstood. But this confrontation is involving something other than loyalty to Dany: Varys has stated up front that, in fact, his loyalties are *not* to Dany. His loyalties are with the people. He was honest about this. He tells her so. He supports Dany because she has shown evidence that she shares this concern. She accepts this, and it's important that she accepts this. They both understand that his loyalty is NOT to her. They are now negotiating something else:
She is demanding honesty from him to her, which he has not given to the other kings. She is telling him that she will listen to him if he criticizes her, and she will expect him to do so rather than go behind her back to undermine her, as he has to others.
It's a contract: he must be honest with her. She must be willing to hear him, unlike Aegon and Robert. She understands that if she doesn't hear him and goes against his loyalties to the people, that he will look for another champion. He understands that if she discovers he turns from her, she will kill him. This is their contract. It's very different from demanding loyalty.
I see her parallel to her father - Aerys - in that from what we have heard of him, he was a good man. Dany, despite the cruelties she suffered under her brother was shown to be good intentioned. And perhaps her cruelties and hardening may simply be her evolution from the sweet naive girl in season 1 to what she has become today.
But unlike Sansa's parallel evolution to Cersei, Dany seemed a lot more stable, realistic, and unselfish so her dramatic transformation is a lot more jarring than Sansa's. Sansa was initially presented as a dreamy eyed selfish shallow and un-loyal little girl. Dany was presented to be far more likable, relatable, intelligent, and grounded than Sansa. In the books Dany was 13 but in the show she was initially only 15 so at a young age, she was very mature, open-minded, and had a lot of empathy for others beyond her years.
So the stark contrast of her moral guidelines and her want to implement and enforce it vs the inhumane cruelties she seems to revel in is unnerving. Not to mention the constant references and mentioning of her father's madness, and their similarities.
You say that unlike Aerys, she demands honesty because she will hear him out. But why assume Aerys was not the same way before madness overtook him? Like Rhaegar, we initially had negative stories of him until we find out that they were good men, at least Aerys once was. He was not just the Mad King at the start, he seemed like a benevolent and just ruler like Dany wishes to be, so if Dany does become mad, how exactly will she be able to hear Vary's and other's advice? Maybe, since they are all familiar with Aery's descent, they may be able to forewarn Dany before she is too late to reach. That is, if she does indeed ends up as her father was.
We have to keep in mind this is a feudal medieval world. There's a higher threshold for brutality. Daenerys doesn't strike me as unstable or cruel. She only hurts people who hurt her or who hurt the powerless. She does what she has to do to make her way in a violent and oppressive world.
Daenerys doesn't know anything about Melisandre yet except that she served Stannis. Let's see what happens if Jon tells her what Melisandre did to Shireen.
Telling Jon snow he "will bend the knee."
<< Telling Jon snow he "will bend the knee." >>
<< Half the characters in this show have said that... >>
Right. But let a woman say it, and she's "unstable."
Poppycock!
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Pretty much.
shareSo many posters here either complain about feminism or complain that there isn't enough of it. Both views are extremist narrow minded views IMO.
Having "too much feminism" is like having "too much equality."
shareSigh. Don't you see that crying that anyone who dislikes said female character is against feminism/a sexist and anyone who cries that there are too many strong female leads are just two heads of the same coin? You guys are each other's extremes, and are quick to cry out sexist/sjw/whatever terms you guys like to throw around these days.
Give us all a break will you.
Not yet unstable, but power has changed her. For a long time she managed to restrain herself from telling people what she really thinks about them in harsh terms, but now her mask is slowly falling off. I guess this happens to most people when they start feeling powerful and she is no exception.
shareEVERYTHING she has done so far was build on her assumption that she is the rightful Queen of the Seven Kingdoms.
So of course she expects Jon Snow to bend the knee. Anything else would be out of character.
This.
shareYeah I mean, it's kind of the whole thing of being a monarch. People are talking about Daenerys as if she's supposed to be some modern elected president or prime minister. She's a feudal monarch. What do people expect? It would be weird if she didn't make such a demand.
shareWell, contemporary Muslim societies were elected modernly by an oligarchic process of aristocratic democracy called Shura where anyone could work themselves up to the higher class, so it's not incomprehensible that people could wish for a more "cheerable" character.
Her being in a time of feudal monarchs does not justify her being one as well. She could have been the first democratic ruler, like Jon Snow. That's why I'm on his side, at least he speaks for the people.
So what happens if she finds out that she isn't the RIGHTFUL Queens of the Seven Kingdoms? I don't see her bending her knee if that happens.
share»So what happens if she finds out that she isn't the RIGHTFUL Queens of the Seven Kingdoms?«
I think that will never happen. She’s so convinced that she is, she’s not going to change her mind about that EVER.
Her sense of rightfulness comes from more than just her blood lineage. She is, in fact, the Unburnt and Mother of Dragons, so she (pretty legitimately) feels she has a supernatural or even divine calling for the throne.
shareto me there always was the tension that she might become the mad queen like her father.
shareAnd what should she do it Varys if he betrays her? This is what should be asked. People are really reaching for something to claim to that Dany is unstable and the story isn't offering such material.
shareWell stannis used to walk around saying bend the knee or burn. And as soon as dany meets melisandre we hear her say bend the knee in reference to the democratically elected leader of the north, Jon snow. To say there is no obvious instability is pure blindness. She quotes tyrion directly when she sounds reasonable. When she opens up her heart and speaks she is a tyrant. "I command you to do this. I command you to do that." I fully expect the mad queen to burst through at some point
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Well, she's not going to eat another raw stallion heart again to prove herself to you, if that's what you're waiting for.
Those days are OVER!
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I have always thought her a bit unstable. Lol.
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