Has GRR Martin completely abandoned the series?
It is not as addictive as it used to be with the exception of a couple of noteworthy episodes.
shareProbably, I think he's just busy, hard at work on Book 6 ;)
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MovieChat Forums > Game of Thrones (2011) Discussion > Has GRR Martin completely abandoned the ...
I couldn't even begin to imagine how he possibly keeps all the plotlines together. It's easy in the first book or two, but as everything branches out--just like a family tree, it gets to the point where maintaining it is very difficult, as a result it takes several times longer to write books and missed plot holes discovered later by readers are always a possibility.
sharebut books have their own story now, or should i say the other way around right? if he has any integrity left in him he would break all ties with the series then finish the books and who knows maybe we will see a faithful and uncompromised reboot in the future at least in a miniseries format. to hell with fucking fan service.
shareI can't see how a miniseries can be better than the show seeing how expansive it is as a story and it's characters. I imagine in the mini Ned dies in the first episode and Rob in the third or fourth (a minis has what 6-8 eps?)? That just won't have the same impact as it was in the show. The Starks are the main protagonists here with Ned being the focal point in one whole season. No one expected those deaths and fans were both shocked and emotionally affected by it, killing Ned in the first episode even the second just doesn't carry enough weight emotionally.
shareHe's lost the plot, literally and figuratively. I don't think he'll ever finish the books. There rumors that TWoW will be released, but as it keeps getting pushed back I suspect there are problems with it. And who knows what kind of legal issues there are with the show and his publishers, that could also be a problem.
And since other writers are giving his story the ruthless editing it needs and finishing it up for him, the fact is that more books will never be anything more than a sort of written "directors cut", one that will never generate as much interest or money as the TV show. Why should he bother trying to fix the books.
I don't think he will ever finish them either tbh which is why I am grateful for the show. We will at least know how it all ends even if the journey is different from the writer's intent. I also doubt he can wrap it all up in two books.
shareFrom a Time magazine interview, published 3 days ago:
I am going to finish these books; I think I have that obligation to the world and my readers. It’s the thing I’m going to be remembered for.
Full interview: http://time.com/4791258/game-of-thrones-george-r-r-martin-interview/ share
Great interview.
I'm actually glad that the show didn't do the Lady Stoneheart thing. Although I see Martin's point and it makes sense. But ironically, I feel critical of the Lady Stoneheart story for the same reason Martin felt critical about Gandalf; as he said, it feels like a cheat. And not just her, but Beric and Jon Snow (and the Hound too, who didn't actually die but we were led to believe he did, but then he didn't); all these people dying and then coming back, it kind of cheapens the deaths in the series, in my opinion, makes it not as final and therefore not as powerful. Part of me is half-expecting Stannis to show up again. But I see Martin's point too, and I feel a bit better about Lady Stoneheart now that i've read his explanation for it.
In a show with so many fantasy elements and magic, the resurrections don't bother me. I feel like resurrection would only cheapen the deaths if 1.) resurrection was easy to do and 2.) there were no consequences to the procedure. Its been made clear that resurrection means that the person isn't entirely the same when they come back. Same goes for Gandalf, he was a different person when he came back. I also really like what was implied when Jon Snow came back. He said he saw nothing on the other side. It insinuates that there are no gods and that magic is just a fact of the world. This brings up a lot of complicated philosophical questions for the characters.
I think the Stoneheart storyline would have been interesting to explore in the series for the same reasons. And it would have made for another complication in the dynamic between Brienne and Jaime.
I would love to see a resurrected Stannis but unfortunately I think the only way he is coming back is as a wight in the Army of the Dead.
shareIt would be very interesting to see what he would do with the series now that it's completely fucked. Talk about a contrast to what they've done since. Hopefully he would redeem the story and not screw it up like they did when he wasn't there.
shareThe show drifted from Martin on a fundamental level when it caved to the pressure of social justice warriors. Martin is a bit of a depraved maniac, and seeing his creation on television attacked and mutilated by the masses has all but stolen his muse.
shareYou Americans are obsessed with sjws, that's all you talk about.
shareFeeling victimized by imaginary enemies is the American national pastime. Communists, Muslims, Chinese, Russians, "SJWs". There's always someone lurking in the shadows to destroy the "American way of life". Americans can't seem to live without it.
shareNot to mention pedophilia, they're obsessed with them and see it everywhere even when none are.
You should watch Witch Hunt, very scary but a very good documentary on innocent people accused, indicted, and imprisoned for decades for something they didn't do. Reminds me somewhat of In the Name of the Father tbh.
Well it's such a good description of what happened. Martin wrote a story about patriarchy and violence and over a few seasons HBO completely shifted the focus and left him with no idea how to move forward. He hasn't even written stannis' fate yet.
shareHave you read the books? The House families are patriarchal except for Martells but GRRM writes strong women characters like James Cameron and Ridley Scott. Just because it's set in the past doesn't mean there weren't strong women, even back then:
- Dany Targaryan
- Catelyn Stark
- Cersei Lannister
- Arya Stark
- Maron Greyjoy
- the Red Woman
- Lyanna Stark
- Brianna
- and I think he is leading Sansa to be a stronger character too
If you think strong women characters after new (when did sjw start anyway? Before got?), check out Titanic, T2, Gladiator, Alien franchise, and many films from the 20s-40s. If was the 50s cinema that weakened women characters and the 60s that made them mere sex objects.
Ok well why do you think Martin has completely lost the story
shareThe first book was very concise and focused with the main characters in 3 locations. But by the second book he has expanded the plot where each of the remaining characters like the Starks start to have their own individual journey, this of course makes the story bigger, longer. With each book and journey of each of the central characters, they meet new characters which GRMM also focuses on, and unfortunately it just keeps expanding and expanding with each character going through different paths through different storylines to the point where I think he has problems closing off each sub plot points he has created, with every single new and old characters he has. I think he doesn't know how to tie off all these little plot points anymore so he can get back to the bigger and main storyline, and to bring them all back to the focal point and back in Westeros like in the first book. He simply has painted himself into a corner he doesn't know how to get out of. Well, that's my opinion anyway, maybe I'm wrong. But I've given up hope on him tbh.
shareOr Maybe he has different ideas on some things than hbo and wants to wait until the show ends so there is not contradictory storylines. For instance if he wanted to kill dany or tyrion Brienne Sansa or arya. Not sure at this point hbo would air that. The show has been decidedly against killing off main good guys for three years now. There has definately been a shift. Certain characters on the show have more plot armor than Legolas. Which is a recent development that just so happenstance coincides with Martin putting down his pen.
shareGOT was written long before the show. He would've figured things out before hbo if he wasn't lost. The showrunners more likely know the end game as GRRM must've or may have informed them. They like GRRM simply didn't know the story on how they got there and so took creative license.
sharei disagree. There is no way Martin is going to have the same end game as the show. He is waiting for the show to end so he can do things his way. He wants to make money from both. But there is no way hbo just said "yes sir" to everything Martin suggested or wanted to do, WILL do
shareHBO has been more or less consistent with GRMM's storyline up to the point where the books end, I doubt they will deviate from the perceived end game. Unless he decides to change it at the last mean just for the heck of it or to throw everyone off. And that's just poor and mediocre to not follow through with your initial plan because it destroys everything implied, asserted, introduced, etc ever made within the story.
But I don't think we will convince each other otherwise.
"SJW" is the pejorative term and "woke" or "progressive" are the favorable terms, but whatever side you come down on, it can't be denied that it's a big thing these days.
However, I don't really see how it has affected the show.
If George couldn't be bothered to finish the Winds of Winter and A Dream of Spring, the least he could do is attend the Game of Thrones panel at SDCC like he used to...
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