Sophie Tuner thinks Sansa will side with Littlefinger - Game of Thrones (2011) Discussion

[–] Look_At_Me_Hector 8 years ago

Sophie Turner is probably the biggest troll in the cast and I'd take most of what she says with a grain of salt.

If that was true, it would really make Sansa one of the saddest and dumbest characters on the show. It would mean that she's apparently desperate enough to capitulate to Littlefinger's creepy desires in order to get power.

I got a good mind to join a club and beat you over the head with it.

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[–] tanstaafl74 8 years ago

In the grand scope of this plot do you honestly think that would be so far fetched? What has Sansa ever done that was noble or honorable? Nothing at all. She's survived. And that's admirable. But that's all she's done. Survive.

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[–] CheruthCutestory 8 years ago

What has Sansa ever done that was noble or honorable?

She risked being beaten or worse by Joffrey to save Dontos's life.

She risked having to marry Joffrey herself by warning Olenna and Margaery that Joffrey was a monster knowing she could back out. (In the book she agonizes over the guilt of letting Margaery marry that monster.)

During Blackwater she kept the terrified women active and engaged by singing songs and praying to keep them from being scared. Even as Cersei was telling her how she'd be raped.

Even when terrified she sang the Hound a song and held him as he cried.

In literally the last episode she gave up her entire birth right to Jon (telling him he could have the Lord's bedroom, smiling up at him when he looks at her for confirmation that it was OK to accept KITN.) If she was conflicted or jealous that just makes her more honorable. Because she did the right thing rather than the thing she wants.

If we count the books she risked being caught by planning her escape from KL with Dontos.

From one person who has killed dogs before to another I know it's tough.

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[–] tanstaafl74 8 years ago

Honest question: Do you think she's one of the best characters in the books?

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[–] CheruthCutestory 8 years ago

Yes.

From one person who has killed dogs before to another I know it's tough.

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[–] tanstaafl74 8 years ago

Interesting. She's literally a stump in the books. Does nothing at all for three entire books. In the first book she is quite possibly the stupidest character of any book I've ever read. By book four though she's much better.

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[–] Look_At_Me_Hector 8 years ago

It sounds like you're describing character development, which Sansa goes through in the books.

I got a good mind to join a club and beat you over the head with it.

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[–] tanstaafl74 8 years ago

Yup. That sounds about right.

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[–] CheruthCutestory 8 years ago

I like character progression. Not starting out perfect and continuing to be.

And she's the best in the second and third book because she's so perceptive. Sansa processes everything going on around her. You get more information about their world and the people in it in her chapters than anyone. Even in the first book she's the one to point out that Joffrey wasn't Robert's son to Ned. (And she knew Arya wasn't really going to dancing lessons.) She didn't understand the implications but she's always been so perceptive.

I also love the Jon and Sansa parallels. With him going from bastard to Lord (Commander) to would be King (when the letter is found). And her going from would be Queen, to Lady in her own right (as Tyrion's bride), to bastard. And, best of all, I love that she acknowledges the parallel. She's not oblivious. She thinks about how sweet it would be to see him and how she's a bastard too now. I love that her bastard is based largely on Jon's personality (Alayne would hate to dance, as Jon does, Alayne is the same age Jon was last Sansa saw him, Alayne is more serious and brooding). And how they are the most similar siblings. He's closer to Arya because he respects how Arya eschews roles and is defiant. But he never eschews his role and he's the opposite of defient. He plans on living as a good bastard should (go to the Watch) just as Sansa plans on living according to the role given to her.

I love her parallel with Arya. As Arya struggles to become no one, Sansa seemingly easily slips on an entirely new persona. But actually struggles with it. Basing it on her family. And that she, like Arya, has the moment where she bitterly thinks "I'm not your daughter. I'm Sansa Stark of Winterfell."

I love that she fits a traditional role of a woman. Not that I think every female character should. But it's nice to have some. And shows how women in a such a society can be strong and survive without unrealistically eschewing all norms. I'm a history buff and Sansa is one of the few female character that have clear historical parallels.

I love that like her father she tries to diligently to fill the role she's been given in society. But a lady's role is different from a lord's.

I love that even as she suffers indignity after indignity (and Joffrey strips and beats her in front of everyone every single time Robb wins in the books) she finds it in her to worry about Margaery being stuck with Joffrey because she's been so nice to her, worry about Dontos, worry about Tommen getting his chance to faux joust, worries about the Hound. I love that she includes Tyrion in her prayers (but not Joffrey or Cersei).

She has a subtle character arc. People aren't constantly telling you how great and special she is. Her chapters tell you a lot about their world.

From one person who has killed dogs before to another I know it's tough.

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[–] tanstaafl74 8 years ago

We must have read different books. Her descriptions of what are going on around her aren't any better than Jon's or Arya's and they're way, WAY below Tyrion's in terms of noticing things.

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[–] CheruthCutestory 8 years ago

What are you talking about? Tyrion is the worst about it. He has no idea what's going on under his own nose half the time.

For instance, Sansa's entire plotting with someone to escape him completely escapes his notice. He's often misreading situations (like the passion with which Dorne hates the Lannisters, totally dismissing Olenna.)

His views are witty and he's smart. But he isn't nearly as perceptive at processing everything happening around him. He's much more enamored with his own intellect to credit other people to the degree he should.

[i]From one person who has killed dogs before to another I know it's tough. [/i}

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[–] tanstaafl74 8 years ago

Wat? Seriously? He recognizes that vast majority of the plots going on, but has problems deciding where his loyalties lay. It's a great story. In his head you hear his disgust of what's going on, but he still goes along because he's a Lannister. I loved how he was written.

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[–] CheruthCutestory 8 years ago

I like how he is written too. Before book 4 when he become a serial rapist.

But his running commentary is completely different from what I'm talking about. Sansa isn't ingeniously foiling every plot in her mind. I never suggested that. But she takes in everything. She notices everything. And as LF teaches her to parse that information better it becomes more active.

Tyrion thinks he does and doesn't realize all he misses.

From one person who has killed dogs before to another I know it's tough.

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[–] tanstaafl74 8 years ago

Oh I agree. I predicted after book 2 came out that she would be the one that has to take LF down because she is learning the game by leaps and bounds. My point was that she wasn't any more descriptive or attentive than anyone else. She was however, getting quite the education on how to screw people with their own schemes.

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[–] Elliot_Alderson 8 years ago

While I wouldn't fully agree with this, he does think he knows what's going around him all the time, and that ofttimes result in dire consequences for himself and those who surround him.

I'm only supposed to be your prophet. You're supposed to be my God.

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[–] CheruthCutestory 8 years ago

Hey, you have an awful face but seem relatively knowledgeable. Do you remember the pre-season 5 ST interviews about how great Sansa would be?

From one person who has killed dogs before to another I know it's tough.

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[–] spellbounce 8 years ago

^^^ what CheruthCutestory said.

Sansa may not be well known for her valor, but to say she's never done anything good or selfless is a ridiculous indictment.

I despise all weavers of the black arts...speaking of which can you pass the gravy - Korgoth

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[–] spellbounce 8 years ago

I always felt she wasn't being 100% upfront with Jon precisely because she has some unresolved feelings towards his role as the head of house Stark and the King in the North.

Sansa definitely seems more prower hungry than before and I see no reason why she would want to play second fiddle to anyone.

I'm not quite sure why so many people refuse to allow for any possibility of Sansa kind of screwing Jon over in the future. To me it seems entirely possible.

I despise all weavers of the black arts...speaking of which can you pass the gravy - Korgoth

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[–] tanstaafl74 8 years ago

Quite a few people think she's going to be the overall hero of the story. It defies belief. People need to think with their main head more often.

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[–] CheruthCutestory 8 years ago

Links to people who think she's the overall hero?

I've been in the fandom for a long time and I can't think of one time Sansa has genuinely (not jokingly) been put forward as a candidate for Azor Ahai or the PTWP.

If you mean people who think she should be Queen in the North that isn't the hero. The story isn't about that.

From one person who has killed dogs before to another I know it's tough.

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[–] bham_man34 8 years ago

It's too late now unless Sansa and Lf plan on killing Jon and all of his supporters. Lf would go that far but Sansa wouldn't. She'll just act petulant and depressed for a while and that's it.

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[–] tanstaafl74 8 years ago

It's not too late for anything. Have you not been watching this show? KL has had like six people on the throne if you count Cersei's stint as regent and her on it now as two. And LF will never run out of plots.

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[–] bham_man34 8 years ago

10 episodes left. It ain't gonna happen. Jon just united the North again. A Sansa/Lf alliance that eliminated Jon would disunite the North. There's no time for that, now.

The only scenario I see possibly playing out is for Sansa to pretend to support LF, leading him to his doom and getting vengeance for Ramsay and also what LF did to Ned.

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[–] tanstaafl74 8 years ago

Honestly, what I think may happen is that Jon may head that off by giving Sansa what she wants and what he thinks she deserves. Being King in the north means nothing about being lord of Winterfel. He could give Winterfel to her making her lady of Winterfel, yet remain King in the North. That may be wishful thinking though.

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[–] bham_man34 8 years ago

But how does that help Lf? He's not needed for that to happen and it would get him nowhere.

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[–] tanstaafl74 8 years ago

That's kinda the point. I think we see LF finally defeated. Perhaps Sansa does it on her own or Jon and Sansa do it together. That part doesn't matter. What I'm saying is I believe (or hope rather) that Jon will do something that will convince Sansa that family is where her loyalty should be.

Also, I kinda hope the Hound is in on it. Since he knows that LF betrayed Ned. That could also be a reason that Sansa chooses not to join his plots, or if she's already joined his plots to leave them behind.

And there are 13 episodes left, not 10.

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[–] bham_man34 8 years ago

The Hound and Arya joining up with Jon and Sansa would be great. I wou;d love to see that arrogant look wiped off Lf's face when he first saw The Hound enter Winterfell.

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[–] tanstaafl74 8 years ago

Oh, that would be nice, wouldn't it?

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[–] Zlocey 8 years ago

What she deserves? I really think people overestimate her part in all this. Littlefinger contacted her. He was the one who arranged for the army and all she had to do was say yes...and then keep it from Jon, of course. What else has she done except be used by various people?

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[–] tanstaafl74 8 years ago

Jon himself admits that she saved them. I don't think she's as important as some people do, but to deny that seems like sour grapes.

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[–] Zlocey 8 years ago

At some point, we have to look at the writing. I find it hard to believe that no one asked her WHY she didn't tell Jon or, more importantly, why they weren't mad about the fact that she set them up as bait. Maybe Jon could look the other way but why would Tormund and Davos? So, yeah, Jon "thanked" her but it made no sense. Yes, she played a part but she did things that hurt them just as much as they helped and her "help" was really more Littlefinger than Sansa.

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[–] tanstaafl74 8 years ago

Did you miss the part where she apologized for not telling him and he already knew it was because she didn't trust him? Goes on to talk about how they have to trust each other, etc. etc.

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[–] Zlocey 8 years ago

I recall her apologizing and him saying they need to trust each other. It is that middle part that was simply not there. To date, she has never given an explanation for not telling him. Apologizing and having JON say they need to trust each other is not an explanation for her behavior. It is Jon telling her that he is willing to let it go so they can move forward.

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[–] Marendil 8 years ago

I recall her apologizing and him saying they need to trust each other. It is that middle part that was simply not there. To date, she has never given an explanation for not telling him. Apologizing and having JON say they need to trust each other is not an explanation for her behavior. It is Jon telling her that he is willing to let it go so they can move forward.

I got the impression Jon accepted that Littlefinger had sold Sansa to the Boltons and thus she didn't trust Baelish.

'Honi soit qui mal y pense'

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[–] Zlocey 8 years ago

How is that an explanation for not telling Jon? He asked if she trusts him...as in now....and she said she doesn't. But that really has nothing to do with keeping things from Jon. If she was unsure that the army would show, she tells Jon anyway and lets him decide what to do. She let him go in blind. Not trusting Littlefinger is not an excuse for screwing over someone you say you do trust.

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[–] Marendil 8 years ago

How is that an explanation for not telling Jon? He asked if she trusts him...as in now....and she said she doesn't. But that really has nothing to do with keeping things from Jon. If she was unsure that the army would show, she tells Jon anyway and lets him decide what to do. She let him go in blind. Not trusting Littlefinger is not an excuse for screwing over someone you say you do trust.

She didn't screw him over, she withheld information she thought unreliable because she thought the source was not trustworthy and she thought she was more equipped to deal with Littlefinger than Jon, Davos or Tormund. Jon may have been a little miffed, which is why he said that about trust between them, but objectively Sansa was responsible for bailing his army out of the deathtrap he'd led it into so on the whole he really owes her one.

'Honi soit qui mal y pense'

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[–] Zlocey 8 years ago

Let's just face the fact that we will not agree about this.

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[–] ChazzJazz 8 years ago

Actually, Sansa told Jon NOT to attack Winterfell, coz he had so little number, and that Bolton was just playing him.

She didnt actually say her backup plan though...

http://myimpressionz.tk

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[–] Zlocey 8 years ago

First she talked him into it despite the numbers. Then she wanted him to wait. Hmmm....I wonder why? Could it have been so that the army of the Vale had more time to get there? People blame Jon for not waiting but he didn't know there was a reason to wait. As far as he was concerned, what they had was all they were going to have and things would only get worse the longer they waited. She should have told him.

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[–] ChazzJazz 8 years ago

LOL NO, Sansa just wanted it to happen that the Knights of Vale just happened by Winterfell instead of telling Jon she had asked for Baelish to come.

Which would have weakened the Starks in the North anyways, but it had to have happen...

http://myimpressionz.tk

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[–] Marendil 8 years ago

First she talked him into it despite the numbers. Then she wanted him to wait. Hmmm....I wonder why? Could it have been so that the army of the Vale had more time to get there? People blame Jon for not waiting but he didn't know there was a reason to wait. As far as he was concerned, what they had was all they were going to have and things would only get worse the longer they waited. She should have told him.

Sansa couldn't be certain which side Baelish would take, the Starks, the Boltons or his own. She held out until she was convinced there was no hope unless she took that chance.

'Honi soit qui mal y pense'

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[–] ChazzJazz 8 years ago

So what did Sansa promise LittleFinger to save Jon? ;)

It would be poor investment to just save Jon and LF is NOT King of the North

http://myimpressionz.tk

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[–] tanstaafl74 8 years ago

She didn't promise him anything, she requested his aid and he gave it. Probably in hopes of earning her trust for the future. And I'm not just guessing here, you can read the note she was writing to him. Google it.

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[–] ChazzJazz 8 years ago

yes, but what would LittleFinger demand of Sansa on their ride together to Winterfell? :P

Marry me or Jon dies

;)

http://myimpressionz.tk

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[–] Marendil 8 years ago

So what did Sansa promise LittleFinger to save Jon? ;)

Nothing, he did it out of the goodness of his heart and to rectify his grievous gross error with Ramsay.

See? It doesn't sound right, does it? Not for Littlefinger at least. Thus why would she be able to expect that? She couldn't.

It would be poor investment to just save Jon and LF is NOT King of the North

It looks like Littlefinger really does want Sansa as his queen, so perhaps that was just a down payment on his wedding gift for her.

I think Sansa will probably go back to working with Littlefinger and Jon will protest, and that may be the source of conflict.

'Honi soit qui mal y pense'

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[–] tanstaafl74 8 years ago

Oh, he does want to be with Sansa. He has transferred the love he had for Catelynn fully to her. It's kinda creepy.

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[–] Zlocey 8 years ago

Well, that was awfully nice of Sansa! Protecting Jon and his army like that by letting them go into battle not knowing that help might be on the way! The problem isn't that she held off on sending the letter. The problem is that she didn't tell Jon after she sent the letter. You are giving an explanation for her not trusting Littlefinger when the question is why she didn't trust Jon. If, of course, that is why she didn't tell him. Could be that trusting Jon wasn't really the issue.

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[–] Marendil 8 years ago

Well, that was awfully nice of Sansa! Protecting Jon and his army like that by letting them go into battle not knowing that help might be on the way!

She didn't know if the Knights of the Vale were there to 'help' or not. She also didn't know (for certain) Jon would lead his army straight into a trap, she tried to warn him about that but he wasn't prepared for Ramsay just like she thought and fell right into his trap.

The problem is that she didn't tell Jon after she sent the letter. You are giving an explanation for her not trusting Littlefinger when the question is why she didn't trust Jon. If, of course, that is why she didn't tell him. Could be that trusting Jon wasn't really the issue.

It was a wing and a prayer, she doesn't know if Littlefinger is really there to help her and Jon at all. She knows he has designs on the North, she participated in a plot with him last season.

If Littlefinger really wanted the North, that battle ends with the Knights of the Vale massacring everyone, Boltons, Starks, Wildlings--everyone. She didn't know (and after being fed to Ramsay rather doubted) that Littlefinger wanted her more than taking the North in one fell swoop.

'Honi soit qui mal y pense'

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[–] Zlocey 8 years ago

See above.

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[–] purple_lemon 8 years ago

Yes if Sansa turns evil it means that Starkbowl is on...!

The Players of The Game are the scum of the earth.

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[–] ChazzJazz 8 years ago

yes, evil women are evil :P

Sansa doesnt think of Jon as a Stark....

http://myimpressionz.tk

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[–] HeavyHorseArcher 8 years ago

It's not so much that. She went from childish and naive to powerless and aware.

She's currently a little bit shrewd and if you believe the title of the thread - she's going to become power hungry.

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[–] smithjgs 8 years ago

That's not true.

Act Your Age, Not Your Shoe Size

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[–] webmiss88 8 years ago

Gosh, I hope not. If she sided with Littlefinger, it would undo so much character development. I think if Jon listens to her and seeks/uses her counsel, instead of dismissing her; she'll stay on Jon's side. She told him she recognizes him as a Stark, apologized for being a brat when they were kids, and seemed pleased when the Northern families swore loyalty to Jon and declared him King of the North.

I'm banking she's going to kill Littlefinger, rather than side with him.

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[–] Jonxsansa 8 years ago

Webmiss that's exactly what she will do to LF take him out she loathes him for what he did to her

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[–] Jonxsansa 8 years ago

I take everything actors say about their characters with grain of salt kit Harrington was lying for an entire year he was killed off actors lie in order to create suspense and interest in the show and their characters honestly after watching episode 10 and everything that was said between Jon and Sansa and what Sansa specifically said about LF "only a fool would trust him "if anyone thinks she will betray Jon and side with LF hasn't been paying attention to the show or can't understand it

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[–] Hierarch_Hemmelfart 8 years ago

Nope.

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